Belief, existence and God and category errors

We as humans cannot verify that HaShem exists, at least I cannot. However, somehow I do know He does. Just as I know consciousness exists. If consciousness did not exist then I would not be struggling with this question....I would not have a thought process to do it with. Not that I seem to have all that much as it is. What is it that you believe? We know you do not believe in HaShem's continued existance...fine what do you believe. Was He here at one time and left, did He ever exisit for you, is He a tansient god, What. I know that at one time you tried to explain your faith, but that old post seems to have vanished or I would have reread it. Shalom~Adoniah

I confess I'm confused. Can you say it in simpler terms, or are you one of the intelligentsia who have a hard time lowering your standards? People will call my faith in the existence of God as blind acceptance, but what my mind reasons through the working of my senses tells me that there has to be God. When science shows how complex and involved creation is, my reasoning tells me there had to have been intelligence behind creation. Creation is the authority that convinces me that God exists.

Just because we can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I can't see the wind, but I can see the results when the wind blows. I can't see gravity, but I see the results of gravity. I can't see God the way I see your horse, but I can see the evidence of God and the more science digs the more I see God.

While consciousness cannot be demonstrated directly, there are manifestations of its presence or existence -- yes, I know, not exactly the same thing in this context -- which lead us to believe that a person may be conscious at one point in time and not conscious at another. When it comes to God, it is difficult, if not impossible, to say God manifests in physical form or, even, in a nonphysical but traceable form. That is to say, given a large enough sample, 'acts of God' are indistinguishable from non-related coincidences. If I take your meaning, do you argue that God only exists outside the spatial/temporal universe, that He/She/It is an abstraction existing entirely outside human experience?

God is the keyowner and religion is the key. Of course the one fitting the keyhole which enables you to get out of the dark room. Find the key first you'll get enlightened.

So.. What is your point? What are the category errors? I understand that atheists need proof that there is a god, but according to your last comment, that's not your point. Actually, I see that you have no point. Yes, we could point to that think and identify it as a horse. Why? Because society has taught you that it's a horse by "creating" language. If society has labeled it as a dog, there would be no proof that it's a horse. Someone named it a horse, wrote that down. So you believe it's a horse. Millions of years from now, if horses are extinct, based on the text of books and stories that have been told, people will still believe it's a horse. As for consciousness, someone chose a label for it. Consciousness just IS.. Before it has a name, it was nothing. Someone labeled it, just like someone labeled time and space. Nothingness. What would be it be without a label? Nothing. Someone named it, wrote it down, therefore you believe it is consciousness. God, like time, space, and consciousness, cannot be verified without a label. God is spirit. Before someone named it? It was nothing. But just like time, and consciousness, it was always there. Who created it? Who knows. It just is. Someone chose to call it God. Jesus came to confirm the existence of this ominpotent spirit. He satisfied the people that "Jesus" existed. "Jesus" was supposedly not his original name, but what difference does his name make? How do we know he existed? Because someone wrote it down. Jesus is the confirmation of "God." There are plently of things that you believe in, that you will never see. Just like people will still believe in your horse when it's extinct.

underdekay I am confused with your writings" as a believer, I didn't believe God exist". What is a believer for? will you enlighten me? It seems that you only believe in things that you can see, exist. Is that right? You don't see God's proof of existence, so does God never exist to you, just clarifying. So , if I ask you if you have ever seen your brain , is it dekaying? LOL.

Are you saying that there needs to be some kind of proof of the possibility of God? Something people can see and touch?

You are defining the terms by which you judge existence. Using physical senses which are great in a physical world,come up short spiritually. Evidence of the spiritual in a physical world becomes more challenging when you want physical evidence. Consciousness exists only because those who have it know it. God exists to those who have had spiritual contact with God. Proof can never be given for God. It must be discovered. The only one who can do that is the one who seeks to discover it.