You Should Have to Pay the Same Tax Rate You Demand From Others!
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
November 8, 2010 12:01am CST
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." Alexander Tytler
This quote shows the weakness of direct democracy and the meaning behind it is one of the reasons the Founding Fathers were careful to create a Representative Republic backed by a Constitution. They knew that there must be safeguards in place against the class warfare that could destroy the nation they built.
The concept is simple. If you allow some people to demand the government pay them money, out of the pockets of others, there will come a day when that is the only way they want to live.
The entire graduated tax system is based on this sort of coveting and bigotry. It fantasizes that those with more owe a higher rate to society than those with less... but have the least say on what is done with it.
The simple, yet effetive, remedy to this kind of legalized lynching is this simple declaration...
You Should Have to Pay the Same Tax Rate You Demand From Others!
It's funny how many people who claim to love "equality" and "fairness" reject it. That's because their goal are more about the government lining the pockets of some, at the expense of others.
3 people like this
5 responses
@laglen (19759)
• United States
8 Nov 10
I whole heartedly support a flat tax. Abolish all other taxes and everybody pays the same percentage across the board. This would make it fair, everybody with a dollar in their pocket will be paying in. Lets stop targeting a certain group and make it fair (spoken from a poor person).
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
8 Nov 10
Exactly, Laglen! The "graduated" tax system targets groups of people. It is discrimination.
1 person likes this
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
8 Nov 10
Here is one of my favorites
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."--Thomas Jefferson
I laugh (or want to cry) when people say...we are a democracy. We are NOT a democracy...we were NEVER set up to be a democracy and we should never be a democracy.
WHY? Because of this issue and others like it. The founding fathers were not stupid. They had seen and learned about the rise and falls of empires and nations. They tried to steer us away from the pit falls and dangers other countries in their long histories had fallen into. They learned from the mistakes those countries made....why can't we remember that and learn from it too?
My other favorite one:
"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." George Santayana
Not just OUR history either. But the world's history. How many people know why Rome fell? Or how the USSR failed (economicly). Or how various governments through out time did things and what it caused (good or bad).
Not many. It is not taught in school much anymore and most people don't bother to learn it on their own.
So we keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
All of this reaching into other people's pockets is not going to end well. Why? Because sooner or later you run out of other people's money. Then what do you do? You have a society that is used to getting things for "free" and gets ticked off when they have to work for things again. A bankrupt government and a whole society that can't take care of themselves is what you get.
Want to see how a political policy is going to work? Well more than likely it has been done by some country in the past...go see how it worked out for them...not just for a few years...but see how it worked out for them long term and see what good and bad effects it brought about.
1 person likes this
@HawaiiGopher (1009)
• Belgium
8 Nov 10
Doesn't that completely disregard the aspect of proportions? I'm sure you've heard the example before: a billionaire giving half his money for taxes would still be living a fantastic life while a poor man would be living near starvation. What are your thoughts on that? Do you not agree that percentages can be misleading?
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
8 Nov 10
I'm saying that the Golden Rule should apply here. If the poor man is so jealous and hateful that he can't stand to see rich people keep their money, then he should be paying the same rate (not the same amount) he demands of the rich guy.
What right does any of us have to demand something from others we aren't willing to do ourselves?
You can afford to pay half your income in taxes, so (by your logic) you should have to!
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
8 Nov 10
I do hear what you're saying, and even agree to a point. However, this thread isn't so much about any amount that is brought into the federal coffers, it's more about people fleecing "the rich" for their own gain.
They want what the other guy has, and want to use the force of government to get it.
To them it isn't about taxes, its' about "getting theirs", even if it isn't.
@HawaiiGopher (1009)
• Belgium
8 Nov 10
I completely agree with your underlying principal: you shouldn't be asking others to pay what you would not be willing to pay. However, I don't think it's out of hate that people are asking for higher taxes on the rich, but rather pragmatism. Taking 30% off one billionaire will bring back a larger amount of money, and have lesser consequences on that individual, than if you took 30% off of someone living on minimum wage. Again, the common example used, "What happens if taxes take away half ($500 million) from a billionaire? He won't be able to buy those extra Ferraris he wanted. What happens if taxes take away half ($600) from a minimum wager? He won't be able to buy the food he needs to live." These are drastic examples, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say. As I said before, it's all about proportion. A person on minimum wage simply can't afford to pay half of his income in taxes. Can we say the same for a billionaire?

@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
8 Nov 10
I think what I just said, that the people who demand a higher tax rate from someone else, should have to pay that rate. That way no one will demand a higher rate than they are willing to pay. It's simply The Golden Rule applied to taxation.
When we pay any other tax, no one asks how much we make.. in fact, it's none of the government's business how much we make. The foolish and bigoted "graduated" tax system gives government an excuse to know our incomes.
When we buy things, the merchant doesn't add taxes depending on our incomes, it is the same for all.. rich or poor.
As far as which non graduated form of taxation is the best? I have no idea. I like the idea of a national sales tax, but that has its drawbacks too. I would like to see a flat tax, but I'd also like it to start at a certain income level (say $50,000), but there are valid arguments against that too.
No system of taxation is based on jealousy, bigotry and inequality as the completely hateful system we have now. It is nothing more than legalized lynching.
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
8 Nov 10
Right, because paying taxes is totally like being dragged out of your house and hung by a mob!
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
8 Nov 10
Nice mellow dramatic imagery, but being dragged out of your house and hanged by a mob is an example of lynching, not the definition.
The only difference between what you are describing and the jealousy and envy behind the "graduated" tax system is the angry mob hides behind politicians instead of getting their hands dirty themselves.
It's hilarious how people who claim to be about "equality" somehow forget that when they have their greedy eyes on someone else's money.
@sid556 (30953)
• United States
8 Nov 10
So would it not be fair to pay a certain percentage of ones income? for example (and this is seriously just an example) 10% of income goes to taxes. If you earn more, of course you pay more but it is still 10%. Like the sales taxes, the more you buy, the more sales taxes you as an individual are going to be paying but it is still the same sales tax as everyone else. It would hurt a lot of people if they were to come up with a dollar amount that everyone must pay regardless of income. There a weeks that I could not afford to part with 10.00 without seriously compromising my family while to others 10.00 is nothing. A person's earnings and ability to pay have to be considered.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
8 Nov 10
Hey Sid!
I'm not talking about what level of taxation is "fair" or not. I'm talking about the ability We the People have to take from those we don't consider "victims" to give to those we do.
1 person likes this
@sid556 (30953)
• United States
8 Nov 10
Oh. I see. Well, I don't have a decent answer for this one then. I am no expert on the tax system. I'm on the lower end of the income bracket. I do see what you are saying here. This is a good discussion, Ted and one I'll be watching in hopes of learning something.
@sid556 (30953)
• United States
8 Nov 10
Oh, I have to add here that I have a couple of very close and very wealthy friends and they would vouch for the fact that I do not feel envious of their money...it is theirs nor do I feel that they owe it to me to help me out. In fact there have been times over the years that I've been in some real tight situations financially. Not only would I not ask for or even hint for their help....I down right refused to take it when offered. I do think there are people that really do need some sort of aid. Still there are a whole lot of people that cry victim that are perfectly capable. I will be looking forward to reading the various responses here.





