Dept of Education - Epic Fail

Education spending - chart on education spending
@Rollo1 (16679)
Boston, Massachusetts
February 14, 2011 7:47pm CST
Though federal spending on education has soared over the past few decades, we literally have nothing to show for it. Student test scores have not improved, the quality of education has not improved. See the chart below. Andrew Coulson of the Cato Institute: "We spent over $151,000 per student sending the graduating class of 2009 through public schools. That is nearly three times as much as we spent on the graduating class of 1970, adjusting for inflation. Despite that massive real spending increase, overall achievement has stagnated or declined, depending on the subject. … We have little to show for the $2 trillion in federal education spending of the past half century. In the face of concerted and unflagging efforts by Congress and the states, public schooling has suffered a massive productivity collapse—it now costs three times as much to provide essentially the same education as we provided in 1970." http://blog.heritage.org/2011/02/14/the-department-of-education-has-failed/ Having two kids go through public schools recently and currently, I think that many things have changed in public schools. For one thing, they have a lot more employees. It used to be teachers, a school nurse, a janitor, and a principal - maybe some clerical help. Nowadays... Well, I once had a meeting with a school physical therapist who was concerned because my 7 year old son didn't skip. After intensive testing, they determined he could skip if shown how, he just never learned to skip before. Silly me, never taught the boy to skip... funny, but I never thought that was necessary. But what was really unnecessary was the extra testing, the extra meetings, the ridiculous spending of money to determine why an otherwise completely normal and healthy seven-year-old boy didn't skip. This is not how education money should be spent. Besides, if they really thought a child had some physical problem, wouldn't recommending he see his pediatrician be enough to solve the problem? If you ask me, cutting back on the DOE could only improve the public schools. Perhaps they would spend less time reading books about global warming and how to save the planet and more time on the three R's - at least in elementary grades. That is when the foundation needs to be laid in the important skills, not the time to be taught about the disappearing rain forest and the crimes of humanity on the environment. Let them grow up a little, and in the meantime, teach them to read.
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7 responses
@dragon54u (31636)
• United States
15 Feb 11
DOE makes no sense. The states pay their taxes and the gov't doles it back out to them for education along with a lot of rules and regulations that if they don't obey their own money will be withheld from them! Curriculum has changed so much. When my kids were in school in the 90's and 2000's I was surprised how little they were taught, especially history. I spent a lot of time supplementing my kids' educations and correcting outright lies the school told them that were told because of political correctness that was just coming into vogue. Plus, some of their methods of teaching math were completely incomprehensible. DOE needs to go, as does the DO Energy and so many other departments.
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@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
15 Feb 11
Part of what I have noticed about the math methods is that it involves a lot of drawing of circles and cubes. They don't drill them on multiplication tables and so they are attempting to do math problems without even having the basic facts memorized. Doing double digit multiplication is a series of boxes and then addition, it's breaking down the numbers by places and individually multiplying them and then adding them... it just takes up more room on the page, it's not more effective. If the money made a difference, you could find a way to justify it. But it's not helping, in fact, I think it's hurting. They find new ways to spend money, but none of them are better ways.
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Feb 11
My kids school probably uses different math methods than yours because what you're describing doesn't sound familiar. but when I was a kid we used the cubes and I found them incredibly helpful. Math as taught is full of abstract concepts and some kids need that visual and physical reinforcement about what the numbers actually stand for. Drills just teach kids to memorize. I'm taking college algebra right now (returning late) and I still find word problems easier than straight number problems because its easier for me to think of things rather than the abstract numbers. I agree though, that the way the money is handled is a big part of the problem. I'm just think that isn't going to change without major changes to the system and in the meantime kids are getting shafted by cuts on the basis of "the system sucks and they should use their money better." They should but they aren't and its kids education that's' suffering not the administrators that cause the problems.
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@dragon54u (31636)
• United States
15 Feb 11
They made the math way more complicated than it needed to be, extra steps that made no sense even in developing critical thinking. And my kids came in on the tail end of the teaching method called World or something where they did not teach phonics but memorization of words. Madness!!! I insisted on the lone teacher that refused to teach that way--how did she get away with that?!--and helped them learn their phonics. They are both great readers while most of their former classmates hate reading and can barely get through the likes of an office memo and they can't spell, either.
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@Shellyann36 (11385)
• United States
15 Feb 11
The situation with your child is completely silly in my opinion. I agree, send them to the doctor and get it over with. As far as the staffing goes... well living in a district where schools are way over crowded, extra staffing is a good thing. Another point of view also is that back in my day they did have fewer staff but the staff could discipline the children... all of the kids were afraid of getting their behind spanked by the principle or their hands popped by the teacher with the ruler. These days if a kid is looked at wrong it is an automatic lawsuit. It is hard to judge the elementary level teachings because I do not have any children in that grade level right now. I am speaking with knowledge of junior high and high school. I know that the funding in our state is going to drop quite a bit for next year. My 17 year old come home talking about their latest assembly. They are now selling candy bars and they will have several more fundraisers this year due to the lack of funding.
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@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
15 Feb 11
I agree, there is no chance of discipline in the schools, and even though they didn't employ any corporal punishment when I was in school there was more respect for the authority of teachers and getting sent to the principal still made one worried enough to behave. But in those days, the parents would be called and they would punish the kid at home, too. They didn't fund the schools to anywhere near the amount they do now and yet in those days we were given paper, pencils, composition books and other supplies. They don't even do that anymore. Kids get a list of things to buy for school. And even with the multiple fundraisers, they still have to charge fees for kids who want to play sports. If we are spending three times more per child than we did 40 years ago, why are the kids getting so much less than they did then?
@Shellyann36 (11385)
• United States
19 Feb 11
I think alot of spending goes to technology these days as well. My youngest sister in high school gets to bring home a laptop from school to complete her work on. I know of 2 of the surrounding counties (excluding ours) doing this. Each year the students are issued a laptop at the beginning of the school year. The thought process behind this was to help poor families who did not have the internet. Each laptop is net capable and wifi ready. The problem with that is that most of the students live so far out in the rural areas that there is no signal and they cannot get on the internet anyway. Several of my sister's classes had mandatory homework/project assignments to be completed online only. In retrospect the computers cost a pretty penny but they are not 100% accessible for the poor rural student who has to use the internet to get their homework done. Nine times out of ten the student would have to stay after school to complete these assignments and then the parents would be responsible for picking them up. It is a sad situation. Mismanagement of funds by the government is what it boils down to!
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
15 Feb 11
It seems to me that every other year a new method of teaching comes out and it must be tried. The schools need to stick to the tried and true methods. They clam that the old way is out dated but as I see it we are falling further and further behind. More money isn't going to change the fact that kids are not really being taught to read write and do basic math. My granddaughter were doing their home work last night and we were visiting about how one of them got almost straight A's. Her teachers give a test then has the kids go back and correct their answers and that is the grade the get. This child admitted that she often had f's and d's. She is a freshman to. I was told that this went on in all her grades. I'm reading all over the net about students cheating as well as teachers helping them to cheat. Since Bushes no child left behind education has gotten worse. Schools look for funding based test scores so teach for the tests. Parents and grandparents Event hose people with out children in school need to start attending board meeting and make the board realize we want our kids to be really educated before they are sent on to the next level.
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
15 Feb 11
Testing is a good idea and having The kids going back and correct their answer is good too but they should have the first grade before going back.
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
15 Feb 11
Testing sounded like a good idea because they had kids graduating without being able to read. But it began to be the way schools and teachers were evaluated. Teachers don't want to lose raises so they teach the test. It is time to return to teaching the basics.
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@laglen (19759)
• United States
15 Feb 11
Throwing bad money after good is NOT the answer. They need to stop trying to be parents and try being educators. I think every person that does not have direct contact with kids should be cut. Administration should be the principal - only. No school district admin, that is just crap. Dept of Ed should be dismantled and I agree, they need to stop trying to indoctrinate our kids and start teaching the basics. How is it that somebody can graduate form high school and not know how to read, or count back change or understand that we are not a democracy?
@laglen (19759)
• United States
16 Feb 11
I agree with you. This is why it is so hard to have any kind of control in the class rooms. There isnt a whole lot being done. I agree that this "new way" confuses the kids, but I believe it confuses the teachers as well. Why am I here?
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
15 Feb 11
"They need to stop trying to be parents and try being educators. " Amen. They are trying to be everything to the children, but that's not their job. Thank goodness for teachers who notice a child in trouble and alert someone to their plight or help the kid out in ways others might not, but that's not the majority of kids. The schools do, however, behave as if the majority of kids need another set of parents. They don't. They need teachers. The expectations must be clear. Often the expectations are fluid, and this leaves children confused. I think we were better off when we actually feared the teacher's wrath. Nowadays, there are no consequences for failure.
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@curtangel (108)
• United States
15 Feb 11
I think way too much time is spent on trying to pass the achievement tests than achievement. I remember when I was in a not-so-good school we would spend days taking practice tests, learning how to guess properly - ridiculous things. Passing those tests were more important than learning. That was time that could and should have been spent better. Which is better to actually learn or to pass a test? We could argue about whether tests actually measure learning (I do well on tests in general - I even tested into MENSA, but some intelligent people just can't do tests). The money is not distributed equally - I've been at schools with money to burn that had televisions in each room and schools that seemed to be held together with spit and pure will. My daughters are currently in a good quality school with art and music programs. (music and art programs, by the way, have been proven to increase math skills because they give the children a real life situation in which math is needed as opposed to the abstract concepts currently taught as one of the "three r's") I'm scared of the time when we might have to move to a lower quality school that doesn't have those things. The most ridiculous thing I've seen at a public school is a thing called RAZKids. My daughters are both voracious and excellent readers and this horrible horrible reading program forced them to - look at a story while the narrator slowly read it, read it, read it again and finally take a test about the story. If I were a kid I would have been reading my college level book while flipping through the screens. While there are some slower readers who probably benefited from this program forcing ALL kids to use it certainly turned more readers off than on. I think the example you give with your son is a little silly - and I do think that where the money is going needs to be looked at carefully. I'm sure there is fat that could be cut without cutting vital programs. But... $150,000 a student - is that over the entire time in school or just one year? Based on the phrasing (the graduating class of 2009), I would guess over the entire time at school. That's actually fairly inexpensive when you consider the cost of 4 years at a university. Finally, I don't fully agree with you about not teaching children about global warming. After all, a kid reading a book about global warming is reading isn't he? Isn't that one of the three R's? Perhaps your son's school is different but I've never noticed what I would consider unnecessarily large amount of attention to global warming and saving the earth. Some, yes but nothing that seemed to interfere with normal basic learning.
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
15 Feb 11
They do spend a lot of time doing practice tests, and worksheets that basically teach them how to pass the state exams. They miss out on the basic foundations and they don't learn HOW to think. Teaching a first grader that the rainforests are disappearing and that by the time they grow up there won't be any water, food, air, etc., is beyond reprehensible. No wonder so many kids feel they have no future. Teaching methods have not improved with the influx of money, the quality of eduction is not improved. Spending this money is not helping, because money doesn't equal quality. They need to change focus and standards.
• United States
15 Feb 11
I would agree with your first statement there. I haven't heard my kids being taught that and I ask questions and pay attention to what they bring home. But perhaps their school is different. Different schools do tend to teach different things and I would have an issue with my kids being told that life was going to end before they were adults because of the destruction of the rainforests. But I don't see anything wrong with them being aware of it, any more than basic awareness of other things happening in the world around them. Teaching methods are not improved nor are kids smarter because of standardized tests. I think we both agree on that, or at least that the effort spent on that is not useful. Money does not equal quality but the school system is poorly run and there are major differences between not only school systems but individual schools within the school system. That just doesn't seem right. When cuts happen they don't go "children's education first, we'll fire a few people" they cut food budgets, things that teach kids how to think like the arts, and music programs. Of course the education should come first but that isn't what happens. If I had the magic wand, I'd make those changes, but this is the real world. I'd rather the cuts come from somewhere other than my kids schooling - yes its too much money, yes there is too much bureaucracy. But cutting budgets isn't changing that, its just shortchanging the kids.
@Redeye95 (19)
15 Feb 11
Skipping? Are you serious? I understand when an individual has a psychiatric disorder of some sort but skipping? That's totally preposterous. I'd rather we spend money on grade A teachers then silly tests. And anyway, having plenty of teachers aides to help with different students would be a big plus. If the teacher cannot articulate the point accurately enough then someone else may.
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@deebomb (15304)
• United States
15 Feb 11
Amen to that Rollo
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
15 Feb 11
They spend too much time on fluff and not enough on just basics. The kids do not expect to work hard at their school work. They need to focus on the basics until the age where kids are ready to move on to the more detailed subjects.
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@megamatt (14292)
• United States
22 Feb 11
I agree with you one hundred percent. The problem is in a nutshell is there are a lot of wasted time on things that are really not going to help anyone. There is a rigid plan and it is more about mindlessly shunting students from level to level, teaching them things, that ninety percent of them won't even remember months from now, never mind from now. I think that there is too much value on knowledge and not enough on proper study skills and time management. If proper time management and study skills were taught, and then they could move onto teaching valuable knowledge. Hammer it into them at a young age, because I'll tell you this much. They're not going to learn them come High school or college if they have not already. There is too much money wasted on rubbish. And teachers are thrown out there without the proper support a lot of time, its no wonder a lot of them become paycheck zombies over time.
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@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
22 Feb 11
I agree, teach them young. Here's what they should do: Teach them basics in the early years. How to read, how to do math, how to spell, etc. Then you teach them how to think. Once they have the basic skills and the skill of independent thinking and analysis, they can learn anything, they can pass any tests. Nowadays they just teach them how to pass the tests.