Are We a Result of Direct Creation or Evolution??

@buenavida (9985)
Sweden
October 20, 2011 3:40pm CST
Are we created by a great Designer or by random mutations and natural selection? Or anything else? Many ask this question and wonder what the top scientists really believe when they are not influenced by pressure of what is popular at this time. I just found this list of scientist: http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/scientist-who-disbelieve-evolution-76352/ There is a lot of information online, so why not do your own research. I like some articles I found so I post the link here. http://www.watchtower.org/cgi-bin/lib/ProcessForm.pl You are free to say your own opinion, but let´s all respect each other and keep a frindly discussion even if we disagree. Insulting those who think differently only shows lack of good arguments, don´t you agree??
12 responses
@masang (295)
• Philippines
21 Oct 11
We are created by a Supreme being (God). Is it by accident that there is perfect coordination between our 2 eyes? How come all the parts of each eye- the retina, lens, cornea, iris, pupil, muscle of eyesight? Who designed the eye to operate like a camera. Speaking of the retina alone, the innermost layer is made up of 30 million rods and 3 million cones all connected by nerve fibres to the brain- and amazingly the retina which is composed of 9 layers is not even thicker than a sheet of paper? By man's ingenuity, gadgets of all kinds including "almost human computers" have been invented. Man has landed the moon and returned with amazing accuracy; temperature has been successfully simulated; certain parts of the body have been incredibly duplicated. Yet with all the know- how scientific expertise, man cannot create life. Do you realize that a small speck of protoplasm, tinier than a pinpoint which cannot be perceived by the human eye called the gene can reproduce the peculiar physical characteristics of your parents and fashion you to look like them! A scientist once said that if all the genes in the earth were gathered, a thimble could hold all of them. How can these infinisimal genes which are determining factors to all human, animal and vegetable characteristics contain all the ancestral traits? What about the uniqueness of man's intelligence? Is this created by a non-intelligent matter or by a more intelligent Supreme Being? In all the universe- none possess a mind; none is more intelligent than man. Man alone has reasoning power. He can think, unlike an animal who survives only by instincts. Among the various parts of the universe and the infinite details in all parts of our physical world point of the existence of a Creator (Supreme being), How for example, did it happen that the sun has just the correct distance from the earth to sustain human life. Did it then just happen by chance that earth and man are so perfectly matched? Again how come the speed of the rotating earth is just perfect for the survival of human life? Have you ever wondered how it happened that the size of the moon and its distance from the earth just right? more astounding, the gravitational pull is accurate in its timing. Consider too the planets around the sun. They always orderly and follow exact paths that scientist are able to predict accurately the position of any planet in a given time. There are other scientific evidences showing the delicate balance in the universe that points to one Supreme being, the Creator.
21 Oct 11
Our eyes arnt designed, it might look that way if you just take them at face value and ignore the means by which they got here, but that isnt the case. The evidence is that eyes evolved gradually from simple to complex. You might be asking yourself how we know this, but that's simple. Evolutionary theory provides a nested hierarchy of organisms, you can use it to see see all the taxonomic groups that pertain to our ancestors (in sequence). Now if you look at the extant (still living) populations for each group along that hierarchy you'll find every stage leading from photosensitive cells to our eyes. I hate to say this, but the rest of your claim is an argument from ignorance (logical fallacy) of the same variety as your eye statement. ie. 'i dont know how else x could have happened therefore a creator must be responsible'. You see, not knowing, does not make a creator a better explanation, if you want to claim a creator as being responsible then you need to provide evidence
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Well, masang I agree with you.. There are many things that we see around us that show an intelligent Designer. Our placement in the universe and right place in the galax makes it possible for all this life to continue on the earth. We have made many kinds of cameras during the years and the inventions have become more and more complicated but still none of them can function as the eyes of humans or animals. And the cameras that were constructed, all needed a constructor. @types10000 - you are free to have your own opinion, but I cannot agree with you.
@masang (295)
• Philippines
22 Oct 11
My friend types, I would like to ask you: If you don't believe that there is a CREATOR, who is the source of everything that we have? In the case of Evolution theory, who is its source? If there is no Supreme Being, who is responsible of these things that we have discussed? For me as a Christian, I have faith and that faith does not need scientific evidences. To the skeptics, Agnostics and Atheists: Supposing there is really a God/ A Creator. Think about!
@jammyPaul (101)
• Taiwan
21 Oct 11
I think that you just misunderstand the one thing---disbelieving a theory can not make it untrue. If this theory is right, then it is just right. If it is wrong, then a disproof would be enough destroy it. Even everyone can say it wrong, it would still be true. The controversial can stand so long because it violates the basic concept of Bible or God-Create everything theory. I am not going to offend anyone's belief. But it just should not be mixed together. Science is science. Religion is Religion. You can trace the development of creation. That is totally based on the bible not science. If this is truly tested theory, it should be established on convinced science model to support its truth. Of course, it did not based on it. It can't even be used to explain why primates have 99% gene similarity as human, if human is indeed made by some one. Of course, evolution made be not true. But it does not mean creation is right. This is not a 2 choices 1 question. This is a open discussion. You could disbelief revolution but it does not mean you believe creation.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Thank you both for commenting! This could be discussed endlessly, and it is impossible that all can agree to the same things. The best thing in my opinion is to continue the research and find out more and more proven facts and then we can conclude what to believe based on these facts. My experience is that nothing comes from nothing, so I don´t believe that all this universe and what we see around us can be the result of coincidendences, no matter how long time it is supposed to have taken. Well..that is my opinion..
@Bluedoll (16774)
• Canada
21 Oct 11
Well you have me confused jammyPaul. I don't mean to offend either. Who is 'you' in the first sentence? I agree with science is science and religion is religion. I don't understand the "God-Create everything theory" because for me it is not a theory but a truth. That is why I can not understand how there could be disproof. I do understand the concept of a science theory, if the science model only was attempting to prove creation but first it would I think need to prove the existence of God which is impossible. Science again would have to use a thesis method. Religious belief need not. I agree, this is an open discussion where any belief can be presented but fail to see that truth can only be accepted if it scientifically acceptable. A spiritual truth is acceptable to many just as well as science is for others. Some would like a belief (about anything) to be both a truth in science and a truth in a religious (spiritual) belief to be non-conflicting but it is not always the case as they don't always mix well. There is a famous quote how a scientist observed this but I can't remember it now but it was relating to how it is like two different things completely.
1 person likes this
@Bluedoll (16774)
• Canada
22 Oct 11
You are welcome buenavida and I share the same opinion as you in regards to endless discussion and research in just how things came to be and that God created the universe. Knowledge is endless and we can always find new things to learn and with this no one is exempt as no one person knows everything. It really is a beautiful thing if we love learning. I do not agree that nothing always comes for nothing. In scientific analysis this is true and the norm is ... man is limited in his abilities, with that we agree. Man has limitations in a physical world. God can create something from nothing and the bible tells us so. This is entirely the point when it comes to creation versus evolution theory. If one considers that in science things do evolve naturally then this can be in harmony with a faith in God having the ability to create nature in all its glory however if one considers that the theory of evolution removes God out of equation and even suggests that God might not exist, that things came to be because of random events then this is not in harmony with faith. This kind of thinking (theory of evolution)becomes a religious question not a scientific one. It is a difference that separates an atheist from someone that believes in God for example - a religious question. The question of how did things come to be as either creation (believe in God) or evolution (believe that there is no God or may not be a God) becomes a question of faith or lack there of.
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
26 Oct 11
There are a lot of people on that list you posted that don't have a background in biology (for example, a few mathematicians). Some of them never even consented to being on there. As said by someone else, that's a list composed by the Discovery Institute, which is not a very credible group. As for what I think, I think the evidence points to evolution. We have more than just fossil evidence - we also have genetic evidence and observed speciation. That's a lot more physical evidence than what we have for creationism.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
26 Oct 11
Well, I just happened to find this list online, but have not dona any research, so everyone can give comments about it.. I an not a scientist, I am a teacher, but even with common sense, we might be able to think logically. There are still scientist who believe in creation, but it is always good to look at what evidence made them to believe that way. Sometimes variations in the species are thought to be evidence of evolution, but if we have a Creator, why wouldn´t he give us and the animals variation and the ability to adapt to different circumstances??
@sirnose (2436)
• United States
20 Oct 11
This is the $64,000 question in my opinion you can't disprove that an underlining intelligence didn't put us here, and you can't prove it either. Some scientists have came to the conclusion that there is a underling intelligence in our environment so, I guess this is their way of saying a creator had a hand in this. I feel there was some kind of intelligence being(s) that put us here into existence. I hope that one day we will learn the truth of our being here in this vast unknown universe.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
23 Oct 11
Well, we can agree to disagree.. We have a free choice. I just looked at a couple of prophecies that were fulfilled in detail. One is in Isaiah chapters 44 and 45 and tells about Cyrus who invaded Babylon. Even the way he did it is described in detail. And Babylon was a city of the third world power and was supposed to be inpossible to invade. Also the historian Herodotos talks about the same event. Cyrus was very impressed that even his name was mentioned 150 years before he was born. This is only one example of the many exciting prophecies we find in the Bible. The one in Daniel 2 gives us a great hope that we may see a huge change for the better on this earth in our lifetime. We have every reason to study this prophecy as it will affect everyone of us and if we follow the rules of the world government that God will establish, it may mean world peace and eternal life for us. So for me the Bible becomes more and more interesting the longer I study it. But we have a freedom to do research if this is true! Or see what man has succeeded to do in bringing world peace..
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Hi, sirnose - If there is an intelligent person who put us here and gave us the ability to think and reason and enjoy life in many ways, don´t you think this person would communicate with us. After all even we human beings want to communicate with our children and teach them how they can have a happy life. Another thought, why would this Creator give us the wish to learn to know Hime and a wish to find the true meaning of life if he just wanted to leave us alone? I have found that the Bible talks about these very essential question and answers them. Why not study the Bible and see if it really is something we should learn from? Why not see what the Proverbs teach us, if you want to start studying good advice from our Creator?
@sirnose (2436)
• United States
22 Oct 11
Well, buenavida I'm tire of just going by what the bible says about our existence. I prefer a more secular view of how our existence came into being. You must admit that the bible is a great old traditional view of our existence but leave a lot to be desired, and I think it is everyone's duty to look a little farther than just religious teachings. I still read certain religious tracts and publications from time to time, but like I said in my first response you can't prove it and you can't disprove it, how we came into being.
1 person likes this
• United States
26 Oct 11
I believe there is intelligent design in play that brought life to Earth. I am not religious, but I do believe in God and Christ. However, I don't believe the stories of Adam and Eve as they are written as literal truth. I believe there is a difference between biblical truth and literal truth. For instance, the bible says not to suffer a witch to live... but that doesn't mean we go about killing witches like they did in the Salem witch hunts. They took the bible literal, I think and killed so many innocent people. Thus, I don't believe that woman was formed from the rib of man. I do believe in the big bang, and I do believe in evolution and I also believe that God used it to serve His purpose, and continues to use it to serve His purpose. A million years from now we might be extinct, and some other life form will rise above us.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
26 Oct 11
I agree that we have been made by an intelligent designer. And we are not under the law of Israel and don´t need to kill people even if they don´t follow the advice in the law. If the designer is as intelligent as it looks like, why wouldn´t he be able to take material from a rib and make DNA or whatever, that we don´t yet understand..?? Why would he need evolution to create us? Isn´t he intelligent enough to create directly? Well, I guess we all need to do more research..
@Bluedoll (16774)
• Canada
20 Oct 11
I don't care! Please let me explain what I mean by that. 1) I think there is too much focus put on a "debate" where proof can not be determined either way. Not only that this topic most often has become a science versus religious debate and the two things can have incompatible regions where good arguments are fruitless because the dialogue is about two completely different things. It is an interesting topic but in my mind better kept to a purely religious perspective or purely scientific agenda. Mixing the two sets it up for poor discussion and unfriendly arguments. This is my opinion. 2) I believe with all my heart that God is the creator. How he did that makes little difference to me. If he designed each thing, animal, plant and person uniquely or through some stuff into his designed mixture and watched it develop has little interest for me if the reason for study concerns a proof of existence of God. I am content in my beliefs and confident in the fact that God can create something from nothing which no man can ever do.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Yes, God is the creator of all the universe. And it is interesting, that the materia we can see and touch is made of energy. So He is the source of energy. And we can see the design in everything if we open our eyes. Here is a great poem by one friend who has made more research than I have: http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/2315740.aspx
@Bluedoll (16774)
• Canada
22 Oct 11
It is correct, if entire statements are based on scientific analysis that evidence be supplied. However not all statements are scientific. A religiously based statement does not require the same methodical reasons as science does. A person can state their personal beliefs with conviction based solely on their faith and still maintain intellectual honesty. Biblical understanding is enough to warrant a truth and does not need scientific evidence to convince the reader. If the reader shares a believe in God, then faith is enough. Discussions of these kinds of topics can often antagonize into a battle with shouts of winnings in the courtyards. I suggest people do not use words like chastise and the word honesty in relation to another member of mylot in the same sentence as it is stepping over the line and entering into the area of a personal ridicule in my opinion. thank you
21 Oct 11
1). It's not a matter of 'proof' it's a matter of EVIDENCE and in terms of science evolution already won. 2). 'God designed us, i dont care how he did it' is not an intelligible statement, it's an assertion followed by an insinuation that a methodology for the subject of the assertion is unnecessary. i cant chastise you for using it in debate (as you havnt) but it's not exactly intellectually honest to yourself.
• Thailand
21 Oct 11
There is no doubt among creditable scientists that work in the field of the biological sciences that we, the human species, are the end product of the evolutionary process. Your list of scientists is the product of The Discovery Institute, an orginazation that has a long record of confusing theology with science. Both the fossil record and the story written in the genome confirm that we are the result of evolution. The arguments for a creator are theological in nature. No matter how you dress them up they still have no support in physical reality. As you state all are entitled to their own opinion but for any opinion to have weight it must have the support of confirming evidence or it has little or no value.
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Hi, Chiang_Mai_boy I just found that list online and have no idea of their religious background. I thought that it was interesting that they believe in a Creator. Anyway, they are not the only ones, as there are lots of scientists who believe in a creation. I´m sure more research will move us closer to the truth. The wonders in the nature are eough evidence for me of an intelligent person who has planned this earth and the variety we see around us. I like to read about how those who construct machines of all kinds often study the nature and try to copy the things there, as the solutions are so genious. Maybe you know how I would find some info about the beetle I heard of some time ago, that has a one millimeter sized jet motor that can, with help of two chemicals that it sprays into a chamber, cause an explosion and gives it an instant speed of 70 kilometers an hour in case of emergency. Maybe we would need such a jet motor sometimes..
@Galena (9110)
20 Oct 11
I beleive in evolution. when people think evolution can't have made us, they're underestimating nature. nature is a wonderful and miraculous thing.
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Well, I wonder why so many scientists believe in a Creator?? They should know a great deal about the nature..
@Galena (9110)
21 Oct 11
and a great many more don't beleive in a creator. I personally do beleive in Gods, but I don't find that my spiritual belief is contradicted by evolution.
21 Oct 11
There are quite a few scientists who are deists (believe a god got the ball rolling in terms of the universe and stopped interfering thereafter) and still more who beleive in theistic evolution (evolution guided by a divine being) but less than 1% of biologists beleive in CREATIONISM.
• India
21 Oct 11
Evolution as said earlier cannot be proven, its a theory and will remain so unless proved with stern facts. Its not necessary to believe in evolution just because you are a scientist, some don't and that link of your did show some proof. Science can definitely used to improve our living and help mankind, but cannot actually solve problems. If we see a house, even if its in a forest, wouldn't we think that it definitely is built by someone? similarly when we see the creation so beautiful and organized we would wonder who actually created it. We are placed perfectly in the solar system, had we been a little closer, we would all fry, had we been a little further, we would all freeze, the rotations and revolutions of the earth which result in seasons and temperature indicates a higher organized thinking, not a random by chance all perfect situation just for us!
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Hello, keep_onwatch nice to see you! Yes the arguments you mention can be used to make some honest people think. Our place in the universe is very special as it enables so many kinds of life to exist on this earth. It would be interesting to go back a million years or so and find out all facts about what happened, as in that case we would be able to see with our own eyes how God did it all.. But hey, maybe He will make it possible one day..if He wants to show it to us..
@katie0 (5203)
• Japan
21 Oct 11
God is behind it all. Scientists think they know too much but they are not wise, they just learned a lot but they can't usually think for their selves aside from Eistein and amazingly that was a guy that was both genious and spiritual. Scientists only sees the results, they can't even begin with the causes. And skeptics are cowards. It takes a lot of courage to believe, that's why there are so many that just refuse to.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Hi, katie0 One thing that may have made many choose evolution, could be that people don´t want to be responsible to a Creator for what they do. They just want to follow their own desires, even if we find that God´s advice is the wisest. It is true - just as you say - that we need courage to stand for something that is not popular at the moment. Here is a story about a nuclear scientist who didn´t believe in the Bible before, but has changed his mind: http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040122a/article_01.htm
@stary1 (6612)
• United States
20 Oct 11
I believe the answer to this is both..Certianly God had a hand in setting up evolution and keeping it going..in my opinion.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Hi, stary1, it seems many think there is an intelligent Person behind the multitude of animals and humans. So why not go a step further - this Creator is wise enough to create directly and make his creation with a lot of varieties. I believe in the Bible´s creation history. If God decided to create directly, it would not be any problem for Him..
@vasumathi (436)
• India
21 Oct 11
This is a quite interesting information. We should respect everyone with equal respect and in a friendly manner.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
21 Oct 11
Hi, vasumathi..It is great that you like this discussion. Respect helps us to not fight about things, as that would not result in anything. Friendliness helps us to relax and have some fun..