Welfare Misconceptions and Reform

@AidaLily (1450)
United States
August 21, 2012 9:24pm CST
I have noticed a lot of people complaining about how most people on welfare have a lot of nice things, or welfare pays for new cars and more, and with welfare reform being a political issue for some people should actually think about it in reality. The reality is that most people on welfare do not have nice things or brand new cars and much more. There are abusers to any system regardless of how much money you have. Someone on welfare did not use welfare to buy a $20,000 car with all this extra stuff attached. They did not use welfare to buy a brand new plasma TV. There are a lot of people who have taken the "oh welfare pays for everything" and equated it to that. No one on welfare gets that much. Most people on welfare get on average about 300-400 a month with some people getting higher and other people getting lower. Most people on welfare do work or had been working before getting laid off and/or fired. The ones on welfare who do work can save up money. After all, they only count your money before taxes that you receive. In this instance should a person on welfare also hold a job the welfare either helps them to break even or saved small increments of money. Amounts that most people wouldn't even count. If they save enough money, then they can buy something nice for themselves regardless of what it is because they worked hard for it and you have no right to complain because you would do things differently. Now for some people on welfare, they do work, but they do not work legitimately which is one of the reasons I support drug testing recipients. If you are medically on a drug that appears in a drug test then bring those to your drug testing appointment. People say that it is expensive to test and in some places it might be, but in the long run it will stop some people from claiming welfare due to not being able to get a drug out of their system. Anyone who gets welfare should be able to produce some form of American I.D. I could care less if it is a student I.D., a gun permit, your marriage license (with a photo), your driver's license/state I.D., SSN card, a birth certificate, the deed to your house, and much others. You should prove you were born here to get aid from here. You have EBT cards. People can't sell food stamps like they used to be able to. Even with the two things I mentioned you would get a lot of freeloaders off of welfare in the sense of cash assistance and food stamps. -END POST...THE FOLLOWING IS A MINI RANT AFTER A CONVERSATION I HAD WITH SOMEONE- On top of that, for those that complain about the food people buy with them... just mind your own business. In this regard and I have heard it a lot, people are so busy paying attention to what is in other people's carts and complain because they can't afford it. I don't know why people do this. I usually just want to get to the store, get what I need, and get out of the store, but if you want to pay attention to every thing someone is getting... I would like to inform you that there are better things to do with your life. Seriously! Whatever happened to mind your own business in this country?! -End of rant- Sorry some people just annoy me.
2 people like this
6 responses
@crossbones27 (48417)
• Mojave, California
22 Aug 12
Some people just do not want to pay taxes. It is estimated that less than 2 percent of people on welfare cheat the system. Why? That is because they actually monitor poor people. Besides poor people can't afford by buy anyone off. What this country needs to worry about is corporate welfare. It has already hit the 100 billion mark for the the fiscal year of 2012. That's 50 percent higher than what they offer on social programs for the poor. Now before the right jumps on Obama for that too. We all knew this was going on long before he ever took office. Now I am sure our government officials have people in place to monitor that system too. The problem is they have other rich people doing the monitoring just like they have Bank officials monitoring Wall Street. So you tell me where the fraud lies? Its hard to keep a system from being corrupt when you have all these people buying one another off. Then corruption breeds more corruption. Its like a virus that way. What gets me is people really don't think the system is rigged? Why don't people take walk or drive though a bad neighborhood of a major city. You tell me the system isn't rigged. Know one likes to, because they are to scared or just don't like to face reality.
2 people like this
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
23 Aug 12
No one seems to want to pay taxes and only few people realize that taxes are a necessity. Not only do not that many people cheat the system, but you don't get loads of extra money for kids and whatever else the right wing usually brainwashes people to believe. There is a family of three at the family center I belong to and they get a whole $146 for food stamps and only one parent is working and yet they make too much for cash assistance. How people think that a family can survive off of $146 a month is beyond me. I have to spend $350 a month on groceries and I have one more child than they do. If a person has to spend at least $350 for a family of four, I don't think $146 for a family of three is going to quite cut it. They do monitor the poor a lot closer than they monitor Wall Street. People need an actual checks and balances system that works. If the three branch system worked properly then we wouldn't have the one party controls congress, the white house, and elected officials for the supreme court that believe the same as they do. That is not a checks and balances system, that is a "I will get away with it as long as my party controls it" system. People should go through bad neighborhoods rather than believing random newscast about people on welfare. They should see first hand how much people are working and struggling just to pay rent and bills, buy food and much more. They won't because as you said they are either scared or don't want to face reality. Most Americans don't even want to face the reality that we have starving children on the streets and it is making it seem like the "American Dream" is to stay dreaming and don't focus on reality.
1 person likes this
• Mojave, California
23 Aug 12
I am so sick of hearing about the American dream. Lets face reality, At one time the world envied us because we were different and figured out another way. Now they are on to us and they have better ideas. The only reason anyone cares about us now is because we spend so much on our military. I guess that's why we can never lower our defense budget.
• Mojave, California
23 Aug 12
Can we all please figure out a way to get a long with each other and then we will all have a dream. Of course that's going to take responsibility.I guess we can all can just let the planet decide. Which way do you think that's going to go?
• Australia
22 Aug 12
I've had the misfortune to have had to rely on unemployment benefit in the past, and now mainly on the Age pension, which is somewhat higher than the unemployment. This is in Australia, where the benefits are bigger and the COL lower than in the States, and believe me sister, it ain't easy. Some people cheat the system, no doubt. But people who want to stop welfare because of a few cheats should perhaps consider how many respectable businessmen and politicians steal, cheat, and avoid taxes, and maybe spend their energies where it will actually do some good, stopping the rich cheats. Lash
1 person likes this
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
23 Aug 12
I agree with you. However, I live in the states and well not everyone is the brightest bulb in the bunch. You have people who realize that living on welfare isn't getting anyone these super nice cars and such, that unemployment barely helps people get by... and then you have the extreme right wing......... It is being continuously proven to me that these people only think of right now. No one is promised tomorrow, but they also aren't promised a steady job, a house, food, or anything like that. No one expects to have a heart attack, survive, and no longer be able to work. There are more rich cheats than there are welfare cheats, and I would personally like for everyone to stop cheating. I have long since realized though that too many people easily become corrupted and the ones who aren't are looked at as crazy.
1 person likes this
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
23 Aug 12
I believe welfare should be a temporary assistance program, not a lifelong support system.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
24 Aug 12
"No unemployment means that any college grads, recent high school grads, and more can not get a job once all positions are filled." No unemployment doesn't mean every job is filled. It means everyone looking for a job has found one.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
24 Aug 12
"Everyone looking for a job has found one." However, if everyone is employed what is to stop a company from closing up any open positions? After all there are a lot of unemployed people at the moment and even less openings in some areas. Hypothetically you have 100,000 job openings all over the country (yes i know there are more) and 2.3 million people looking for work. Companies increase the amount of jobs to that number and everyone gets hired. Where are your job openings for people just becoming able to work or leaving school? That.. *points to the hypothetical* is what I mean. The same with companies not making anymore jobs to fill the quota or being able to expand enough to make jobs for the new number of unemployed. Less companies are actually creating these jobs and thus should they increase enough jobs to get rid of current unemployment there wont be jobs for up and coming people. As a side note, the unemployment rate would also go down if you didn't need a degree or to pay for training for everything and/or more apprenticeships were available. I find it ridiculous that someone can teach themselves how to fix cars, pass a test for a job, and not be hired because they don't have a degree or certificate in auto mechanics.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
24 Aug 12
Temporary assistance may be possible, but the question is do you realize what would happen if there was no unemployment? 1. No unemployment means that any college grads, recent high school grads, and more can not get a job once all positions are filled. The average life expectancy is about 70 years of age give or take a few years. Which means if you get a job at 18 and you retire at 65, for a total 47 years no one can take your position unless you get fired or die beforehand. Now imagine everyone having a job at 18 years old and not retiring until 65. For 47 years that means anyone reaching the age of 18 can not work because there are no opportunities. It would mean more debt and less people being able to feed themselves or support their families without a government food program. Now while I am all for helping others with food and sometimes cash, there should be a limit to how much cash assistance someone can receive unless they are disabled like someone who broke their legs at work or someone born with autism who can't function, a veteran who may need to be able to recuperate after coming home from war, displaced workers for a period of up to 10 years, and to help a family for up to 10 years (or more by case basis) should a person have been laid off or medical issues suddenly arise with the only primary caregiver/breadwinner in the household. Cash assistance is different from food stamps. Americans waste a lot of food on average every year. Some statistics say that 40% of all food in America is wasted. Rather than waste more food or let the farms lose even more money on produce or something give people in need food stamps. Now they need to reform the system, because 2 adults making $50,000 a year together and renting a small one bedroom apartment with no children or elderly should not be getting $400 a year of food stamps when we have poor and homeless who could use the money more. 2. I am not going to tell an army vet who isn't making much and is on welfare to go out and get a job. Sorry, he or she served this country in our armed forces and it would be disrespectful to say "oh thanks for that, but I am greedy and want all my money so... you can only be on welfare for five years and then you have to get off your lazy behind and get a job like the rest of us." Sorry, I will not do that or agree to it.
• United States
24 Aug 12
The idea of welfare is to help those who by virtue of their advanced age or physical impairments are incapable of working. The problem with today's welfare recipients is that too many of them have been brought up to believe that they are owed money from the government by virtue of their poverty whether they're able bodied or not. I think one of the thinks that irks some of us regarding welfare recipients is that every child of welfare parents has the opportunity to go to school to better their prospects. However, too many of them would rather live off the dole than improve their situation. The work ethics that made this country great are being phased out of our attitude.
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
24 Aug 12
The problem I see is that most of the people can, if they choose, find work enough to take care of themselves. We live in this excuse driven society, where people are full of endless reasons why they just can't. But the fact is, when you don't have a choice... you do. See, when you have a choice, you'll find a reason to take the easy option. Back in 1996, when they originally passed welfare reform, this reporter was interviewing a lady on welfare who had two kids. The reporter asked almost melancholy, "what will this mean for your family being kicked off welfare?" The lady looked her in the eyes and said "we'll be better off for sure!" The stunned reporter stumbled out "better??" "Oh yes, I'll get a job and have more money. We'll be better off for sure". Again, the stunned reporter "But then why didn't you do this before?" " Because I didn't have to." That's literally what she said on broadcast nightly news. When you don't HAVE TO make the changes required to live your life, you don't. Toddlers don't put away their blocks unless they have to. Children don't do their homework unless they have to. Teenagers don't mow the lawn and do chores unless they have to. People tend to not do what they need to do, unless they have to. Ironically it's this forcing them to do what they need to do, that results in them maturing and succeeding. People will often advance in life simply because they are forced to learn how to be a good employee, forced to learn people skills, forced to put in the effort to keep their job. When you allow them to be on welfare, and not have to do all that, they don't. That's why we have 50 year olds who still don't know how to be an employee, how to get along with others, how to master any craft, and be worth more than minimum wage. But giving them welfare, they never advance, and they remain dependent on welfare and government assistance for their lives. That family that is getting the $146 in food stamps. I promise you, if you were to deny them food stamps, they would be forced to do what is needed to get money for food. But they are not forced to, so they won't. I knew a guy from Romania, back when I worked at Wendy's. He worked flipping burgers on the grill. His wife didn't work, and he had two kids. No car. No phone. No computer. No internet. No TV, no VCR (at that time), no cable. One bedroom apartment. He fed his whole family, no government assistance at all. If a guy that barely speaks English, immigrant to the US with an non-working wife, and can feed his family without food stamps... how do you expect me to believe that an American with a high school degree can not? They can. They choose not to because we give them the option of not.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
24 Aug 12
While I understand being upset with able-bodied younger people that refuse to work or those people that make more than enough but cheat the system, but most welfare recipients are on it because they need it. I am fine with welfare as long as it is for struggling families, physical/mental impairments, veterans, homeless and people who can't work due to age. I am against giving it to freeloaders, college students who can work, singles with no kids that live beyond their means, couples with no kids and two jobs who eat out a lot and still get welfare, and people like these ones mentioned. There are not too many that believe that they are owed money, but any media outlet will only show the ones that do. I know more people in bad neighborhoods that hate being on them, but they can't survive without them do to rising prices. They work, they take odd jobs when someone can pay for them and they still can't make ends meet. Rent goes up with rising property taxes, then you have rising food prices, and much more. An example I give is a family I know who get $146 in food stamps. They hate being on them but the work and the hours they are used to working are no longer available. They can't afford child care anymore and life is over all harder. Finding jobs in this time isn't easy for anyone and most people are hoping to keep their jobs. I just hate that all these people are judged because of chosen few idiots the media is willing to show on TV. Perhaps if the media was more positive (not completely but not just showing the worst case of everything) then maybe people wouldn't believe all their misconceptions about the program.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
23 Aug 12
It is our business. The taxpayers are the ones paying for it if it's bought with food stamps.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
24 Aug 12
If it was none of our business, we wouldn't have the right to vote. We wouldn't have any say in how the government is run, but we do have a say. We are the one who put the politicians in office, and we are the ones who can remove them. The United States of America is a republic not a dictatorship.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
24 Aug 12
You also pay for your politicians, federal employees, to fix the roads, police, and more. It is not your business. It is the business of the people on it. YOUR business only has to deal with YOU and NOT anyone else. It is not my business what someone on food stamps buys as food. It is not your business. It is not the government's business. It may be tax dollars. However your tax dollars are no longer yours the moment you get your paycheck and they are deducted. The only money that is yours is what you get after taxes. You are not personally paying for a family to eat. The amount of money out of your paycheck goes to a lot of different things that the government spends money on. More of your money has probably went to the local government, you know the people paying for your protection and all, and to the federal government for federal employee paychecks and such than it has to welfare. The average person probably pays roughly about $50 into the system a year and that is people making at least $9 an hour. Fifty dollars is not buying much of anything. It won't even last a month for most people. You should be more concerned that some of your tax dollars go into grant funds in which people can apply for a government funded vacation rather than the measly amount of money that might go to feeding a family.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
24 Aug 12
Those are two different things. You have the right to vote for whom you think would be a good candidate for senate and president. You have no say in what bills congress passes unless they put the bill for public vote and usually they don't. You can't fire them "in term" unless enough people agree and push for them to be fired. You can't even remove them from office unless a vast majority vote against them in the next election. That means for the term of your senator or president, you can't really do much to get them out for the duration of your term. That is literally all the say we get in this country. You get a vote. They get power. It is not your business what someone personally does. You can wish they did it differently or speak against them, but truly it isn't your business.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
25 Aug 12
The test of the morality of a society is what it does for its children. ~Dietrich Bonhoeffer The greatness of America is in how it treats its weakest members: the elderly, the infirm, the handicapped, the underprivileged, the unborn. ~Bill Federer I am NOT AGAINST HELPING THOSE WHO NEED HELP. But we've been duped, misled and taken for a ride when it comes to welfare. http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/cloward-piven-strategy-bring-down-capitalism-by-flooding-the-welfare-system/ This is the opening paragraph of the Nation (published by the CPUSA) article: How can the poor be organized to press for relief from poverty? How can a broad-based movement be developed and the current disarray of activist forces be halted? These questions confront, and confound, activists today. It is our purpose to advance a strategy which affords the basis for a convergence of civil rights organizations, militant anti-poverty groups and the poor. If this strategy were implemented, a political crisis would result that could lead to legislation for a guaranteed annual income and thus an end to poverty. The Coward Pivens strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The "Cloward-Piven Strategy" seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse. In their 1966 article, Cloward and Piven charged that the ruling classes used welfare to weaken the poor; that by providing a social safety net, the rich doused the fires of rebellion. Poor people can advance only when “the rest of society is afraid of them,” Cloward told The New York Times on September 27, 1970. Rather than placating the poor with government hand-outs, wrote Cloward and Piven, activists should work to sabotage and destroy the welfare system; the collapse of the welfare state would ignite a political and financial crisis that would rock the nation; poor people would rise in revolt; only then would “the rest of society” accept their demands. The key to sparking this rebellion would be to expose the inadequacy of the welfare state. Cloward-Piven’s early promoters cited radical organizer Saul Alinsky as their inspiration. “Make the enemy live up to their (sic) own book of rules,” Alinsky wrote in his 1972 book Rules for Radicals. When pressed to honor every word of every law and statute, every Judaeo-Christian moral tenet, and every implicit promise of the liberal social contract, human agencies inevitably fall short. The system’s failure to “live up” to its rule book can then be used to discredit it altogether, and to replace the capitalist “rule book” with a socialist one. Welfare is now being used to do this very thing, bring down capitalism and usher in socialism. We all know true charity is the responsibility of the individual. And that by passing off the responsibility of caring for the poor onto the government via our taxes we have neglected our OWN responsibility to the poor, and the needy. It is NOT the job of the federal government to take care of the daily needs of any of us. It is the responsibility of the individual who sees his brother in need to meet that need. Since the individual has neglected that, the government steps in. And the individual ultimately pays the price for his neglect of the poor. HOW? Because the government is by nature an enforcer of laws, not a compassionate individual, and it will grow in power as it takes from one class to give to another. We had Welfare Reform. People were required to go to school or get a job. Obama has done away with that due to the economic crisis. We now have almost half of the American people on some sort of government assisstance. What happens to the system in this state of affairs? Government does indeed, not have a money tree planted in the Rose Garden, the MONEY for social welfare programs comes from taxes paid by the individual. And if LESS and LESS taxes are collected because more and more are on welfare, the system crashes. And we are about to see that happen in front of our very eyes. And NO ONE WILL GET THE HELP THEY NEED. It isn't so much about people on welfare having a bunch of stuff that working people cannot afford, it is about the mind set that government OWES us. And that has been pounded into the mind of America for the last two generations. People se a problem and their first thought is government ought to do something! The ONLY thing government owes us is to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. Why else the oath of office for any government official? We have been duped. The Cloward Pivens Stragey proves it. It has been implemented and it has brought us to our knees.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
26 Aug 12
We do need to reform a system that enables people to abuse it. No doubt. And government does need to get out of the way of employers, not pass more regulations on them. In short, as you say, make it easier for someone to get a job because employers can expand and create more positions. But, the mind set of many is that government can solve all the problems (even further, that they are the ONLY solution to the problem) this mind set has to change if we are going to see any reform that matters.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
26 Aug 12
The one thing about reform is that everything needs reformed. Some people scream only welfare needs reformed, some people scream only the tax loopholes should be reformed. Personally, I feel that if we are to work on our debt, all tax loopholes should be closed. It is one of the many reasons why I refuse to vote democratic or republican in this election. Neither one of them talks about closing the loopholes, maybe shrinking them or not at all. No one in America should be allowed to avoid taxes by putting money overseas. If you are a true American invest in America rather than other countries. No one should be able to get on welfare with no economic hardship. If you are single and making $50,000 a year with the only responsibility being yourself then you don't need welfare. I would probably have what some may call radical thoughts on reform in Washington like making lobbying illegal and making it a punishable offense for politicians to accept money from lobbyist to vote towards their special agendas. These politicians need some reminder that they are here for the people and not because most of them can get rich from lobbying and deals with companies.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
27 Aug 12
In fact, I listened to Romney/Ryan talk in Ohio last week, they said that very thing....close the damn loopholes. We often hear what we want to hear, or don't hear what we think isn't being said.