Name Calling and other PC Issues
By debrakcarey
@debrakcarey (19887)
United States
November 8, 2012 6:18pm CST
Recently I posted a discussion calling the leftists IDIOTS. I did so and I will not apologize for it. I responded today to a discussion against the right that called us haters, and when the poster tried to apologize for it in another discussion I defended her right to say it.
I don't like name calling. It is used as a last resort when what you tried to say was not heard. BUT, in today's world where men are put in jail for speaking their mind (maker of video against Mohammed and former marine for posting on FB) I feel that we all, liberals and conservatives, should speak up and say what we mean. Of course, I do think it would be better, more mature to not call names, but like I told the lady who posted a discussion calling conservatives 'haters', I would defend to the death her right to call me that. For that is what America is really all about, freedom to think, to speak, to believe as we want. But also about the other guys right to disagree with us.
Respect is as President Clinton famously quipped “I feel your pain.” Respect is “Walk a mile in your shoes.” Respect for another human being is one of the primary lessons of religion. And if you think about it, respect is codified in the Constitution and respect is the superstructure upon which the Constitution is constructed.
Listening means people exchanging ideas and trying to understand and, more importantly, acknowledge the other guy’s point of view even though he disagrees with him. This mode of interchange leads people to find common ground and in the end be able to resolve differences. Unfortunately most discussion is like a tug of war where each side tries to overwhelm the other guy and pull the guy over to his side. We are calling 'listening' a social construct because it is an essential building block of a functional society. Without it there is division, divisiveness, and distrust.
We have two sides on an issue that neither will give an inch on. Two very different worldviews one competing for respect, the other demanding control and dominance. Who should give in? Who should win? In the spirit of the greatest debaters of all time, the Talmudic (jJewish) scholars, maybe the issue really is about R-E-S-P-E-C-T?
Respect is a lost art in our culture. Debate is also a lost art. Seeing the world through your neighbor's eyes, walking that mile in his shoes....
We don't have to 'give in' or acquiesce to their demands or even become intolerant of their worldview in response to those demands. It is not an either/or proposition.
Here on myLot people have told me (and probably you too) that they do not care for political or religious discussions due to this polarization of worldviews. I say, we cannot afford not to talk about our differences if we want to survive in this world.
And those who would tell you to be silent because it is not nice to offend, well just tell them it wasn't for protecting acceptable speech that the first amendment was written, it was for protecting that which is not acceptable by the status quo that our fore fathers wrote that first and foremost amendment, without which none of the others matter.
4 people like this
10 responses
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
9 Nov 12
I generally try and keep my political discussions limited to forums in which politics is expected. I expect people to make idiotic claims on a political forum, such as mylot politics, thus I do not have a problem speaking my mind on the subject here.
However I do not respond bluntly in other settings, simply because expectations are different.
That said, about two weeks ago I had a surprising encounter. On a completely different media, I happen to mention that I did not support Obama, made no referrence.to any individual, nor said anything remotely insulting.
A person I had known for years, attacked me instantly and called me an idiot. Of course I did not find it insulting (when ignorant people call you an idiot, its a complement), and they apologized mintues later, but the rash attacking without knowing anything about the other persons opinions was surprising. Just for daring to not support Obama... really? We're that far gone into cult worship of a politician?
1 person likes this
@andy77e (5156)
• United States
9 Nov 12
Well to be fair to the other side, if they didn't misunderstand, misquote, and misjudge, well.... they wouldn't have anything to defend their position with.
How exactly can you promote leftist belief without intentionally or unintentionally mischaracterizing the other view point?
You couldn't. Without those 'pillars' of leftist ideology... they'd end up becoming right-wing.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
9 Nov 12
Believe me, I can relate. The discussion I mentioned in the OP was a reaction to similar encounters. It was a reactionary post to four long years of being misunderstood, misquoted, misjudged. A reaction to the hypocrisy of those who can assume they know all about your deepest feelings, yet will not accept you have an opinion about them and their beliefs.
We have, in the name of 'tolerance' silenced truth, we have silenced debate, we have lost our right to think, believe, and say what we think and believe. It's going to get worse I fear. And soon thinking and believe outside the status quo will be illegal.
I see glimmers of it in our president's speech to the UN; the future does not belong to those who insult....
@francesca5 (1344)
•
16 Nov 12
andy77e, i cannot imagine that anyone could know you for years and not know your politics.
@evanslf (484)
•
9 Nov 12
Sadly people are too intolerant these days, they have become too tribal, too set in their views, thinking that they and only they are right and demonising the other side. This has therefore led to a decline in political debate. I am a Dem supporter, but I try to be reasonable and fair, I recognise that people have a different view, I know it is not good for one party to be in power all the time and the other not. I think there is a place, an important place, for the GOP - the argument for debt control, small government, controlling wasteful expenditure, etc are perfectly valid ones. I do feel however that the GOP needs to accept that they should be consistent in their approach - you don't like Government and you don't want it over-regulating or over-taxing, but you should apply the same principle to people's private lives, Government shouldn't be in people's bedrooms. It is ok for people in the GOP, many of whom are deeply religious, to be against abortion. I wholly understand that. What is not ok however is to try to impose those views on others, many of whom are not religious (now 20% of Americans say they are atheist or agnostic). God says that we have 'free will' and so that should be so, he does not seek to impose his will on others, he only asks that we follow him in faith, but it is for each man or woman to decide freely. If the GOP were to concentrate on an economic message of small government in ALL aspects, not just on economic issues but on social issues as well, I suspect the GOP would be onto a winner. Indeed, I think Romney would have won the election if that had been so.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
12 Nov 12
I thought that it just got passed that religious organizations do NOT have to include birth control in their insurance policies. Maybe I'm wrong...I'll have to research that again but I swear that I just heard it last week.
as for abortions....where do our tax dollars cover abortions here in the US? I have not heard of any insurance that covers abortion and I don't know of anywhere that gives free abortions.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
13 Nov 12
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/24/fact-check-web-site-re-confirms-obamacare-funds-abortions/
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/09/24/fact-check-web-site-re-confirms-obamacare-funds-abortions/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2012/02/six-things-to-know-about-the-hhs-mandate/
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
9 Nov 12
and yet many on the left accused him of flip flopping on the social issues. can't win for losing. As for government in our bedrooms, as a conservative I do agree, but abortion doesn't take place in the bedroom, it takes place NOW funded by tax dollars of people who are opposed to it religiously. Obamacare, Catholics are being forced to pay for insurance that is more expensive NOW that birth control is not an option but a requirement in each policy, and so that puts them in the position of paying for something against their strongly held convictions. Btw....Islam got a waiver on that particular issue. I find it perfectly understandable there is such heated debate, two very different worldviews are at war.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
9 Nov 12
I had the same problem. I responded to a political discussion that was started by a liberal, and then two or three of the liberals started to talk about me behind my back right in the discussion as if I were not there. I told them what I thought that your president was not right for the country and the whole section was deleted because mylot did not like it. I answered another discussion and he got mad because I disagreed with me, when I pointed out nicely something that might get people to misunderstand and he got furious. I love discussing religion and politics and God and all that, but find that I cannot without getting my head chewed up.
That is why we should all be respectful and not decide to forcibly make people change their minds. Changing your mind through force does not make a better society. If they need to get you or me to change our minds there are nicer and better ways to do it.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
13 Nov 12
I just wanted to say I don't consider name-calling to be a "PC issue". I mean, I get being tired of all the political correctness in our society but you can avoid being PC without resorting to name-calling and immature insults.
I'm certainly not saying anyone should be silent regardless of whether they share my views or not. We all have a right to express ourselves. Sure, included in that right is the right to insult others, call them names and be generally offensive if we so choose but just because we HAVE the right doesn't MAKE it right, does it? Also, I don't think name-calling helps anyone make the case for their position on whatever issue they're discussing. I know personally if someone is respectful and genuinely tries to reasonably and rationally explain why they feel as they do and why I should consider their viewpoint I'm a heck of a lot more likely to pay attention to what they're saying than if they call me an idiot or tell me I've lost my mind.
Annie
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
16 Nov 12
I see what you mean. When someone is condesending or takes a tone of superiority I turn off my ears to what they're saying.
BUT, I see nothing wrong with strong emotion and passion in holding our viewpoints. I am expressing here what I've experienced across the whole of the internet. MyLot is tame compared to what is experienced on twitter and Facebook.
I am tired of the 'easily offended' who take disagreement as an insult.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
16 Nov 12
I think we're in agreement here after all! I definitely know what you mean about FB and Twitter, especially Twitter. I see nothing wrong with expressing strong emotion either, I just prefer to try to keep it civil whenever possible. I don't take disagreement as an insult and if someone dislikes/distrusts/disagrees with a politician I support I don't take it as a slam against me personally and I certainly don't mean it as a dig on someone else if I disagree with, etc. someone they support. While we all know there are some people on both sides who are somewhat uninformed on the issues I believe that in general we all have our own reasons why we have the political views we have and it certainly doesn't make those of us on either side stupid.
Annie
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
11 Nov 12
I can see why people get offended in the heat of the moment and I also can see how offensive names or words can be slung when really no one wants to hurt or be hurt. It's all about knowing when to walk away, cool down & clear heads. Holding on to the anger is what I don't understand. There was a person that used to be on here that I'd get into some really heated and I mean heated debates with. It was not unusual for him to call me some pretty insulting names. I'm sure I flung some back at him too but generally that is about when we'd just end the debate for a bit. and do you know...through it all we are still friends outside of Mylot. We are very different in many respects but it's ok.
as for being offended...well, I would rather someone tell me what they really feel whether I agree or not, am offended or not than to pretend to be something or someone they are not in some stupid attempt to "not hurt my feelings." If I'm offended strong enough then I'll just stay away from the person.
@rog0322 (2829)
• Cagayan De Oro, Philippines
9 Nov 12
Hi,
Well, there are times when our freedom of expression is curtailed by some rules in one way or another, respect one of them. Common sense may be another reason. If our message is clear and still some people can't get it, then maybe it is time to fire away the words that can hit home and hit effectively with whatever effect it may be regardless of creed, culture or affiliation. We can pick up the pieces afterwards and try to move on.
For the meantime, lets just abide by the rules of engagement as agreed by international convention. It is the process of arriving at the truth that matter most in any interaction, words are its servants and freedom its ultimate goal.
@STOUTjodee (3572)
• United States
9 Nov 12
Totally agree with you rog0322!
One can even arrive with the truth without name calling. If you're passionate about a belief/idea one can get their point across without hurting one's feeling without name calling. Sure, you still might be offended to find out you weren't right!
One can even arrive with the truth without name calling. If you're passionate about a belief/idea one can get their point across without hurting one's feeling without name calling. Sure, you still might be offended to find out you weren't right!
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
10 Nov 12
You're absolutely right! I hadn't really thought about it like that1 I'm more prone to being disgusted that folks don't listen but take to heart the worst propaganda their particular 'side' proclaims. And I feel a real mob mentality sort of spirit these days.. but I'm very much with ya, when it comes to believing we NEED to talk. If the people don't talk the politicians will rule the world that much sooner!
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
11 Nov 12
the schools don't teach individuals to think. They teach them to regurgitate info.
@lampar (7584)
• United States
11 Nov 12
Resorting to name calling only shown that member is lack of intellect and having low level of literacy skill. It is rude to begin name calling on the fellow responder just because he/she is having a different political/religious views in the response. It is totally uncall for and unnecessary in this forum; everyone should adhere to civility and respect for each other in discussing topic in Mylot; not start throwing insult with the aim to provoke a verbal war on each others. It is quite a shame to see such uncivilized behavior existed among certain members inside Mylot. 
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
9 Nov 12
Well, "hater" has a softer connotation than "idiot."
Like, if someone says that LeBron James isn't the best in basketball, they'll probably be labeled a hater.
Labeling them an idiot is a bit harsher. 
One is: Pff. You're not recognizing the talent. You just don't wanna admit he's the king!
The other is: STFU. You have no business even voicing an opinion.
I think sometimes people's different frames of reference can cause intense drama where they should only be slight drama.
One is: Pff. You're not recognizing the talent. You just don't wanna admit he's the king!
The other is: STFU. You have no business even voicing an opinion.
I think sometimes people's different frames of reference can cause intense drama where they should only be slight drama. @debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
9 Nov 12
“Useful idiots” are people who work as propagandists for causes whose goals they do not understand, and who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.
Somewhere in the back of my mind when I wrote that discussion, there lurked this thought, I'd read it and subconsciously filed it away, and it burst forth in my frustration in dealing with being unjustly called everything from a hater to a racist over the course of the last four years. Mind you, I didn't stop to consider which word to use, or if it was 'acceptable' socially. I didn't give a rip. Just like, I'm sure, those who call me hater or racist don't give a rip how it makes me feel.
But here's the thing I learned, what folks call me doesn't really matter to me in the final analysis of my life, and this can be expressed as; if the shoe fits, wear it. Being offended has become a high art form. And it is used as a weapon to shut folks up. I'm not playing that game anymore. I am not a hateful person, so I doubt I'll be going around diliberately trying to hurt people by calling them names. And I am not going to be automatically 'offended' when I get called names.
Life is all about choices. Isn't it? We better grow up quick, I have a feeling we are going to be seeing a lot of offenses to our safe little world in the future.
@STOUTjodee (3572)
• United States
9 Nov 12
Yes, I use to be one of those people who didn't think politics or religion should be "aired" in the open, it should be private. But I decided to be open about it and for the most part my friends have the same view as I do. There are few however, who disagree with me and even called me names (who later apologized.) You can disagree with me and that's fine, but back your opinions up with facts. We now have the internet where we can access all different types of sites to find information. Look up as much as you can and find the TRUTH! Respect other people's opinions and learn from them. If you still disagree that's fine too, but don't resort to name calling.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
9 Nov 12
America needs to stop being so easily offended. Name calling is not the best way, and folks should try their best to avoid it. But on the other hand, I think sometimes people are offended just for the sake of being offended.
@STOUTjodee (3572)
• United States
9 Nov 12
Totally agree with you! Some people are offended just because you don't agree with them. The only way they seem to be able to get their point across is by name calling. Instead they should try to get their point across in a constructive way and use tact. We all have a RIGHT to an oopinion!
Some people are offended just because you don't agree with them. The only way they seem to be able to get their point across is by name calling. Instead they should try to get their point across in a constructive way and use tact. We all have a RIGHT to an oopinion!