Teachers pay determined by success rate

January 18, 2007 9:16am CST
This is an idea pertaining to the US Education System. What is your opinion on the following. If Teacher's as well as school Principal's salaries were based on the success of their students, students education would greatly improve. As is, they are all on the same pay scale, based on how much education they hold themselves and how many years they have been working. Regardless how many children leave their room at the end of year without improving in skills or not knowing what is required to enter the following grade, they still are paid the same.
6 people like this
58 responses
@owlwings (42952)
• Cambridge, England
18 Jan 07
I agree that, as in many industries, a 'productivity' bonus or incentive could be applied. However, this would tend to reward those teachers where the level of education is naturally high (because of high student motivation and ability) and would work against teachers who may, in fact, be putting more into their job but happen to be employed in an area where there is low motivation and less overall ability. I have known teachers, for example, who may not be getting good exam results because they happen to be working with students of low ability. Where they succeed, however, is in sending these students out into the world with a better attitude to become better employees. I have also known teachers who basically churn out the same syllabus year after year and do very little in the way of actually assisting their students to learn but, because the intake is of brighter students who are already more motivated, will tend to get above average exam results. There should be scope, I think, for head teachers/school managers to reward individual teachers in their schools for good work. These rewards would be based on the Annual Reviews, so would not depend entirely on documentable evidence.
2 people like this
• United States
19 Jan 07
i definitely agree with you on this one. I wanted to go to school to become a teacher, but in maine the starting salary is 22,000. and doesn't get much higher then that. I know i would be a good teacher. i love kids and love teaching. It would be frustrating for me to know i was making the same if not less then another teacher who wasn't very qualified. None of it makes any sense to me, but i know the reason i didn't become a teacher was the pay, which is sad.
1 person likes this
@kminer (101)
• United States
19 Jan 07
I'm a teacher and I feel both ways about it. We do make a salary SCALE - so it *does* matter how much education and how many years experience! You get money based on how many years in the profession, and also whether you have a Master's Degree or not. That being said, a teacher with the same # of years as me, makes the same pay - even if all of my children pass end of the year testing and all of hers fail. I'd personally like to see higher salaries for those with better pass rates/proved results. So every gets the same base, but those who have more student results get an extra stipend.
2 people like this
@Gruzzle (294)
19 Jan 07
I back your idea in principle, and any measure that improves the eduaction of our children should be fully explored. I think we can all agree that good teachers should be rewarded while bad teachers should be replaced. The trouble we've had in my country (UK) has been resistance by Teaching unions like the NUT (National Union of Teachers) who treatened strike action when performance related pay was consider in the late 1990's. I guess they want to protect their members -even the bad ones.
• India
18 Jan 07
YES ITS TRUE in our college some letureres dont take lectures but they get full payment they even come n tel us that even if they wil not teach us they wil get their payment some take lecture s 4 the sake of teaching
2 people like this
@boogasmom (149)
• United States
18 Jan 07
I agree that if teachers salaries were based on test scores and the grades of our children, they would not loose faith in our children so fast. If one child has a learning problem, the teacher is more appt to leave him/her behind then to give a little extra. What do they care? They still get paid the same either way. Not saying that all teachers are like that, but there are some. I can honestly say that my children have had and have wonderful teachers that really Do care about thier education and thier future.
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Jan 07
I think if teachers' pay was based on their students grades there would be a lot less people that go into teaching. Wanting to teach is usually a calling a person feels to help children but those people need to pay their bills. The added stress of making their students perform well on tests would cause many teachers to just quit and more people to not even want to get into it. Plus, like the person above said, there is no way to make a student learn if they don't want to. A teacher could be putting every ounce of her being into teaching these kids but they could still fail and then what--she gets paid less for all her hard work. I think the idea is flawed at the basis. Student grades aren't always a direct correlation on how much effort a teacher puts into teaching. Teaching is a very high stress and sometimes very dangerous job. Teachers don't just work 40 hour weeks like most people. They are there an hour early and stay hours late and do work on weekends and grade papers after school. They deal with emotional problems their students have and are expected to know how to handle every situation. Inner city teachers put their lives at risk everyday they go to work. You never know when a bad grade or remark in class might result in a student shooting you or stabbing you. If anything teachers should be getting twice the amount they get now, no matter how their students are doing. My best friend is a high school English teacher at a school for kids that have been kicked out of their other schools. They are the ones no one else wants and it is a daily struggle just to get them to school. Most of these kids come from the inner city. Many of the kids at school wear dirty, raggedy clothes. Some only eat while they are at school (one meal a day and on weekends they don't eat). How do students learn if they are starving when they get to school because their parents can't afford food for them. They have no one at home to talk to or help them with their homework because either their parents work or just don't care. I think teachers in the US try very hard and put more effort into their jobs then they get paid for. Having their students' grades determine their pay would be like a slap in the face. Not to mention that standardized tests mean nothing and do not judge what a person learns. They only judge how a person takes a test.
1 person likes this
19 Jan 07
4monster4me- At my children’s school, one and only one teacher, sent home a survey for parents to fill out on their children’s learning habits. Then he observed them for a week. Now his room is divided up in to sections. One section those children learn best by reading the information. Another section from having hands one. Another by music. and well I can't remember the other section. This was his choice, not the schools. He makes as much as the teacher across the hall that told me all year my child was a fine reader. Come to find out at the end of year, she is a year behind in reading! Now I am a volunteer parent, no training at all. I run a volunteer program that helps struggling readers. Most are not only struggling but are problematic students the teachers just want out of their classroom for a while. We volunteer parents have seen more results out of our students than has been seen in the class room in years. We find out what works and go from there. Nothing more than that. BTW we only see these kids once a week for 30 minutes. That tells me something. All it takes is motivation and determination and that horse will drink that water.
1 person likes this
@soccio97 (39)
• United States
18 Jan 07
It is a good idea. However, it is extremely difficult to determine a teachers ability based on the pass/fail rate of the children she teaches. There are just too many variables from school to school as well as class to class. Some schools have all the tools they need and teach students whos parents have the money to ensure they also have all the right tools at home. Other schools struggle to obtain the technology and instructional aids needed to properly teach children. Many children struggle, not only because of the inability of their parents to provide what is needed for school, but also because of other stress factors at home. I think that a system should be established to provide periodic performance reports. The reports would come from "Evaluators" assigned to each school district. In that way there wouldn't be any "Friends" evaluating individuals. The evaluations would have to be done 2 or 3 times a year in order to be fair. That way a teacher couldn't claim that they were just having a "bad day". Naturally there are a lot more details to be worked out but it is the only fair system I can see.
19 Jan 07
I understand your point completely, but there a few things I want to address and explain. I have been watching money roll in my child's 85% free lunch, school for years now. See because so many children are on free to reduce lunch we get extra funding. Then there is the PTA, the money they bring in is sickening. There is also the volunteer reading program, more funding for having that. We are a Title 1 School, you got it, more funding. There are also other areas we receive money, but I can’t think off the top of my head at the momment. Now I am a setting member on my child's School-Based Decision Making (SBDM). We had a meeting last year towards the end, to figure out how to spend the excess moneys in the schools account. See if we didn't spend it, we would receive less money next year. It was a job to figure out what to use the money on! The tools are there, this day and time, trust me if the tools aren't thats because you have someone blowing the funds and not using them where they should go. Now as to the testing, the classrooms in the elementary schools here in my state can only have 25 – 27 students. Out of those maybe 5 are impossible to teach or are hard to teach children. A collective test score averaging all the students in the class, could fairly reflect the success rate in the room for that year. Thus providing adequate evidence as to whether or not the Teacher did perform her job sufficiently IMO. On a side note, what makes this idea so appealing to me, are teachers like the following. Last year a teacher was busted for doing her side job of tax returns during school, while her class had “free time” for 2 hours. She is still teaching since there wasn’t much of a hand slap for it. BUT of course every one of our teachers who now have her students, are complaining how these kids know very little of the skills they should have been taught the previous year when she had them. To me, this is not right. She can’t be fired, this didn't consitute grounds for termination of a Teacher, the Teachers Union had her back. So, I think a pay based on a class room evaluation would rid us of these poor teachers and be a HUGE step in the improvement of our children’s education.
1 person likes this
@kfg20012003 (1037)
• India
19 Jan 07
A teachers experience, education, and/orcertification relates to a students achievement.Higher teacher salaries attract teachers with more experience, higher education levels, and advanced certification,,but if they bring this kind of system the presently working teachers cannot survive in this field,they will have to improve a lot,else their postion will go to those with good experience
• Philippines
19 Jan 07
ya, i agree with you.. result matters.. tolerating good results improves the standards while ignoring bad results gives slow growth to improvement.
1 person likes this
• India
19 Jan 07
if teacher's salaries were based on the success of students,education would have improved greatly. the teachers will become more dedicated and children would like the teaching too if the teachers are gretaly dedicated. some teachers will be dedicated even without this,but some merely think of money,also there are other catagories of teachers too.but teaching of the teacher and undestanding of the student depends on the dedication of teacher. so that idea will improve the quality of education definitely. but their salaries not have to be completetely dependent on the students success,because the students have to be dedicated and should have the will to learn too.so the complete participation of both students and teachers require for this idea.
• India
19 Jan 07
Why now and then people balme teacher, my father is teacher herein India. I do not know about American education ssystem. But surely here in India Teacher pay more attenetion to students than just taking their low payment.
@minerc (1373)
• United States
19 Jan 07
I agree, They rate our children on there performance and abilities why can't we as parents rate them. My Children have had some great teachers and some awful ones. If I could have decreased there pay because of there lack of teaching skills maybe they would get the message to find a different Job that better suites there abilities.
@maru_047in (1007)
• India
19 Jan 07
Ya ofcourse it must have been done i think so it would have a great succes than is it their in the foreign countries. In india it should b done first so that they ll have an impression to do the job correctly.
@aneer72 (179)
• India
19 Jan 07
It would defenitely improve the success rate and also motivate the teachers who are being payed the same whether they produce good sucess rates for their students or not.
1 person likes this
@UcoksBaBa (800)
• Indonesia
19 Jan 07
I agreed with you, like that happened in Indonesia the Teacher's pay was very low throught to education that was given by them not maximal because they the teachers not in paid with in accordance with their dedication towards education the Student's
1 person likes this
@bkalafut (49)
• United States
19 Jan 07
Here's a better idea: privatize the education system and have the for-profit business or non-profit foundations running the schools determine this on their own. In a free market superior practices are recognized and adopted. Yes, as a stop-gap measure, merit pay, or better yet, firing bad teachers, would be good, as would actually changing school rules to strengthen curricula and allow teachers to better deal with problem students. The trouble is, teachers are unionized and it'll be just as hard a fight to break the union as it would be to privatize. Or perhaps harder, given that busting the NEA hasn't caught on, but vouchers, tax credits, and charter schools are becoming more common.
1 person likes this
• United States
19 Jan 07
It sounds like a good idea to pay according to progress of the students. BUT... What about the teachers who teacher in lower class communites, english as a second language, or have children disablilities? When I say disabilities, I mean, ADD, ADHD, vision, hearing problems, ALL physical and learning disabilities. My son being Autistic, yes get extra help from an aide or other teacher, but he is in a "regular" education program with all different types of kids. Most you would concider as normal! This particular school is not the best in the community as far as children are concerned, but it was where I had to send him for the extra support he needed to make it this far! Granted, he would be an excpetion since he is on top of his class, but many struggle because of language issues and other developmental problems! Do these teachers get a break? How would this work? CC
@katty0004 (386)
• United States
19 Jan 07
If they did this wouldn'y them teachers make sure that their students were getting their education that they need to get , wouldn't it make the teacher focus more on the students learning even the slower students .
1 person likes this
• Philippines
19 Jan 07
It is a good idea I guess, in companies they are doing that. Increasing your pay based on your performance or even giving you a promotion. Teachers or being a teacher as some may say is one of the hardest job on Earth but I see some who are tired of teaching but still doing it for the salary. The quality of education is deteriorating because of that, giving incentives is a great idea. Performance is much better than the "degree" that you took up in college.
@mom2boys (334)
• United States
19 Jan 07
I like this idea, I think it may help with our kids, I know when I was in school, my teachers *most* didnt seem to care one way or the other if their students were learning the stuff they were teaching so why not give them an incentive..might just work!
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Jan 07
i would say that this is a great idea cause then those students who have truoble would get the one on one triaing they need cause it directly influences them.
1 person likes this