February 13, 2007 3:56pm CST
i just stumbled accross a few interesting but amusing articles about a group created for gay and lesbian jehovas witnesses. i have been acquainted with many people from this religion, and know some who have been DFed (disfellowshipped) for being suspected of being gay. this is a huge infraction on their beliefs, so for me to find out there is actually an LGBT faction makes no sense. good for them, i say. but it sucks that others were unceremoniously removed from their religion for the same reasons. who is to blame? the ones that did the kicking out or the ones who created a group to allow these people to stay in the religion? because obviously one of the 2 have to be wrong? you can`t have it both ways, or can you? any opinions? for more info you can read a bit more about this here: http://www.montrealmirror.com/ARCHIVES/2002/080102/divers3.html what strikes me as even strnger, is that this article was written in 2002, which i think was the same year the people i know were DFed.
• United States
24 Feb 07
I know a gay Jehovah. I know a gay Mormon as well. Unfortunately, certain people who claim Christianity don't take into account the historical times in which the Bible was written or the various translations and interpretations in which the Bible has been involved. Not to mention the portions of the Bible that were destroyed or hidden. I think the rogue groups of gay people who have managed to retain their religion despite their orientation have come to terms with the hatred that exists and still maintain that the basic doctrines of the religion are to be believed and studied and accepted, but they don't agree with all of it. I would like to direct you to a website: www.gaychristiansurvivors.com Might give you a bit of insight on how many gay people have reconciled their faith with their inborn sexuality.
24 Feb 07
thanx for the input! i believe i understand the views of the gay group of witnesses. like many other christians who have come out as gay but do not deny their religious beliefs, i think times are changing. what interests me more is the aspect of the religion itself shunning these people (as pointed out right here), because being gay, and especially advocating it are thought to be going against everything the religion stands for. since the religion itself (or basically the people who are actively part of it and follow all the (supposed) rules)is in charge of DFing someone who breaks the rules, i think there is a small nuance compared to various other religions. in other religions, people may shun or look down on you for going against the grain. but i think jehovas witnesses are the only people i've come across which have the whole rule about being disfellowshipped. okay, being "disfellowed" is just a word, but i think it has a huge weight in terms of social acceptance in the religion. in other words, it's a tag burned into your forehead, not just people avoiding you or telling you your views are wrong. being called a heretic, to me, seems more broad then saying someone has been DFed. it's almost a "bad word" the way i perceive it. someone with the tag of DF...can they ever live it down (other than making up for their sins to be accepted back)? (slightly off on a tangent, but anyways ;) )
• United States
24 Feb 07
I can see where you are coming from. I, thankfully, have never been a part of a sect that believes that God won't welcome all his children. And, although the Methodists have de-frocked gay ministers, it certainly isn't the same as being excommunicated. So Gay Jehovahs start their own denomination of the religion. The Roman Catholic church was the first to break away from the Orthydox Catholic church and the RC is the more known of the two. Still, they hold to the same basic doctrines and rituals. I believe that the Mormon church does likewise with it's gay parishoners, although I am not certain.
24 Feb 07
thx for all the info you've contributed to this discussion! it's interesting to see this topic flourish - in a non-threatening way - between 3 people from obviously different sides of the fence, yet being able to understand each others' points, even if we can't accept them. to each his own, of course! ;) but you seem to come from a more traditional religious viewpoint, bedazzled is a witness, and i am, well...nothing really. i have no religious beliefs, but am interested in learning about other peoples' religions and views. my ex was a jehovas witness who took himself out of the order because he felt he was going against many of their beliefs, often stating "i AM satan". now, though he was not satan lol, he definitely was a bad bad person. the kind that lies to everyone including himself, the kind to betray his best friend, a hypocrite, someone following his own will and certainly not god's or jehova's. someone who will repeatedly cheat on his partners and try to get something for nothing, you see where i'm going... when he was in the brotherhood, he talked so highly of his brothers (and sisters) and once he left, he spat venom at them like i've never seen. really hateful words towards people who had nothing to do with keeping him in his religion (example, a neighbour who often invited him to dinner when he had no money to eat....now, why would he be angry with such a person who tried to help him?). after doing really awful things to me and the next 3 girls he went out with, he has apparently now gone back to being a witness, but i think he is up to his old tricks. the way his newest girlfriend was acting in public made me think he was not living according to jehova's rules (again). let's just say she was extremely lewd, rubbing up against him in a public place, being utterly obnoxious. all he did was stand there and take it, with a half-smile. it's people like him who i think, according to bedazzled should be warned away from the rest of the people in the religion. he is the kind of person that can tarnish their name, and taint the 'other apples'. his other family members have gone in and out of the religion so many times, it's not even funny ;) but none of them seem to want to truly devote themselves to their god, in the true sense of the word 'devotion'. if you keep leaving a religion every time you decide you want to marry a non-witness, screw around with multiple partners, become 'gay', become a stripper, etc....it doesn't look to me that you really are material worthy of such a religion. if you are gay, be gay! if you intend to live as a sinner, be a sinner! trying to be both good and bad at the same time is much too much of an energy drainer, and reflects poorly on the other folks who are serious about living an honest and good life. (again, the rotting apples analogy). i think people like my ex run towards a religion when they feel they need 'saving', and as soon as they feel strong again, they will leave or get DFed because their lifestyle just does NOT co-habitate with being a full-hearted witness.