who is to blame for this murder?
By winterose
@winterose (39887)
Canada
March 8, 2007 11:18pm CST
okay any discussion where there isn't really a right or wrong answer. Everyone will have a different one.
I am going to tell you a story, you are to rate the people in the story according to most to blame to least to blame and give your reason why.
For example Mrs. Brown is most to blame because ....
the exactly people in this story I am about to tell are:
Mary
Peter
Tom
the ferry boat captain
the fool
How for the story, Mary and Peter have been married for 7 years and have no children. Mary is a housewife and Peter is a workaholic. He works into the wee hours of the night and is hardly ever home, leaving Mary by herself most of the time.
Mary was so lonely that she found herself a boyfriend who lived on the other side of the river. This evening when she found out her husband was not going to come home again until after she had already gone to bed. She just had to get out of the house. She wanted to go to her boyfriend's, but she had no money for cab or bus fare.
She decided she would walk all the way there. It was better than staying in the house alone. On her way there she had to cross the bridge and she met a crazy guy on the bridge who scared her so she ran all the way to her boyfriend's house to get away from him.
When she got there her and her boyfriend ending up in an argument over the crazy guy. He did not comfort her and she felt she was being neglected. She decided she would just go home. She asked Tom her boyfriend for money to go home but because she wasn't staying he refused to give her any.
She left anyway. But as soon as she got to the river she remembered the crazy man on the bridge and she was afraid to go back on it to get home. She decided she would take her chance and explain to the ferry boat captain how she needed to get home and she had no money and there was a crazy man on the bridge. She hoped he would take pity on her and let her on.
The ferryboat captain refused and she was forced to cross the bridge again.
While crossing the bridge she met up once again with the crazy man and this time he killed her.
Who is the blame for the murder?
Place your answers in terms of who is most the blame to who is the least to blame,
here are the players again, 1 is the most to blame 5 is the least to blame.
Mary the wife
Peter the husband
Tom the boyfriend
the ferryboat captain
the fool (crazy man)
please give the reasons for your choices
5 people like this
24 responses
@Artsimba (1334)
• United States
9 Mar 07
1. The crazy man (the fool) is the first to blame because he was the one who killed her.
2. Mary is the second to be accountable for her own demise because she should have divorced the husband before starting another relationship.
3. Tom, the boyfriend is the third to blame because if he was a good boyfriend he would have been more caring for his girlfriend who it seems to me he was just using.
4. Peter, the husband is the fourth to blame because he should have had known you can't be married and not even try to have a loving relationship and work all the time.
5. The ferryboat captain is the least to blame because even though he could have had some compassion for Mary's plight, he let her go on her own without even trying to help.
2 people like this
@Artsimba (1334)
• United States
9 Mar 07
Thanks. I think the story was excellent for a discussion topic. You really came up with a great idea. Loved it. I Hope you have some more. I think everyone, including me, thinks they each had the right answer. lol I also wanted to tell you that I think it's great you have a 10 in your star. Good luck in MyLot. There's so many members at here at MyLot it seems we all get lost in the mix. But, I have a feeling our paths will cross again.
@scorpiobabes (7225)
• United States
9 Mar 07
1 Mary
2 fool/crazy man
3 Tom (boyfriend)
4 Peter
5 ferry boat captain
My reasoning behind this: Mary truly was stupid. a) she was married and should have tried to work it out with Pete (although this doesn't always work, divorce is an option) b) she KNEW that there was a crazy man on the bridge and still went back that way c) why continue to go somewhere where there's no money to go??? d) just make nice with the boyfriend to get the money.
There is such a thing as fate--that crazy man was going to kill whoever was on the bridge. But it was HIS CHOICE to kill Mary.
Peter was a fool--if he was home and took care of his wife emotionally she wouldn't have sought the boyfriend out or been out that night at all!
Tom the boyfriend prolly should have listened to Mary but there was other underlying issues and the relationship might have ended that night, crazy man or not.
The ferryboat captain is running a business--if he listened to everyone about crazy men on bridges, he might end up broke!
Harsh I know, but that's how I feel.
2 people like this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
I like your reasonning, all debates bring up good points for each character in this story that is why no one can say which is right and which is wrong, the fun is the debate
@comedyaddict (772)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
What in interesting discussion!
Guilty Parties:
1) The crazy man. He killed her, pure and simple. Even if he is crazy, he did the deed.
Not Guilty Parties but still sharing some responsibility:
These are all really second equal to me, but for this discussion, here goes...
2) The husband: Why did Mary have no money for a bus or cab, when her husband was a workaholic??? He should have also been home with his wife.
3) The Ferryman: Should have helped a woman who appears to be scared.
4) The boyfriend: Should have given her money for a bus.
5) Mary: Should have looked for another bridge.
1 person likes this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
I like the point you brought up about the workaholic and why mary didn't have money if he was working so much,
maybe that was why he was working so much, he didn't have enough money?
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
or he could be running his own business and he is the only employee and he has no choice but to work long hours, like my boyfriend, who is not making a great living but he is making a living and pulling in long hours to do it.
@comedyaddict (772)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
LOL.. that could open up a whole new discussion...
Generally workaholics are people who earn a salary since most companies wont want to pay extra wages and over time; so he must love his job more then his wife, since he probably isn't there for the extra money, unless he's trying to get a promotion... :)
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (63235)
• United States
9 Mar 07
1, the fool - well he did kill her!
2, Mary - she was fooling around, if she had been a loyal wife she wouldn't have been on the bridge in the first place.
3, Tom - he didn't provide her money - but it wasn't really his job to do so.
4, the ferry boat captain - he didn't have to carry her, it wasn't his job to give free rides to people that might be lying.
Now, either one of these 2 could've allowed her to call the police to report the crazy guy on the bridge - but Mary didn't seem to have asked, so...
5, Peter - if he hadn't been a workaholic he would've been home & Mary wouldn't have been out looking for love in all the wrong places....
I put the blame mostly on the fool - because I really have a problem with the insanity defence - very few people are really that crazy (as I told a judge once when I was in a jury pool. No, I wasn't selected.)
2 people like this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
when I did this in school, I rated it the exact same way as you did. Of course each group had different answers and reasons why
@getcally17 (55)
• Portugal
10 Mar 07
Peter should be blamed for not living up to His responsibilities, and the least to be blame is the ferry boat captain.
Peter
Boat captain
Boyfriend, tom.
Crazy man.
1 person likes this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
10 Mar 07
okay but what about the other three people, each of them contributed in some way to what happened.
@bettyrose20 (997)
• Philippines
9 Mar 07
mary is most to blame because she wont be killed if she didnt go to her bf's house that night
the boyfriend is next because if he just give her money she would had taken the boat
tom is next because if he just given more time with her wife she wouldnt have time to find another man
ferryboat captian is next because if he had given her a lift, she wouldnt be killed
finally, the crazy man..he is crazy he didnt know what he did
1 person likes this
@brckoba (795)
• United States
9 Mar 07
Wow.
1- The fool he killed Mary
2-Peter. If he had not work as much, his wife would not have had the necessity of companionship, thus look for a boyfriend. If she had not look for a boyfriend non of this would have happened.
3-Mary. If she had stay home instead of putting herself in a dangerous situation, the murder wouldn't have happened.
4-Tom. If had been a little more understanding Mary wouldn't have to go back on the bridge.
5- The ferryboat captain. He was just doing his job.
@SpitFire179 (2536)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
1. Mary - She did this herself, she made all of these mistakes and walked right into trouble.
2. The Fool - He killed her, so he's about as guilty as she is!
3. Tom The Boyfriend - He should have been more considerate and should have cared enough about her to give her either a little bit of money to get home or found her a way to get back safely.
4. Peter The Husband - He should have given her a little bit more attention, though you can't blame this on him, she should have aired her thoughts.
5. Ferry Boat Captain. - He was just doing his job, there's nothing anyone can do about that, everyone needs to get by, he was doing what he needed so that he could.
This is a good discussion, this is just my opinion, i think that a person makes their own bed, and it's their job to sleep in it. If this Mary wasn't caring enough to voice her opinion to her husband and tell him how she was feeling with the situation, then it's just as much her fault as the murderer.
And according to this story, it seems like she tried to get pity for everything, another HUGE mistake.
@villageanne (8553)
• United States
9 Mar 07
This is an easy one. The crazy guy is to blame because he killed her. There is no excuse for a murder. There is nobody else to blame.
The wife is guilty of having an affair but she is still not to blame for the murder.
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
each have different levels that is why 1 is strong and 5 is very weak, but they all have to be coded, it is a debate,
for me the husband is not guilty at all, but I have to rate so he would definitely be number 5 because it is the weakest number I can give him.
@villageanne (8553)
• United States
9 Mar 07
I really dont see that anyone else is to blame for the murder itself.
@retardedrugrat (4791)
• Canada
10 Mar 07
I have to say all of them.
1. The fool - after all, he did kill her.
2. Her husband - if he hadn't been a workaholic, Mary wouldn't have felt the need to go get herself a new boyfriend.
3. Mary herself - she shouldn't have been fooling around with another guy, then she wouldn't have been on the bridge in the first place.
4. The boyfriend - for being an utter idiot and not comforting her and refusing to give her money for a cab home.
5. The ferryboat captain for refusing her passage.
1 person likes this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
10 Mar 07
the thing I like about this one is that there are good arguments for each one of them being the most to blame or the least to blame. It is a wonderful exercise
@lillyland (1)
•
9 Mar 07
This is pretty difficult. I remember a 'vignette'(sp?) from when i was a t school which was similar to this one.
I'd say:
The fool - he is the one who killed her!
The boyfriend- He knew her situation and knew it was unsafe for her to use the bridge.
Mary - She's the one playing everyone for a fool, and the one who took the risk
The ferry boat man- I'd have put him higher, but at the end of the day, its his livelihood, how was he to know she wasn't just playing him for a fool?
The husband - yeah, he began the chain of events, but he's only working to look after his wife.
@ZenDove (698)
• United States
9 Mar 07
Boy, this takes me back to logic and ethics classes in college. Here's my take on things:
1. Mary - Although I applaud her initiative at finding a boyfriend to fill the void in her life, her judgement was seriously impaired. The men in her life that night all played the role of "jerk" to varying degrees but the ultimate responsibility for her personal safety was her own. How do you convince yourself to walk, after dark, alone and over some distance, to see a man who doesn't care enough to pick you up or to send a taxi for you? I might have gone somewhere but it sure wouldn't have been to see Tom! Most bizarre, how do you go back to the maniac after being blessed to get by him the first time? I am not understanding her lack of self-preservation, at all.
2. Peter - I really wanted to put Tom here just because I dislike him so much, but that wasn't the question. Peter had more responsibility to Mary than Tom. Peter made vows to her, he was her mate. What kind of a man leaves his woman penniless for hours on end? A husband has no one to blame for his lack of attention to his wife but himself.
3. Tom - Oh, what a colossal jerk! But that doesn't make him responsible beyond human decency. Of course, he didn't even meet the most basic standards of human decency. I could give a lecture on the disappointing behavior of this guy. Suffice it to say, he showed less concern toward a woman he was sleeping with than he would for a stray dog. Perhaps his mother should have been on the list to share the blame for raising this creep!
4. The Ferryboat captain - He's the CAPTAIN, for pete's sake! You mean he couldn't grant a few minutes passage to a frightened woman who was all alone? Even if she were running a scam, the few bucks weren't coming out of his pocket. It's not like she was trying to stow away to Bermuda. He must not have any daughters.
5. The crazy guy - He's the only one who behaved true to form that night. Mary wasn't acting like a wife, Tom may not have been acting like a human being but this guy was sure acting like a maniac - which is exactly what he is. You don't blame a dog when he barks and you can't blame a maniac when he kills.
That was a provocative exercise, Carol. I'm going to recommend this discussion to folks on my friends list.
1 person likes this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
thank you so much zendove, I try to come up with interesting and fresh ideas. I have a few more discussions centering around ethics that you might like to respond to.
@Gabrielle1609 (278)
• Singapore
9 Mar 07
1 Mary the wife----if she remained faithful to her husband, she wouldn't have gone out in the first place...
2 Tom the boyfriend---- For not believing Mary about the fool...
3 The boatman---- for not helping even when told about the fool...
4 Peter the husband---- for not spending time with mary...
5 The Fool---- if he really is crazy, he wouldn't even know what the hell he was doing...
1 person likes this
@switsixteen (28)
•
9 Mar 07
i think the person to blame is the husband because if he gave attention to is wife and spend time with her.then her wife shouldn't have any affair to another man then non of this ever happen.if mary didn't find a boyfriend then he never left home on the middle of the night and have a walk then she wouldn't have met the crazy guy and got killed but on the other hand if peter wasn't an workaholic then she would be with her wife on the night then mary shouldn't have to lived Furthermore the boyfriend is also on the wrong because she didn't gave any money to mary if he really love mary then he would have been worried for mary like if something happens to her on the way home coz she have to walk home bcoz he didn't gave her any money and also on the first place he knew that mary had a husband then he shouldn't have an affair then also non of this ever happen...that is just wrong and like everybody was on the wrong...
1 person likes this
@jewel76 (2305)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
ok, so the first to blame, would be the husband, for not being there for his wife, choosing work over her, and working late every night. Then would be the wife Mary, for cheating on her husband, and going out alone at night so late. Then would be the boyfriend Tom, for being stupid and not giving Mary some money for her to get back home safely. Then would be the ferryboat captain, for ignoring a scared woman's plea. And lastly, the crazy man for actually committing the crime itself.
1 person likes this
@Patswords (189)
• United States
9 Mar 07
1. The Crazy Man who actually killed her.
2. Mary for putting her self at risk.
3. Tom for not giving her money foe transportation when he knew that there was a Crazy Man out there.
4. The ferry boat Captin for not helping when she told him about the Crazy Man.
5. I don't feel that Peter should have any blame. Mary made the choice to go out. She should have stayed home and seduced Peter when he did get home.
@davis123 (507)
• United States
10 Mar 07
thanks for posting this this was really easy to figure out first it would be the crazy fool man because after all he did kill her next would be mary herself she was the one fooling around no one told her to do that next would be the ferry boat guy he could of helped her she told him she relly need it and about the crazy guy and whta not lastly but not lest her husband well he didnt really do any that caused her to die well thats my opion thanks again for posting
1 person likes this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
that is the whole picture as given my the school for the assigment, and you have to rate according the information given, who you felt was the most to the least to blame.
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
because it was not the purpose of the exercise,
it is not important why nobody called the police to if they did there maybe would not be an ethical debate,
you are making things more complicated than they have to be, it is a discussion not real life. This scenario did not happen.
The more you complicate the story the more you change it, and the more you change it the less of reason for the debate in the first place.
there is enough information in this exercise to form a basic opinion, this is not a court of law and there are no right and wrong answers because and it is purposely designed that way. What the important part of the exercise is is not the answer but how you the participant views life, it gives a glimpse to your ethical judgements, your world view, your cultural bias,
I would imagine if it went to a court of law the only one on the hook would be the crazy man because he actually killed her and then it would be decided if he knew what he was doing and on the outcome of the said examination and court trial would a real binding decision be made,
but that is the not the scope of this exercise in ethics,
@Kchele (77)
• United States
9 Mar 07
The Fool - he is the one who intentionally killed her so he is first to blame.
Peter the Husband - because he shouldn't have been working so many long hours and not paying attention to his wife.
Mary the Wife - she should have talked to her husband about this, telling him how she felt. Then she never would have gotten a boyfriend and therefore never would have crossed the bridge and met The Fool.
Tom - I just put him here because, well, I dunno. I don't really think he should be blamed though.
The Ferry Boat Captain - He was just doing his job, its not his fault at all.
1 person likes this
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
thank you for your answers, I love how everyone is seeing it differently.
@touchofjupiter (157)
• United States
9 Mar 07
I believe that the real killer is her husband. He was supposedly working late, never showed. It couldn't be her boyfriend because he was home just after the first event and unless he ran himself out of breath to get there, I don't think it was enough time for him to get there and be able to greet her at the door (since she traveled the same distance, they would likely reach the same place at the same time -- remember, she was running). The ferry boat captain would have had a little trouble changing his scenery that fast, too.
The crazy man on the bridge was her husband all along.
@winterose (39887)
• Canada
9 Mar 07
interesting way of thinking but there are all 5 players in this scene and the husband is working late, the wife left the house to be with her boyfriend when she knew he was working late. But quite interesting, the way you looked it the situation.
