Welfare, Good or Bad?
By PunkyMcPunk
@PunkyMcPunk (1477)
Canada
March 25, 2007 3:09pm CST
Here in Canada we have a welfare system, I guess it's now called a more politically correct name but whatever. I'm sure most countries have some sort of program along the same lines, I know the USA does anyways....
My question is, do you think it is a good thing or a bad thing?
I think the IDEA of it is wonderful. In Canada, it was created shortly after WW2. This was because we lost alot of men (soldiers) to the war. The wives left back home were just that housewives, very few had college educations, or training.
These women now had to look after their families and find some way to make money. The Canadian government decided to create a welfare program which would give these families food stamps and what not to allow them to live until the parent found employment or could support the family. Back then it was wonderful, mind you the money these families got wasn't anything compared to these days.... But it allowed the time needed for these women to get educated and trained or find a job.
These days there are some... SOME people that need it, people who lose their jobs, or have to quit to take care of family etc....
But A LOT of people (I personally could name off close to 75 people) are on welfare and they don't need it. They work the system so they don't have to work.
I work hard at my job. I have worked since I was 11 yrs old. It bothers me that I work 40-60 hours a week at my job, don't get to spend the time I would like to with my son and lots of people I know sit around, play video games, don't even TRY to get a job and they are getting welfare cheques that are about the same that I get from my job. THAT SEVERELY BOTHERS ME!!!
Sigh, what do you think?
6 people like this
28 responses
@Smith2028 (797)
• United States
25 Mar 07
Welfare in the US is a horrible mess. The idea is wonderful- Help those who cant help themselves get back on the right track.
However, too many people have learned to cheat the system. They have learned that there are easy ways around the rules and they take advantage of it.
What needs to happen is an overhaul of the system. Take those currently on welfare and limit benefits. If they stop looking for a job, stop their benefits. If they refuse to work, refuse benefits. If they continue having kids so their check continues to go up, refuse benefits and put the kids in a foster home. It may sound harsh, but it is what needs to happen.
4 people like this
@PunkyMcPunk (1477)
• Canada
25 Mar 07
I couldn't agree more. What I thought is hire people (creating jobs as well) to go around and randomly check up on these people. Ask for copies of places they had submitted resumes too and check the list. Randomly show up at their homes to ensure they have food there for their children, etc....
2 people like this
@michele609 (1687)
• United States
26 Mar 07
I also agree with you, what I think should happen is, they should help find jobs for these people and once they put them in employment, then that person is responsible to hold that job. I live in New Jersey and what they do here is make people that are on welfare go to school, either to get some type of certifacation or a diploma!
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
25 Mar 07
yeh, we have an extensive system here in the states. one that alomst seems to encourage laziness.
3 main catagories....food assisntance (used to be food stamps but now its a set of benifites loaded on to a card similar to a credit card. medical, commonly known nationaly as medicaid, covers everything in 2 tiers, either completely free or for a very nominal fee of a few dollars. and then cash assistance. the third is the hardest to qualify for. but if you have children uner 5 youi can probably get it.
a great number of people seem to abuse this in numerous ways. the common thing is to keep having kids as the others out grow the eligability age.
i have worked hard all my life and it sometimes enrages me to see poeple living very well off my tax dollars while i struggle with a job. i guess ive just been doing it wrong all these years *shrug*
@PunkyMcPunk (1477)
• Canada
25 Mar 07
Well foodstamps might be something, or even the card that the USA has. But here in Canada, you just get a goevernment cheque every month. So essentially you can spend that on whatever you want.... At least with foodstamps and the like people would have to by some percentage of food stuffs.
2 people like this
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
25 Mar 07
Actually, we only have the remnant of a welfare system left here in the States. The reason for is that it got very liberal, much like what you describe in Canada and the pendulum swung the other way. Probably too far the other way. The only people left eligible for any cash assistance in the US are mothers with children under seven and the minute the youngest is seven, they are no longer elibible. Americans can still get foodstamps though. As for medical assistance, forget it. I think most modern countries have some sort of welfare state. At least they have a National Health Care program which the US doesn't.
I can understand being bothered by what you see around you but you're still better off working. Not only are you self sufficient but your job will give you more money and promotions as time goes on while those who sit too long on welfare wind up with nothing but welfare. Whatever, I hope some system stays in place for you guys up there. I used to be a caseworker for the welfare system down here and I can tell you that a lot of people really needed some help and they were very cruelly cut off in the 1990's.
3 people like this
@nelly5 (1424)
• United States
25 Mar 07
Actually in the United States you can get cash assistance for any child you have under the age of 18. Well at least here in Ohio you can. Also, anyone that qualifies can get cash/food and medical benefits. The thing that Ohio has done in order to get people to work is that once you get benefits, you have to be looking for a job and if you don't get one by a certian time, you will do some sort of community service work for your benefits. The hours you have to work depends on how many children you have and whether you have a two parent home or a single parent home. I think that is a great thing that ohio has done, therefore less people are sitting around and just living off the system. =)
2 people like this
@susan50 (110)
• United States
25 Mar 07
The welfare system here in Michigan is terrible. They don't have any control over the people that fraud them constantly, yet when someone that really needs help applies, they are usually turned down because they don't have a qualifying child. Don't get me wrong the idea of the system is good. I was on it myself years ago, when I did get a job and didn't need it , I actually received more cash assistance while working. The only thing that they cut was my food assistance & that went to I think it was like $37 a month in food stamps(years ago). I had a sister that was on it for years, even got married and had two more kids while on it. She thought they owed it to her, go figure. I had a friend that would go out & get pregnant just so she didn't have to get a job and go off it, she ended up having eight kids on it so her monthly allowance was unreal, plus she told them she was separated from her husband yet he actually lived there with her and he was working and had a very good paying job.
The creation of the welfare system was done with good intentions, but over the course of the past twenty years, too many people have been able to manipulate and abuse it.
@nelly5 (1424)
• United States
25 Mar 07
I think that welfare is a great thing. I do get bothered by people who use to sit around and do nothing and collect benefits. But Ohio has done something to change that. Now when getting benefits in Ohio, you must be working, if you don't have a job, the county will place you at a work site in order for you to do some community service. I was getting welfare at one time. At the time, I was a single mom of three children and I was a full-time student, I also worked a few part-time jobs. When I wasn't working enough hours at my paid job, I had to go do some community service for the county. But my school hours and study hours did count towards the hours of time I had to put in to qualify for benfits. I think welfare is a great benefit to many people. But even though Ohio has this.."ohio works first" program there are still people who cheat the system, people will go to the doctor and get notes saying they can't work for all kinds of reasons. Once a person has that, the county can not make them work for their benefits, therefore, they are back to living off the system and not having to do anything to get their benefits. Thanks for the post, have a great day.
2 people like this
@jjwatson28 (572)
• United States
26 Mar 07
ks is pretty much like ohio. You need to find a job in acertain amount of time or they put you to work.
@PunkyMcPunk (1477)
• Canada
25 Mar 07
Ohio sounds like it might have an idea there.
I like the idea of community work for wage. There are so many things that could be done that way, it would also give those folks a sense of having earned their wage.
2 people like this
@SimoneNichole (9)
• United States
25 Mar 07
The welfare system in NJ is not as bad as some of the place I just ead about. In NJ you can only collect welfare for 5 years total in your lifetime. My father just passed away and he was my younger sisters only means of support. She has a young daughter herself, and no one else in the family is able to really support her. She went to the welfare in our state. They got her daughter into child care and put her back into school so she can be sucessful for herself. Which I think is great. There are so many programs they have to offer. If someone is in the situation where they need to go to welfare, they need to take advantage of the education that is offered. That is what it is there for. I pay my taxes, and have for the last 16 years, If my taxes are going to help someone to better themselves, I'm all for it. In NJ it's called welfare to work. They are not allowed to sit home and do nothing. They have to do something in order to recieve the welfare, like school, or job training.
3 people like this
@PunkyMcPunk (1477)
• Canada
25 Mar 07
That is what the system is SUPPOSED to be there for and I embrace that aspect of it. But it is the abuse that gets me.
My cousin for example, she can completely work the system and I think she should be locked up for it.
She is on welfare, her husband collects welfare at a different address, she has both of her children on "disability pensions" because they are both Hyperactive... They take trips and go here and there...
I am not bashing the system for those that NEED it. I just wish there was a way to make it more effective.
1 person likes this
@weemam (13372)
•
26 Mar 07
it is the same here in Scotland , I have a disabled son ( now on My Lot) , he has to fight for every penny he has and yet there are those who lie and get far more because of it , I don't think it matters what country we live in there will always be the cheats who lie and win xx
@tishabest (602)
• Belgium
26 Mar 07
Everything has it's strengths and weaknesses and people will always try to take advantage. Here in Belgium it is much "social", people pay some 50% taxes and sometimes more OUTRAGEOUS right! There is very good health coverage and other benefits but to me that doesn't justify such high taxes.
Many are becoming disenchanted with this system and at some point I am sure it will crumble.
@daphnexuyan (74)
• China
26 Mar 07
You are very lucky born in a high welfare system country. In China,for a normal earner,if you pay 50% taxes,you may have no money to pay food,clothes,house ect. If my salary can solve the above problem, I would like to pay more taxes in sake of having a enjoyable life when I am old. Do you think so?
@Ravenladyj (22904)
• United States
26 Mar 07
In Ontario Welfare no longer exists...nor does Family (Mothers Allowance) welfare...now it is Ontario Works and yes you still get that gov. cheque BUT you have to attend seminars, regularly hand in resumes etc etc or they WILL cut you off...Even Disability isnt like what it used to be in Ontario...The reason the system changed so drastically is BECASUE OF the abusers of the system...I knew numerous ppl who were collecting one or MORE cheques AND working under the table back in the day...its thanks to them that the system is screwed up now....And (again this is Ontario) the cheque isnt that much..in fact its ALWAYS been barely enough to live on especially when you have kids to feed...MIND YOU with kids you get your B.Bonus but even then with the cost of living on the rise still, its not easy to survive on the system (those that truly need it I mean)
@design (849)
• Ireland
25 Mar 07
Welfare is great for those who need it, many people/ families just wouldn't survive without it, but the ropes need to be tightened to stop people using and abusing the system. I know here it's tightened up a lot but so much more needs to be done, and when it's done maybe those families who are still struggling to survive will be entitled to a little more.
2 people like this
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
25 Mar 07
Oh yeah our incapacity benefit is so weak it's been nicknamed the 'bad back' benefit.
I don't blame the lazy gits for claiming on it. I used to go to college with a guy who was absolutely fine but complained of a sore wrist from an accident he had years ago, which he admitted to us was a load of b*llocks. He was entitled to claim benefits though and because he had 5 or 6 kids he was getting quite a decent amount, and got his college courses and resources paid for.
It's crazy to think that the benefits agency agrees that people who are so incapacitated that they can't do any sort of job, are fully able to attend college and should have their courses paid for while the rest of us (who are often working so paying tax aswel) have to fork out over £1000 for it.
The guy said he wouldn't go back to work for less than £10 an hour because he earns more than that on incapacity benefit. Something not likely to happen with the little experience he had.
It get's worse though, I remember reading recently that they were giving underaged pregnant mothers money to have beauty treatment to 'boost their self esteem'.
2 people like this
@kurtbiewald (2625)
• United States
25 Mar 07
I think its a good measure of a society how it treats those who can't earn a living, for whatever reason.
@4ftfingers (1310)
•
25 Mar 07
I think it's good too, but only aslong as they encourage those who do have the capability to work, to do just that. At the moment it's too easy for the lazy and disshonest to slip through the net.
But yeh you are right, if people have a legitimate reason for not being able to earn a decent living then society should definately help.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
26 Mar 07
a poster a few pages back pointed out that when the u.s. welfare system was put into plce, very few people went on it and did so very quietly out of shame. It seems shame is a disapearing thing in this nation. From all aspects. Shame of recieving a handout , shame at things we may have done wrong, wrong is becomming a less frequently used word in describing morality and ethics today. Pride is another one, pride in acomplishing something, pride in providing for ones own self. Pride in not relying on the government for a living. Kids are taught in school that there is never anything to be ashameds of, and thqat pride in ones acomplishments makes others who may not be so successfull feel bad about themselves.
It seems today that a number of people who cheat the system are proud of it and brag to their friends and family about it. Several decades ago, such braggards would have been met with open and expressed distain. today, in some cxases they are celebrated as hero's who "fought the system". It would seem to me that parents on assistance would want to teach their children to avoid having to utilize it unless absolutley imparetive. Instead, children are learning that its an easy way to make a living (falsly so) and that they have the RIGHT to recieve it. Its no longer even called a benifite, its called an "ENTITLEMENT" I wasnt aware we were ENTITLED to anything but an environment in wich we can flourish and provide while being a productive member of society
@magikrose (5429)
• United States
26 Mar 07
I totally agreewith you. There are too many people abusing the system today. Here in the USA a person is allowed to be on welfare for max 21 months. I knew someone who abused the system to the point that she was on welfare for what seemed to be 5yrs or more. That really made me mad because at 1 time I had gone on welfare because I was pregnant and my mother kicked me out of the house. I was forced to move into a shelter and they got me on welfare to help me get some money to get an appartment and get on my feet.
Years later my husband and I ran into some major issues and tried to get financial assistance and we got turned down because I had already used my 21month expenses. They couldent help us at all, but yet this other person was able to be on welfare for over 5yrs. That really p*ssed me off.
It really sux that a family that needs the services and are always trying to find ways to get off the program so they dont abuse the program cant get the service but another person can come in and get assistance and just sit on there a$$ and do nothing to get themselves on there feet.
@sudiptacallingu (10879)
• India
26 Mar 07
I can understand your grudge but you should be grateful that there is a system of looking after people to can't get jobs. here in India, there is no such system and hapless individuals are reduced to begging, borrowing or stealing to make both ends meet (which reflects badly on society at large). the impact is more more on Indian women, most of whom have taken up jobs but with no support to take care of families. life has become soooooo stressful, its almost a miracle how indian women juggle home and office, what with very few of us having our own transport. most Indian women don't even get a guaranteed maternity leave. what i'm trying to say here is you should be thankful that atleast you have a system where you can take 6 months off if you dont feel like working, and the state is there to take care of you. there will always be some opportunists to milk the system to their advantage and we have to accept them with a pinch of salt!
@sjohnson628 (3197)
• United States
26 Mar 07
I think it is great for those who are in "need" of it. But it makes me angry when people abuse the sytem.
@Gemmygirl1 (2867)
• Australia
26 Mar 07
The welfare system in Australia is VERY good although, unlike the US, there's no time limit for how long you can be on there!
Here it's a little too easy to get on, stay on & mess around with the system.
In other cases it's hard to get on to certain sections of payments - i have an awful back from a car accident when i was 16 - no-one wants to hire me as i am an insurance risk (as in, if i hurt my back more while working) yet my gov doesn't think it's bad enough for me to be on disability - what can i do about that, there aren't many options for me work wise yet they cant seem to understand that.
ANYWAY, I only get a family tax benefit payment as i am a SAHM & my partner works so i'm not eligible for any other payment. If he wasn't around i would be getting a LOT of money coz you get a decent amount per child, plus all the usual payments.
I like the systems that helps you get out of trouble it's the one who use it just coz they're too lazy to work (coz they can make more doing nothing most of the time) that ruin it for others.
I have a family member who is expecting baby #4 - now, she has told the gov organisation that she is single with these kids which means she gets more money a month that my partner does working, now add on to that, the amount her boyfriend earns working (yes they are actually a couple) & they're swimming in it - they're the kinda of people i wanna just dob in coz it's not fair they get away with cheating the system for so long.
I think in some cases the gov makes it too easy but then in some of the more serious cases, they make it too difficult.
Maybe there should be an international system or something!
@daphnexuyan (74)
• China
26 Mar 07
Welfare is good thing, I think. Here in China,there is a large population. It is difficult for each person to enjoy a high standard of welfare. But fortunately,China can supply the welfare that most people can solve the problem of starvation as well as warm. But in our society,it is unfair of welfare system. If you are a staff in government, your slary after you retired will be 3 times more than the person who is a worker.
