Fourth Amendment V.S. the Administration/ security V.S. Constitution

United States
April 4, 2008 1:54pm CST
We in the United States have had a difficulty lately in balancing the rights granted under them 4th Ammendment and the desires for security post 9-11. We have in power an Administration which repeatedly invaded the personal privacy of U.S. and international citizens and that has, often without cause, and with the help of telecom companies, credit companies etc. and the CIA and NSA, has obtained personal information, listened in on conversations, recorded conversations, read and grabbed onto email conversations of people, in fishing expeditions without following the appropriate processes laid out for the Executive Branch to follow amoung other things. The problem with this Administration's behavior is not that he is wanting to protect the people or to insure that security needs are met, No. It is in the violation of the Constitution of the United States, namely the 4th ammendment which states: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,and effects against unreasonable search and seizures shall not be violated, and no Warrents shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched,and the persons or things to be seized." FindLaw: The U.S. Constitution: Fourth ammendment The Founding Fathers knew about security needs... They you need to remember actually were involved in fighting for the freedom we now enjoy and had far less security in their lives than we do now and far less stability. They were the founders of what was then a frail independent nation facing threats from Europe, from their own countrymen, some of whom remained loyalists to Britian and to other nations, and from an often hostile environment. They envisioned a nation that would protect the privacy of the residents of that nation as they had seen the abuses done by tyrants who disrespected the rights of the people. They wanted to preserve the right of the people to rebel against their leaders if their leaders were corrupt, violated the Constitution or attempted to become dictators and they knew that unless the people had the right to gather to discuss what to do about tyranny, write down their intermost thoughts, and express oppostition in writing or in whatever means possible, that right to rebel would not exist and the dictators they most feared would prevail. They guarded the right to privacy of person, writings, place and possessions so strongly and stated often that these and all other rights and liberties granted under the Constitution should be preserved and that in all cases these rights and liberties should trump the desire for security. (See freedomkeys.com/vigil.htm for proof about this statement and other statements in this post as there are many comments by the Founding Fathers of the United States and other people about this.) The question I have for all of you is which do you value more, the potential for security or the Constitutionaly granted rights granted under the 4th Amendment? If you value security more, then what else will you be willing to lose for your security? If you value the rights granted to you under the Constitution of the United States, what have you done to preserve them or to use them? Have you ever read the Constitution of the United States enough to know what your rights are?
2 people like this
5 responses
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
5 Apr 08
Really they should uphold the 4th admenment we have the right also to be happy and free to do what we want with out all the regamarow . Now I beleive we do need secure boarders and secuity from terroists and if there are known terroists with in out boarders they need to go in and wipe them out not let them set and fester llike they are doing. No I havent read all of it for a very long long time!
2 people like this
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
6 Apr 08
really they just need more border patrol people and ones that arent currpts and taking graft to get people across the border and they need to hang the ones that hide them in trucks that end up dieing from lack of air and food and water. its just bad deal all around!
• United States
5 Apr 08
The secure border debate is one that now is pitting States rights and the rights of property owners and evironmental concerns against the Federal government's desire for fleeting security... It is interesting how President Bush now declared that he was going to put up that fence in violation of 30 environmental laws and local and state laws, that sets a bad precedent of trampling on the rights that should be reserved for the states and also of devaluing the environment which needs to be preserved for future generations.
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
4 Apr 08
The Administration is totaly wrong on this issuse. Yes Lefty out there in MyLot land I do disagree with the my President from time to time. The Constitution is the most and should alway be important law in the land. I do not care what the day or time is, the Constitution must be respected at all times. This Country was found and created through that document. Those word did not just matter make then, but matter today. I would rather give up my security, than my rights. The fonders of this great nation understood what an all powerful government could do to the citizen of that country. They did not just create a new nation, just so it could turn into the monster that they fought against. It is not just the 4th amendment, but I will hold my response to the topic that you have put forth, we have let the government take away our right for protection. I do not need the Federal government to protect me from every little thing. Those great men would be rolling in their grave right now if they just know what had come to the great experiment that they called this United States of America. I fear the most that my own political party would destory the thing that hold only thrid to my love of my God and the love of my husband.
2 people like this
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
4 Apr 08
The First Amendment protect the citizen from the government prohiting, or regulating freedom of speech, and freedom of the press. There are other freedoms in the First, but for this discussion I want to discuss those two first. The Federal government regulates speech and the press through the Federal Communications Commission. The FCC, as we call it, regulates over the air communications. I have away to regulate what is said on my TV, or Radio, I change the channle. The Federal government say that it is protecting us from surtain speach, but it is arbitrary. At one time you could not say the word as*, but now you can. The Second Amendment Right to keep and bear arms. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. I am not sure what people do not understand about the word infringed. Eighth Amendment Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment. In the name of protecting of protecting us from accused criminals, judges will raise bail so much, or not even give bail, that the accused cannot pay the bail. I am not sure about this, because I am not sure if the Constitution protect non-citizen or not, but water boarding I think is cruel and unusual punishment. Tenth Amendment Powers of states and people. All power not given to the Federal government is given back to the States and people. Abortion, Gay marriage, Universal Health care, Schools, and anything else that is not give to the federal government to regulate is a state matter. If New York want to have legalized Abortion, Gay marriage, Universal Health Care, and government run schools, but Texas does not that is how it should be. As to your question about what am I doing, to be honest not much, I do vote for candidate that I think will protect the Constitution, but sometime I let my partisanship get in the way. As to the impeachment, it must be that we where so angry that Clinton got off the hook for perjury, that we decided that no one was going to get our President.
2 people like this
@NeoComp (1316)
• United States
5 Apr 08
Yes I agree, I think the Constitution is the most important thing in our country. Also Liberty and Freedom is more important than the illusion of security. I think that Ron Paul is right when he says.. if we give up liberty for security in the end we lose both. We need more people like Ron Paul in our government , and less people who want world government and fascism.
• United States
5 Apr 08
I will state that Ron Paul was not the first person who said that... Ben Franklin said,"They that give up a essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor saftey." and the quote that Ron Paul used is often is commonly also attributed to Franklin. I agree that we need more people that are for preserving Constitutional rights and liberties. I am glad that Ron Paul did echo Ben's comments. It is unfortunate that he and also Dennis Kucinich did not get to fully participate in the debates and did not get the air time they deserved. It is sad that the companies did not allow them to fully communicate their ideas to the American public.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
5 Apr 08
I haven't read the Constitution for years and I think it's time I do it again to brush up. I remember enough to know our rights are being violated big time and it infuriates me that so many people seem to have no problem with it whatsoever. I've been told many times that if I have a problem with my conversations being listened in on I must be doing something wrong; I'm not but when I'm having a private conversation I want it to remain private unless and until I'm suspected of a crime. WE are not the enemy here. If anyone wonders why we're hated around the world you don't have to look very far to figure it out. As for what I'm doing to protect my rights, I'm going to exercise my right to vote and hope millions more continue to do the same and maybe all this nonsense will stop. If not, we're in big trouble I'm afraid. Annie
• United States
5 Apr 08
I am glad that you are going to vote... I also suggest that people do a little research and participate in the political process a bit more than just voting. There are websites that will allow you to express your interests in various issues and then you will get petitions that are in line with your interest areas. I use Care2.com and the petitionsite.com for that. It feels good to be able to comment directly to the elected officials about upcoming bills, etc. prior to decisions being made on them. There are various groups who are out there to defend our Constitutional rights against attack and it is a good idea to assist in their efforts. In these days, voting is good but is not enough.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
5 Apr 08
I forgot to mention that I do use Care2.com and petitionsite.com all the time. I'm not sure how much good it does but it takes only a few seconds so it's certainly worth doing. Annie
@Emma_Wang (210)
• China
5 Apr 08
in my opinion,there is neither right or wrong in both side,and i am not an amreican,so i can not know this issue clearly.
• United States
5 Apr 08
Wondering how your government is run and if there is a Constitution that people argue over... If they don't argue about that, what do they argue about? It seems like in every nation there is some debate about how things should be run, especially if there no one official around to to hear or read it.