I'm having trouble reconciling Christian ideology and the acts of Christians

@mmiller26 (1930)
Canada
May 18, 2008 8:17am CST
Lately I've been reading a lot of posts about religion and was involved in a particularly nasty discussion concerning gay marriage. And it's stirred up a lot of feelings inside me that I don't know what to do with. I was raised in a Christian household. We went to church every Sunday when we were kids. I wasn't baptized, but I was dedicated to the church in a small ceremony. I went to Sunday school. But over the years as I grew older, things started to make less and less sense to me. I would go to Church on Sunday and everyone would be all pleasant while in the church, but on Monday those same people would stab you in the back. And I started reading about what religion has done to people over the last several centuries and it became difficult to reconcile ideology with action. In my childhood, I was taught that Jesus was love, God was love. "Jesus loves me because the bible tells me so." But historically, and currently, Christianity isn't about love. The Crusades, the Inquisition, the executions for heresy, or in Galileo's instance, house arrest for the rest of his life because he believed the earth revolved around the sun and not the other way around, the corruption, the infighting between its own denominations (Protestants vs Catholics), forced conversions of pagans and Indians, the church looking the other way while its priests raped boys, the overreaching of the church into politics in order to benefit the church and give itself more power, kings believing they ruled by divine right, the witch trials and burnings that killed nearly 100,000 women in Protestant countries across Europe, missionaries giving bibles and refusing to give aid unless those in need of aid convert, a president who believes God personally speaks with him and directs him as to how to lead the country and therefore has no use for facts or rationality...I could go on. So many have died or been imprisoned in the name of God. So many have been abused. And even now there are those who would spread a message of hate rather than love. As I wrote above, I was involved in a discussion about gay marriage and those who were quoting scripture at me were saying that gays are abominations who must change or burn in hell. And it always galls me that there are Christians who do plenty of their own sinning and ignore commandments and lie and cheat on their spouses, covet what their neighbors have, are guilty of pride, greed, and sloth, think about killing gays and abortionists and non-believers, who treat their own parents badly, and indeed treat their fellow man badly, but have the nerve to stand up and point fingers of accusation at others. I've always believed that the bible was a personal guidebook of sorts--not necessarily a factual book of history (let's face it-what are the chances of talking snakes, women being created from ribs, talking bushes, virgins getting knocked up by celestial beings and people walking on water that isn't frozen and the entire world being drowned except for two of every animal on a boat that must have been forty times the size of the Titanic) but more of a compilation of mythologies or allegories that demonstrate through story how we should live our lives. There are a number of lessons to be learned that involve not being judgmental, practicing what you preach, being true to yourself and to love each other and work toward peace. But the bible has become a doctrine of hate and a tool with which we wield our hatred. By quoting certain passages of scripture, we can interpret the bible however we like and feel justified in our hatred because "the bible says so." I've seen people quote passages of the bible to demonstrate why one action is evil, while completely ignoring other passages that they feel either don't suit them or shouldn't apply. I feel that by cherry-picking which passages are relevant and which ones aren't, one is basically nullifying any validity the bible might have. And the message being spread by Christians is largely one of intolerance. You have evangelists like Jerry Falwell (now deceased) and Pat Robertson spewing hatred and condemnation and bigotry. Some Christians on MyLot are spreading these messages as well. And I don't understand it. I don't know where the love is, or what happened to make it this way. Jesus' message was of peace. His message was of working toward a common goal for the betterment of us all. His message was one of "judge not, lest ye be judged" and not to cast stones. I believe God iHe forgives our flaws. He forgives our f*ck ups. He realizes we are not perfect and that we do the best we can. I don't believe in hell. I believe God creates each and every one of us unique, and that makes each and every one of us special. I don't believe that God is condemning or wrathful. He isn't some boogeyman who creates the trap of giving free will and then condemning us when we don't do what he says. I picture him as a metaphorical cradle, holding each of us in his arms, not a vengeful god pointing a cold finger of accusation. I think that he is appalled at his message being contorted and twisted into what it's not meant to be. And I'm actually in tears as I write this, because to see the way the world is, and to see all of this hatred just hurts my heart. Maybe it's just PMS or something. I'm not usually emotional about religion or God or any of this. Today I am. Today I'm looking at the world around me and just full of anguish. I can't wrap my head around this. And of course I know that not all Christians are this way. But I've met enough of them, online and in person, and seen the hate and the fear and the self-righteousness to know that there is an overwhelming majority. So help me understand this. If there's anyone reading this who is having trouble understanding it too, I ask that you read and reply to anyone who tries to help me figure this out. Maybe together we can come to some sort of ...if not resolution, then at least better understanding of where we're all coming from.
4 people like this
6 responses
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
18 May 08
The problem is that many Christians have taken Christ out of the religion. They worship the Bible, but only their version and they reference the Old Testement. When that doesn't work, they go to the teachings of Paul and skip Jesus all together. Jesus walked among the people and turned no one away. He fought the church Hierarchy and raged against injustice. Another problem is that some of these "Christians" are...Hmmmm, I can't think of how to put this without sounding mean. I guess I'll just say that they don't know how to think for themselves. It's a fear and religion and the bible are crutches. They are hateful, absolutely. But they don't know it. Because the true haters in the sect, the Fallwells, the robertsons, etc. are men they trust. They trust these men because they need a human to follow and because they can't decipher the words of the book themselves. Jerry and Pat say it's so, so it must be so. And because they can't think for themselves they reject everything that contradicts what "Jerry and Pat" are telling them. "Jerry and Pat" are fear mongers. They use the threat of fire and brimstone to scare people to Christianity. And the mylotters and people in life who repeat this hate, are very, very afraid of asking questions. My father is a Christian minister. Prior to converting to Christianity, he was studying to be a rabbi. He is fluent in Hebrew, Aramic, Greek and Latin. I grew up in a communal house and for the first 10 years of my life, we had no electricity. In the evenings our only sourse of entertainment was a short wave radio and books. One of my favorite books was the Bible. When my brothers and I didn't understand a passage, we would take it to my father. He would pull out another version and read the passage in Hebrew or Greek or Aramic. Then he would give us the literal translation. He would give us the long held interpretation. He would give us alternate interpretations. We would then re-read, in context and discuss what we thought it meant. Often we didn't agree. Sometimes, I still don't agree with my father. But he believes, as I do, that asking why or how is no sin. Proverbs 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good From this, I believe we have a spiritual obligation to ask questions and seek understanding and enlightenment. But I am the minority in my faith. Sad really. Sorry this was so longwinded. I probably created more questions than answers. Great discussion, though.
4 people like this
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
18 May 08
I really don't think that the US is regressing. I think that the younger generation is decidedly more enlightened and understanding and the ultra conservatives are very afraid of this. That's why they are seeking to turn the nation into a theocracy, before they lose control completely.
2 people like this
@mmiller26 (1930)
• Canada
19 May 08
I kind of disagree. I feel the nation is regressing and becoming more...puritan, for lack of a better word. I'm not saying that we should all be down and dirty, but we've come this far as a civilization but are still completely freaked out at the sight of a nipple. We've got parents thinking it's perfectly acceptable to not teach our kids about the facts of life, and schools lose funding if they teach anything but abstinence. Our kids are going to be completely ignorant of life and personal responsibility because we're ignoring our responsibilities as parents. I understand wanting to protect and preserve innocence. But I think we're going too far. And in that last conversation about gay kissing on TV, a woman said that she only watched TV Land because it was more "wholesome". Who's kidding who? Every generation believes that their generation had it better, and the next generation is declining into hell. It's been that way since the beginning. TV seemed more wholesome in the days of Donna Reed, when women were perfectly coiffed and in heels and a dress just to do household chores and basically had no right to say anything other than "yes, dear." The age when a married couple slept fully dressed in separate beds. And who failed to notice that Uncle Arthur on Bewitched was gay as the day is long? I'm getting off-topic here, but I do wonder why so many people are walking around with their @sses puckered. lol
@cyntrow (8523)
• United States
20 May 08
Way off topic: The attress who played Endora was a lesbian and one of the Darin's was also gay. I think it was the second D!ck. LOL
1 person likes this
@anaknitatay (1335)
• Philippines
18 May 08
there is little difference in being a religious zealot and a religious fanatic. There is a reason why Pride was placed as one of the greatest of the deadly sins. You see, once you are placed on a high position in religion (either by you or by someone else) you begin to think that you alone know it all or you become intolerant of other ideas simply becuase you think you or your ideas alone are right. And this I think is the reason many atrocities are committed in the name of religion. Not religion itself as being evil but people use religion as a tool in doing evil.
4 people like this
• United States
20 May 08
God speaks to all of us. We just have to be willing to listen.
2 people like this
@mmiller26 (1930)
• Canada
19 May 08
Exactly. You can't argue, debate or reason with an individual who thinks that God speaks personally to them (as in the case of the US President), or someone who wields the bible as a weapon to further their own agenda or justify their own despicable behaviors.
3 people like this
• Philippines
23 May 08
exactly, take the bible for instance it was written by numerous authors in a span of thousands of years no one can really ask them what they meant by their writing. And if they really want to any Tom, John and Harry can interpret the bible and we would be no wiser. Heck, i bet you can even use passages in the bible to show people how to cook pasta!
1 person likes this
@34momma (13882)
• United States
18 May 08
the problem you are having is trying to understand. that is not your job or responsibility. i know that doesn't sound right but it's true. all you can do is forgive those who you feel are doing things that are "wrong" and then let it go. as Jesus said on the cross "forgive them, they know not what they do" that is all you can do. when you are trying to understand what is not understandable, you are going to only come make yourself crazy. you don't have to know and understand everything. what you do need to do is forgive, and then let it go. when you carry these kinds of things around, they then become apart of how you live your life. now i know you don't want to live your life because of the madness of people before you, forgive and let go, that is the key and the only answer. i hope this helps
@34momma (13882)
• United States
19 May 08
you have to be aware that most people are not even awake or aware of who they really are. and that is we are all children of God. when you know that, then you start see the world a different way. when you know that people are not awake or aware to who they truely are, then you need not even point out to them when they are "wrong or right" you just need to forgive, not judge and move on. that is the true definition of being God like.
@mmiller26 (1930)
• Canada
19 May 08
Forgiveness is easy. I can do forgiveness on a personal level. I can forgive my step-grandfather for being a racist pig. But I won't stop arguing with him when he's talking about "the blacks" and "the mexicans". Or even "the Minnesotans" (he's really f*cked up). I can forgive my aunt for looking at me with disapproval when I told her that Brokeback Mountain made me sob because it was so incredibly sad and I just wanted the guys to be together. I can forgive the kids back in school who treated me badly for years because I was different than they were. But I see people calling gays "abominations", "promiscuous" and "disgusting". I see people who don't feel other people are human. And historically, when one group of people stops believing that another group of people are human beings, the greatest atrocities have occurred. And if one doesn't stand up and say "this is wrong", that's just as unforgivable.
1 person likes this
@wooitsmolly (3613)
• United States
20 May 08
I personally don't have anything to add to this discussion, as I am not a Christian myself. All I can say is I think what you said was very well-put and I really like this discussion topic. I think this world is in dire need of people who are willing to question EVERYTHING.
1 person likes this
@mmiller26 (1930)
• Canada
21 May 08
Thanks woo. Or is it Molly? lol. I appreciate your response, even if you didn't have anything to add. And it's nice once in a while to be able to discuss something intellectually without feeling like we're getting into an argument. I do question a lot of things. My history/government/human behavior teacher back in high school encouraged us to question authority, question our government, question each other. He'd pick a topic like abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, etc and let us debate our hearts out. And he'd stand back with this satisfied smile on his face. He was my favorite teacher and had a huge impact on me. But he encouraged us to be respectful of each other too.
1 person likes this
• United States
21 May 08
I have a professor who has said, "stand strong in your beliefs, but not so strong that you are unwilling to test them and change" and that has stuck with me pretty well.
1 person likes this
@angemac23 (2003)
• Canada
19 May 08
I apologize, but I am unable to help you sort this out. I have all of these thoughts as well, but I have decided to stop thinking about it and throw religion out of my life for good! The things that the church has done are unforgivable and I am done with religion for good. I hope you find some resolution to your concerns, but for me, I just dont give a damn anymore. Every time I ask a question like this, the only answers I get back are ones that either beat around the bush or contradict each other. I ever tried asking a minister one time some questions and he could not even give me a straight answer! I have a perfect example of a bunch of Christians stabbing someone in the back....about 15 years ago, my sisters and I (we were all quite young) were walking not far from our house when a speeding, out of control car came straight us, narrowly (and I mean narrowly) missed us and crashed into the ditch only feet away from where were. The first people on the scene were not cops or ambulances...it was the people who lived around there. We thought they were coming to help or figured that they at least would have dialed 911...they didn't....they recognized the car and the man driving was a well-know drunk in the area. THey dragged him out of the car, and he was fine except that he could not walk, he was so drunk and the empty bottles were in the car as proof. They threw the bottles in the ditch and helped the man. My parents were soon on the scene and of course wanted to phone the police to report a drunk driver who nearly killed her 3 kids. The nieghbors would not let her....they said "you can't do that, that would be unchristian, we should just let him go".....he nearly killed 3 small children and they wanted to let him go/....of course my mom flipped and called the cops anyway....those bystanders never spoke to anyone in my family again....we were black listed in the neighborhood....and all of those bystanders, every single one of them was a churchgoer who considered themselves Christains....I think they should rot in Hell when they die for what they tried to do!!
1 person likes this
@mmiller26 (1930)
• Canada
19 May 08
I'm sorry that happened to you. And yes, your neighbors were wrong to want to let that man get away with it. Those same people would be the ones shaking their heads and saying it must have been "God's Will" if you three had been killed. I'm surprised the neighbors weren't charged for trying to cover up what the man did by throwing the bottles in the ditch.
• Philippines
19 May 08
There's a saying that the bible is a double edge sword. I don't really know what it implies nor do I really wanted to find out. Maybe it simply means it can cut both ways the one who is preached upon and the one who preaches it. For me I don't look at history. History are made by man, by their vanity and by their mistakes rather I look at civilization, the present civilization. Yes, there are lot of past atrocities, some were made in the name of religion. But would I believe that is God's will? No it's purely man's. If God wanted to destroy us, I believe he'll do it with a snap of his finger. I can not say where we are now but I can say it would be much much worse if there is no religion that would guide humanity.
1 person likes this