How Many Turkish Fighters Does it Take to Bring Down 1 Russian Bomber?
By veganbliss
@veganbliss (3895)
Adelaide, Australia
December 1, 2015 6:09am CST
Early on November 25, 2015, we heard it took two F16s fighters from Turkey to shoot down a Russian SU24 returning to its Latakia base after a successful bombing mission against ISIS, not far from the Turkish border. First we heard that Turkey charged that the Russian plane had violated Turkish airspace, had received a total of ten warnings & had then been shot down. Later in the Day, the report was modified to say it was actually Two Russian planes, not One & that they'd been in said airspace for 17 seconds. In the same day, Turkey called for & held an emergency NATO meeting.
Now, the Russian Government immediately denied the SU24s were ever in Turkish airspace. Later that day, Russia's Defense Ministry provided radar videos to prove that point, which also showed the F16s violated Syrian Government airspace.
Next we heard that as both Russian pilots parachuted from their plane, one was killed by ISIS machine gun fire before landing in ISIS territory. A Russian Rescue chopper then arrived to pick up both pilots. It was also attacked by the same terrorists with TOW missiles from the Obama Government. Badly damaged, with one of those servicemen killed by the blasts, it struggled to land in Syrian Government controlled territory.
Finally, we heard statements of support for Turkey from both NATO as well as President Obama.
Has anyone else heard anything else on the issue? Will this be a key event triggering World War 3? What do you make of all this?
6 people like this
8 responses
@TypicalRussian (747)
• Budennovsk, Russian Federation
1 Dec 15
This case wounded Putin's pride and avalanche of sanctions against Turkey followed after it
4 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
1 Dec 15
How did it wound your President's pride? He looked like the only one investigating the matter & telling the truth from what I've read on the matter. The military provisions & sanctions were only for protecting his servicemen. They seemed quite reasonable to me. He could have retaliated against Turkey much more severely & it still would have been justified.
4 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
1 Dec 15
@TypicalRussian
But why did Turkey not apologize? And why did Turkey cut off all communications with Russia & only communicate with NATO & the US? And why is Turkey knowingly buying tons of truckloads of oil from ISIS & funding them... conveniently opening & closing her borders to whoever she wants?
Perhaps this is what you are referring to... I recall an incident mentioned recently by Foreign Minister Lavrov where a Turkish plane had entered Syrian Government airspace & was shot down in 2012. Turkey's PM at the time (now President!) responded thus: "a short incursion into another country's airspace cannot justify an attack on it"! And now they want it both ways! They are condemned by their own measures & logic! Furthermore, a de-confliction agreement was signed by both Russia & the US + allies that this would never happen again. So the US Obama Administration is entirely responsible for this, also in light of that mentioned previously!
3 people like this
@TypicalRussian (747)
• Budennovsk, Russian Federation
1 Dec 15
@veganbliss Turkey warned Russia not to break their border before. But surely we deny the fact of it. Perhaps we will never know the truth as usual
4 people like this
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
1 Dec 15
The days of brinkmanship are back, it appears. To be honest, I'm surprised there haven't been more incidents like this one. This is a very foggy war and there will be other "accidents" and mistakes as more and more outside forces get thrown into the stew.
4 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
1 Dec 15
You're right. There have been more of these incidents previously & agreements were signed then to prevent them ever happening again. Agreements that Turkey, NATO & the US have violated time & time again.
It's also interesting to note that the British Parliament Defense Committee, in July 2014, issued a report lowering the threshold for invoking NATO's Article 5. This has forced every NATO member into an alliance, that if one member country is attacked, every NATO country is automatically at war with the attacker. And this now applies to all the "warfare acts" NATO accused Russia of doing in the Ukraine - none of it proven nor justified.
4 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
3 Dec 15
@troyburns
Surely you can see what this means, now that the thresholds are lower, meaning the tolerance is also lower, and the slightest thing, proven or not, will trigger open warfare, which must be avoided. Why did they allow this through both houses? Does the PM there carry a majority in both houses now? Let's hope not for much longer! Much of the fog seems to be in the heavily biased media reporting, unfortunately for us.
2 people like this
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
3 Dec 15
@veganbliss - Does Article 5 not place added strains on countries going to war together? I'm waiting for the next friendly fire incident and hoping that it can be understood that in the fog of war, allies sometimes kill each other.
3 people like this
@arthurchappell (45002)
• Preston, England
3 Dec 15
ISIS are bound to laugh as the World allies who should unite to wipe them off the map turn on each other and do ISIS's job for them
2 people like this
@rocky1980 (530)
• Chandigarh, India
3 Dec 15
I hope this would not happen. the organisations like ISIS must be wiped out from the face of the earth at any rate. we all must join hands to fight against such terror groups.
3 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
3 Dec 15
It's madness, isn't it? Who ever heard of two + countries fighting a common enemy & one of those allies, along with all their other allies, has sanctions against the other ally?
4 people like this
@arthurchappell (45002)
• Preston, England
3 Dec 15
@veganbliss It is how the Socialists lost The Spanish Civil War - the Fascists sat back and watched competing factions tear each other apart - now it is happening on a global scale in the nuclear age which is very frightening
2 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
1 Dec 15
Well, it depends on the reports you believe, but I'm more interested in your take on the matter. Russian bombers must be very well-built if it took two F16s to down just one of them!
It's interesting to note that these jets were sold to Turkey by the US under the strict conditions that they weren't even to leave the ground without explicit US consent!
2 people like this
@MALUSE (69409)
• Germany
1 Dec 15
@veganbliss This is so not my field of experience that I can't have a 'take on the matter'.
2 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
1 Dec 15
Fair enough. Thanks for your interest. 
It is strange to see everyone attacking ISIS together & yet sanctions on Russia are still in place stronger than ever at a time when the entire western economic system is collapsing so fast.
It is strange to see everyone attacking ISIS together & yet sanctions on Russia are still in place stronger than ever at a time when the entire western economic system is collapsing so fast.2 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
2 Dec 15
I hope you're right, for the sake of humanity!
4 people like this
@nidhithapa (11)
• United States
1 Dec 15
The Russian jets were bombing the oil fields controlled by ISIS in northern Syria and northern Iraq which is the major source of income for ISIS. It smuggles oil and sells in Turkey at half the market price around 20$ per barrel and Turkish authorities do nothing about it. $800,000,000 of ISIS oil has been sold there. Russians are trying to cut its financial sources which is not liked by Turkey.
4 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
1 Dec 15
Yes. I saw the video of those great big long lines of fuel trucks - over 1000 tankers - coming & going. The US, UK & France all knew about this & did nothing to stop it in any of their ineffective attacks.
President Putin at the last summit, has revealed a dossier implicating 40 nations, most of them members of the G20, as funding sources for ISIS, naming names high up too. It's a big job ahead of them!
Anything said or done in secret will be shouted from the house-tops!
2 people like this
@rocky1980 (530)
• Chandigarh, India
3 Dec 15
No I don't think so. I am sure, we have learned a lot from our history.
1 person likes this
@rocky1980 (530)
• Chandigarh, India
3 Dec 15
@veganbliss yes i have heard it so many times " history repeats itself" but this only sounds good in movies not in real life. since the last world war, a lot have been changed. just be positive.
2 people like this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
3 Dec 15
There's one thing we can say about world history, is that it always repeats itself & we are consistently kept in ignorance about what really happened.
1 person likes this
@arthurchappell (45002)
• Preston, England
3 Dec 15
@rocky1980 sadly the only change is the kind of missiles we can now throw at each other with greater precision - this is not progress
1 person likes this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
17 Dec 15
Perhaps it has already started, with so many nations joining in under any ridiculous pretext they can find. Mr Putin is one really cool guy!
1 person likes this
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
17 Dec 15
@Auntylou Hang on... there's more good news yet to come as a result of Russian engagements.
@Auntylou (4264)
• Oxford, England
17 Dec 15
@veganbliss In our house we are tentatively , surprisingly better pleased with Russian response than we expected
1 person likes this
