Should we really honor Winnie Mandela ?
By topffer
@topffer (42156)
France
April 3, 2018 7:27am CST
I noticed in a discussion started yesterday about her death that many members seem to have an unbounded admiration for Winnie Mandela. A cult of personality was developed in South-Africa where she was called «the Mother of the Nation», like in the past the czar of Russia was called «the Father of the Nations». There are books, documentary films and even an opera about her.
It is true that she suffered a lot from the apartheid, maybe more than her husband : she was sent three times to jail, was harassed, brutalized, spied...
But with the cult of personality comes the revisionism and there is a historical revisionism done about her to rub out the dark side of her life. I give a link to a South-African article if you want to know this dark side : murder, torture, fraud, theft, corruption...
People believing that a political struggle justifies murders are not my heroes, but I can understand why she supported unequivocal slogans like «1 boer, 1 bullet». That was part of the game. What I find more unhealthy with Winnie Mandela is that she tortured and killed black people in her struggle for power.
Contrarily to her husband who has been the main artisan of the reconciliation between the white and black communities, she was against the terms of this reconciliation. In an interview given last September to the panafrican magazine «Jeune Afrique» she says that «the Rainbow Nation is a myth (...). The reconciliation was only a facade ; we are not free because we have not economical freedom.» And she develops some populist/extremist views «Why would we have to pay for something (farmlands) taken from us by force ? And with what money ? The capital stays in the hands of the white minority. Nothing has changed.» Then she criticizes the voting method because it gives some seats in the Parliament to the white minority. It is obvious that no reconciliation would have been possible in South-Africa on these basis.
When it comes to South-Africa and the end of the apartheid, I have a great admiration for people like Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu, both have received many international distinctions for their efforts towards peace in their country that they were deserving.
But I cannot honor any extremist, and Winnie Mandela was an extremist of the worst kind.
Winnie Madikizela-Mandela's attempts to claim Nelson Mandela's Qunu home is another embarrassing incident to add to her growing list of failures.
10 people like this
6 responses
@LadyDuck (458091)
• Switzerland
3 Apr 18
When you research you often discover that even those who are highly considered finally did things that would be condemned if made by common people. I remember a South African member of Bubblews who even refused to honor Nelson Mandela and he explained the reasons. I realized how very little we know about what really happens in a country. Sometimes we know very little even of our own country.
4 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Apr 18
If you read the article I link, you will see that Winnie Mandela was sentenced several times after the end of the apartheid. The only difference is that the sentences where lighter than they would have been for an ordinary citizen, for example a fine for a murder.
Actually I do not think that anything important can be kept secret long. Despite of confidentiality clauses, there are always leaks.
I would have been interested to read the opinion of this South-African about Mandela.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Apr 18
@LadyDuck I knew that he had been a "man of violence" in the past but the most important is that he changed his mind and became a "man of peace", while his wife Winnie never changed. She says in the 2017 interview that she will never tell a bad word against people like Mugabe and Gaddafi because they helped them. I cannot tell if it was also his opinion.
There is perhaps a tendency in South Africa to re-write the history for Nelson Mandela and to keep only the good part. Revisionism is something dangerous that should be denounced each time it happens.
2 people like this
@marguicha (215428)
• Chile
16 Apr 18
I confess that the older I get, the less I believe that people with power can have "clean hands". It happens everywhere. And many times, the difference between heroes and foes lies more on who won than on the means used to win.
1 person likes this
@marguicha (215428)
• Chile
16 Apr 18
@topffer We had Pinochet for a great part of my life. I used ot be a person full of ideals. Now I´m just a survivor
And society has changed so much that now the importance lays on the verb "to have" instead of the verb "to be".
And society has changed so much that now the importance lays on the verb "to have" instead of the verb "to be".@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 18
The "reason of State" is certainly responsible for a few murders by the army or secret services. Our previous president admitted to have ordered the murder of several jihadi in Iraq and Syria. As long as it is done in the interest of the state and of the citizens... Fortunately in France we have not had something looking like a political murder since the 1970's, but it may happen. So, yes, at a high level it is not easy "to keep clean hands".
1 person likes this
@Morleyhunt (21737)
• Canada
3 Apr 18
revisionist history .
ignore one side of the equation.
I have learned to try to do my own research and drawn my own conclusions.
3 people like this
@Morleyhunt (21737)
• Canada
3 Apr 18
@topffer I've learned not to to take things at face value. Dig a little and discover the truth...or at least a version of the truth.
2 people like this
@YrNemo (20261)
•
4 Apr 18
I read about the negative sides of that lady. She was a strong character person, who used that to hurt/torture others who disagreed with her. I read about the bad things Nelson Mandela did too. However, I learn NOT to quote those things to their supporters.
Commenting on posts here could be a very diplomatic business. One learns to gloss on the positive sides and try not to point out the negative sides of the article unless the negatives don't seem to affect the writer in any way - especially if you sort of like the writer. That is part of friendship @topffer 
, it is almost like buying items in bulk here, you buy the good and accept also the unsure qualities things that go with the bulk purchase.
, it is almost like buying items in bulk here, you buy the good and accept also the unsure qualities things that go with the bulk purchase.1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
4 Apr 18
The difference is that Nelson Mandela changed and worked later for the peace in his country while Winnie never changed. As a Catholic I believe in repentance (speaking of this, there is a procedure of beatification actually for a French murderer guillotined in the 1950's, Jacques Fesch, who converted and became a mystic in prison).
I also believe that a discussion site is made to discuss openly, and not to approve blindly. If a friend is wrong the best to do for him is to explain it to him and not to be hypocritical.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
4 Apr 18
@YrNemo I suppose that if he was not a good Catholic they would not consider of making a cop killer a saint.
It is the main reason why I cannot honor her. It is like honoring terrorism. I am surprised that many people do not realize it.
Your box is not fixed yet and you are still using a mobile ? I have a very small subscription for mobile internet, and when it is reached the 4G becomes a slow 128k connection just good enough for emails.
1 person likes this
@YrNemo (20261)
•
4 Apr 18
@topffer I have a 2Gb data per month from my cell phone plan. I used about 40% of that so far in the last 6 days, just mylotting, emails plus etc (no video clip or youtube whatsoever). For my poor family (they need the internet for their assignments and serious work), I was lucky to get a mobile data plan of about 20Gb for them, 50% of that has gone in the last 6 days. I plan to get another 20Gb fast in the next few days if this situation goes on. (Actually, I am using wifi from the latter one right now. Once the internet returns, that plan would be useless anyway, since it expires in 30 days. I chucked one like that away two weeks ago, 20Gb intact since there was no emergency at all the previous month.)
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
21 Apr 18
It was started to counterbalance what was said in another discussion started the day before, so it is guilty to show mainly the evil side. It is a hot topic. We have several South-Africans members here and not one of them responded to this discussion or the other one where she was presented like a hero of feminist fights in Africa.
