A few words about UK, the Prüm convention and the Schengen Information System

@topffer (42156)
France
May 31, 2018 8:20am CST
Two days ago a former French prime minister was telling to a tv that dismantling Europe would lead to war. When I read the comments about France in some UK newspapers, I am sure about that : they are full of clichés and hate about France and French, while you would hardly find a comment against Britain in a French newspaper. As an example I am giving a link to an article published today in the Daily Express about «France trying to block UK access to crucial EU crime and anti-terror database after Brexit». The UK wants to stay into the Prüm convention but France is blocking it. The Prüm convention from 2005 was written to combat terrorism and fight cross-border crimes. Crucial database ? UK (I am tempted to write «as usual») opted-out and asked to join it only in January 2016, it was accepted by the EU commission in May, one month before the Brexit. The convention permits to exchange data between countries about DNA, fingerprints and vehicle registration of any EU citizen. There are several problems about UK keeping access to these data : first, the convention is opened only to countries members of the EU, but as UK was member of the EU, maybe an exception can be made here. But, second, the use of the data is controlled by the European Court of Justice, and UK leaving the ECJ, the only response seems to be a big «NO», nobody would be able to control the use done by UK of these data after the Brexit. The same article tells that the British police carried 539 millions checks of the Schengen Information System last year. The SIS contains mainly information about stolen or lost guns, vehicles, money, illegal migrants, people searched for crimes, etc. OMG ! Britain is not member of the Schengen area and it is an island, it received 39.9 millions of visitors last year. The only use in UK for this database is for the border police to check the ID of visitors at arrival. 539 millions checks for 40 millions visitors, not all from the EU ? London, we have a problem. Since UK got access to the SIS in 2015, an unlawful use of it has been done : the content of the database has been copied and transmitted to private contractors outside of the EU, it has been shared with some US companies, it has been copied on laptops, etc. Already in 2015, after a first control by the EU, UK was warned to reduce the abuse it was doing of it, but it never complied. Another control done by the EU in 2017 demonstrated that the situation had worsened. Letting Britain to continue to have access to these database after the Brexit ? For the SIS, the damage is already done, but for the Prüm convention database ? The readers of the Daily Express can call me like they want, I support completely the concerns of my country about letting UK access to the personal data of any EU citizen after the Brexit without any control : photos, fingerprints, vehicles, etc. The possibilities of misuse are too important, and the profit dubious, UK has no personal ID and cannot offer a similar counterpart to the EU.
FRANCE is trying to block the UK’s access to a crucial criminal DNA database after Brexit which helped authorities identify the terrorists responsible for the Paris 2015 attack.
5 people like this
6 responses
@WorDazza (15833)
• Manchester, England
31 May 18
Anything in the Daily Express regarding the UK and EU relationship should be treated with scepticism. Even though I'm pro Brexit I don't think it's unfair to have to revert to the pre 2016 position post Brexit. It's in everybody's interest to co-operate on security no matter the EU membership status of any country. The UK wouldn't refuse to share security intelligence post Brexit so I don't see why any reasonable request by the UK for information from an EU country would be refused. Talk of war if the EU is dismantled is pretty irresponsible from such a high profile politician and smacks of desperation to ensure the EU gravy train continues for big business and politicians.
5 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
31 May 18
He is lucid, not irresponsible. At start the EU was created by people having known WWII and one of its goals was to prevent new wars to happen. It is obvious that there will be always a cooperation to fight terrorism and international crime, and I am also sure that no information will be refused to or by UK in the interest of everybody. The Express has catchy titles, but I am pained by the daily bashing done by the commenters.
4 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
31 May 18
@WorDazza Unnecessary ? Taken separately EU countries do not weight enough to be respected, all together they are. If a trade war starts with USA, you will perhaps change your mind. Raffarin has a good sense of events. He was the PM who decided to not do the 2d war in Iraq, who perceived the danger of Muslim terrorism before others, etc. He is no more an active politician, has no hidden agenda and says what he thinks. I place him a bit above the Daily Express.
4 people like this
@WorDazza (15833)
• Manchester, England
31 May 18
@topffer I think it is incredibly irresponsible to talk of wars due to the potential break up of an unnecessary political construct. When people resort to this sort of language it does nothing for entente cordiale. It's almost as if they are trying to either stir up bad feeling or scare people into maintaining the status quo and puts them in a similar category to the likes of the Daily Express and Daily Mail in my opinion.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (98989)
• India
31 May 18
That is dangerous alright. But if specific information about terrorists could be shared, it would prevent crimes in EU as well perhaps?
3 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
31 May 18
The SIS database shares information about criminals and searched people.The Prüm database gives all IDs of all EU citizens. If UK wants to search for a fingerprint or a face in this database after the Brexit, they will have to do what they were doing before 2016 : send their data to an EU country and ask it to check. At least we will be sure that the request is made only to fight crime.
3 people like this
• Pamplona, Spain
31 May 18
This is a very sorry stance for my country to take. Why they cannot behave and be fair to each other is mind boggling. I have read it all and I can see France have a right yes. If they want to leave Europe then they should not be allowed to have or gain any details about us Europeans at all.
2 people like this
• Pamplona, Spain
1 Jun 18
@topffer I agree with you too and if they plan to give up on Europe it should be for real not saying yes then no or maybe after. O que si o que no and that is how I feel about it also. B Yes Brexit means Brexit and no going back the love affair has ended.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
31 May 18
I have nothing about sharing a database like the SIS one, because it targets crimes and criminals, but I agree with you on the other point : I do not see why they would keep an access to our IDs after the Brexit. Brexit means Brexit
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
1 Jun 18
@lovinangelsinstead21 Not sure that for Britain it has ever been a love affair.
1 person likes this
@jstory07 (134706)
• Roseburg, Oregon
8 Jun 18
Every country has their up and downs.
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@topffer (42156)
• France
8 Jun 18
Very true.
@josie_ (9763)
• Philippines
31 May 18
Cooperation between law enforcers of different nations is necessary because of the international span of criminal activities but giving the UK unrestricted access to database after they have voted to leave the EU is asinine. Will British intelligence like Scotland Yard or MI6 reciprocate in kind with their database information? It should be on a case to case basis.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
31 May 18
I have nothing against leaving an access to UK to the SIS database, which is mainly intended to fight crime. For the Prüm database, they cannot reciprocate for the reason that they have no ID card in UK. The last offer they did in Brexit talks about data protection was authorizing UK to share private data with third countries, and has been rejected. Anyways, it is quite sure that any information shared with UK will be also shared with the CIA. It was against EU laws to pay contractors outside the EU for the SIS and to give it to private companies, and they did not do anything to comply, so I think that letting an access to the Prüm database to UK would be a bad decision. They can as well do what they were doing before 2016 : ask another country to check the database for them. They opted-out and lived 10 years without it, so telling that having not an access to this database puts Britain at risk is exaggerated.
3 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
31 May 18
@josie_ The economy of the EU is a team job, not an individual sport. France started big projects with Germany like with UK (Airbus, for example). Who has the leadership of the EU is only a subject for journalists : any country has a word to tell at the end and no country can decide alone. For the database access it is not a matter of rivalry but of protection of privacy and individuals. We have the strongest laws to protect privacy in the EU while UK is very weak on this point.
3 people like this
@josie_ (9763)
• Philippines
31 May 18
@topffer _I am tempted to respond that the accusation of France blocking Britain from accessing intelligence database is an extension of the rivalry between the two country since medieval times about who has the greater influence on Europe's political affairs. Now that the UK is exiting the EU, France and Germany would be left to compete for ascendancy in the leadership of the EU. Macron vs Merkel, who'll get the upper hand?
3 people like this
@YrNemo (20261)
31 May 18
From what I read on the news lately, I have a suspicion that the leak in important data from the EU might not be done by the UK, but others. However, I understand what you mean re: UK with its BREXIT but still likes to keep all past privileges.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
31 May 18
Yes, you cannot have the cake and eat it. You are thinking at what leak ? For the SIS database, it is an unlawful use of it by UK that resulted to leaks.
2 people like this