Today is the 500th anniversary of the death of Leonardo da Vinci

@topffer (42156)
France
May 2, 2019 6:29am CST
After a few quarrels, France and Italy, or at least their presidents, are making up by a visit to the tomb of Leonardo in Amboise, followed by a lunch in his last home, the castle of Clos-Lucé. Speaking of the tomb, it is only a «presumed» tomb. It is a bit embarrassing, but let’s tell the truth. A few decades after the death of Leonardo, the collegiate church of Saint-Florentin where he was buried was badly damaged by the Protestants during the wars between Catholics and Protestants, and the tomb may have been desecrated. In 1811, the owner of the royal castle of Amboise, the Count (since a couple of years) Ducos, decided to pull down the collegiate church. He was born in Gascogne, a poor area where a penny is a penny, and sold not only the stones but also the lead of the tombs remaining in the church... The children of Amboise played with the bones and the skulls until a gardener collected them in an ossuary. Nobody was knowing where Leonardo was buried long before Ducos, which was a bit shameful. Then, in the 1860’s, came Arsène Houssaye. He was not an archeologist but a minor writer of the Romantic school, a friend of Théophile Gautier and Gérard de Nerval. During about ten years he had been the Administrator of tne Théâtre-Français, where he did a good job. When Napoleon the third decided to remove him from the National... hmm Imperial theater, he named him Inspector of Fine Arts... in charge of the museums of Province. I cannot tell if it was a real job or a sinecure (when Gautier was named Librarian of princess Mathilde, a cousin of the emperor, the first thing he asked was «Does the princess has a library ?»), but he had some free time in 1863 to do excavations in Amboise to search the tomb of Leonardo da Vinci. He found first the ossuary of the gardener, and kept a skull that was looking good enough to be the skull of Leonardo. Later he found a heart in a lead box that could have been the heart of the great man. Finally he found the skeleton of a tall man with some hair and piece of brown cloth and decided that this one was da Vinci. What he wrote shows his hesitation. He was honest and this skeleton was moved in the castle and exhibited like the «presumed» tomb of Leonardo. You will tell me that it would be easy to do a DNA test today to know if it is really Leonardo or not. Yes, but would people continue to pay to visit the tomb of an unknown man like they pay to visit the tomb of the «presumed» Leonardo ? The second part of the visit, the castle of Clos-Lucé, has nothing left from the time of Leonardo, although you will visit the bedroom, the workshop, etc of Leonardo. Until 2017 the castle had a few rooms from the 18th C protected as historical monuments, but it was difficult to make people believe that a 18th C room was there in the 16th C. French, those visiting castles, are too cultured to do such confusions. The owner destroyed the 18th C rooms to «restore» 16th C rooms, hoping to receive more naive visitors (about 300000/year, it is a lot of money) in his Dis... Vinciland. He is actually sued by the Ministry of Culture, and I see like a very bad sign the fact that our president is lunching with this cynical vandal, two weeks after having decided to vote a law to get rid of historical monuments regulations to restore Notre-Dame... The illustration is a painting in the Petit-Palais in Paris (a must-see museum, with a free entrance) by Ingres showing Leonardo dying in the arms of king Francis the first. Well, it is a legend, Francis I was hunting in Saint-Germain en Laye, near Paris, when Leonardo died in Amboise on May 2d 1519. But the painting is nice...
19 people like this
16 responses
@amadeo (111948)
• United States
2 May 19
@LadyDuck is right.Italy does not do enough to remember him.Not sure.
5 people like this
@LadyDuck (459805)
• Switzerland
2 May 19
@amadeo They are doing nothing at all, it is a shame. There are exhibitions, but there are every time exhibitions, nothing special.
4 people like this
@LadyDuck (459805)
• Switzerland
2 May 19
@topffer Milan more than Rome, he did not worked a lot in Rome, but he did a lot in Milan. They had a celebration here in Switzerland, he designed the fortification of a Castle near Locarno.
5 people like this
@LadyDuck (459805)
• Switzerland
2 May 19
Surely the greatest Italian genius and Italy is doing almost nothing to remember him. At least Mattarella has finally decided to visit his tomb with your President. I now remember I promised a photo of the 3 reproductions of his war machines we bought at the Science Museum in Milan. I am going to take the photos and to post them here.
4 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
Certainly a genius, but Franco-Italian! Like I wrote, it is not sure that the tomb in the castle is his tomb, but he was buried not far.
4 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
@LadyDuck He was given a castle, a good pension and the right to do a will : at the time the items owned by a stranger dying in France were seized by the king, giving him the right to do a will was treating him like a French citizen, so I can call him a Franco-Italian.
4 people like this
@LadyDuck (459805)
• Switzerland
2 May 19
@topffer Franco-Italian like me I have lived more years in the south of France than in Italy. He is laughing somewhere at the stupidly of humans, he did not seem to appreciate humans so much.
5 people like this
@BarBaraPrz (45624)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
2 May 19
King Francis the first? Looks like Henry the eighth...
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
Henri VIII was a contemporary of Francis I. There were 2 paintings of Henri VIII from the Queen's collections last year at the Clouet exhibition in the Louvre.
2 people like this
@Fleura (29245)
• United Kingdom
2 May 19
I guess that was the fashion of the time!
2 people like this
@Fleura (29245)
• United Kingdom
2 May 19
@topffer (I'm sure you know this) @BarBaraPrz The two kings famously met at the Field of the Cloth of Gold in 1520
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1 person likes this
@jstory07 (134843)
• Roseburg, Oregon
12 May 19
Leonardo De Vinci was a great painter and should be remembered.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
13 May 19
He is, there are a lot of exhibitions about him this year in France and Italy.
@MALUSE (69409)
• Germany
2 May 19
Some years ago I went to a lecture in the department of history of arts at the nearby university which was dedicated to Leonardo. The man was so versatile that the professor had no problem talking about him and his art and inventions once a week for three months.
3 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
The landlord of Clos-Lucé had also no problem to fill his property with models of inventions by Vinci.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69409)
• Germany
2 May 19
@topffer Do you know what the surname 'Vinci' means? No googling!
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
@MALUSE It is his place of birth, near Florence. They inaugurate there today a Leonardo exhibition with an "authentic" piece of hair of the Master coming from a private collection in the USA. I read that it comes with an inscription in French, I hope it is not the man excavated by Houssaye.
1 person likes this
@Mulidi (1979)
• Cruz Bay, Virgin Islands (U.S.)
2 May 19
No comment Thanks for sharing information
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
Your welcome.
2 people like this
@Mulidi (1979)
• Cruz Bay, Virgin Islands (U.S.)
2 May 19
@topffer pleasure
2 people like this
• Pamplona, Spain
3 May 19
Have read all this tops and for me he was pure genius in the best sense of the word. Its a very nice painting indeed too. Whether or not that is really him in that tomb or whatever might be hard to know I suppose. I was thinking of another famous woman you have over there in Limoges and was or would that really be her you know speaking of Valeria of Limoges came across that just by chance and I know its not really to do with what you are writing about. It all makes for being interested and learning about who they were and what they did.
1 person likes this
• Pamplona, Spain
3 May 19
@topffer I was looking for something else tops nothing to do herself and I went to her wikipedia and saw her tomb and just wondered if she would really be there. I would hope she is there and that she really existed but not to end that way in the times of the Romans I think.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 May 19
@lovinangelsinstead21 There is certainly somebody in the tomb. It is more difficult to tell who.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 May 19
The Valérie who is in the crypt of Saint-Martial in Limoges ? Those saints walking with their head under an arm are a French specialty, we have 70% of them. I tend to think that they were legendary saints, while Leonardo da Vinci was real. How did you heard about her ?
1 person likes this
@BelleStarr (61047)
• United States
24 May 19
Wow, all in all, this is a very sad ending for such an amazing talent. I am a fan of Albrecht Durer and he is safely ensconced in Nuremberg. I may have another ancestor look up for you if you are still willing or able to do it.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
24 May 19
Sad ending ? If it is not him, his bones are not far anyway, and I do not think he cares I can look for the next two weeks, after I will have no time to do that during Summer. Message me who you are looking for. I saw an Albrecht Dürer exhibition in Lisbon last week.
1 person likes this
• Philippines
8 May 19
Leonardo da Vinci is a once of a lifetime genius. It is nice to remember him and honour his masterpieces.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
8 May 19
Right, great mind, great painter
@garymarsh6 (23393)
• United Kingdom
2 May 19
I met a scholar in Florence who lived and breathed Da Vinci. It was a pleasure to hear him speak about this great man!
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
It was certainly interesting to learn new things from a scholar in the city where Leonardo started to work
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@Fleura (29245)
• United Kingdom
2 May 19
Of course to do a DNA test you need some relative to compare the DNA to. Does Leonardo have any living relatives?
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
@Fleura Yes, sorry, in French parents means also relatives ; it is a false friend, and not the first time that I do this mistake
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
I read that he has about 35 identified parents in Italy, descending from his brothers.
2 people like this
@Fleura (29245)
• United Kingdom
2 May 19
@topffer They can't be his parents! Relatives I guess you mean?
2 people like this
@cacay1 (83220)
• Cagayan De Oro, Philippines
10 May 19
It's unfair honoring someone not sure if real one. Leonardo daVinci was renown artist during the Renaissance period together with him Michelangelo, Raphael and more. It's so sad they took for granted this artist famous in the world.What a shame letting people tour to pay visit to the unknown skeleton.The government should use the latest technology to determine where those remains are his.Very nice post.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
10 May 19
Italians have found in an US collection a flock of hair collected by Houssaye and have scheduled a DNA test of it that they will compare to the DNA of the living relatives (families of his brothers) of Leonardo da Vinci. If it is not him, he is not far, among the bones left at Saint-Florentin by Arsène Houssaye. The problem is that Houssaye completely slaughtered the site. Doing another excavation to collect these bones is not that interesting, and a DNA test of any adult male bone to find Leonardo would cost a fortune...
1 person likes this
@cacay1 (83220)
• Cagayan De Oro, Philippines
24 May 19
@topffer it's indeed a fortune.
1 person likes this
@LindaOHio (157813)
• United States
3 May 19
I have a whole book about his inventions, etc.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 May 19
He was a genius and thought at so many things, from planes to submarines !
1 person likes this
@LindaOHio (157813)
• United States
3 May 19
@topffer Yes, it's amazing.
1 person likes this
@YrNemo (20261)
18 May 19
An informative post! It is funny the way you described the process of choosing the right skull, skeleton etc by someone, as THOSE which should belong to Leonardo Da Vinci. So that grave might have contained remains from multiple owners, and none was the supposed Leonardo. An amusing thought (and might be the real reality too).
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
19 May 19
Houssaye was not an archeologist, and I am not sure at all that the grave chosen by him was the grave of da Vinci. The Italians having found some hair from this grave kept by Houssaye, the ADN will tell soon if it was the good one.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
21 May 19
@YrNemo Difficult to tell, I tend to believe that this man was from an older time than Leonardo, because of the context described by Houssaye, but it may be Leonardo da Vinci as well.
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@YrNemo (20261)
21 May 19
@topffer (I could imagine the verdict! Poor Leonardo Da Vinci!)
1 person likes this
@Tampa_girl7 (49217)
• United States
30 Sep 19
He was so talented . what a shame they do not honor him properly.
@Fleura (29245)
• United Kingdom
2 May 19
That is fascinating, how do you know if all that is true?
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 May 19
Lol, I have done my homework long ago about the Loire castles. At a moment I was expecting to get a job in the Loire valley, but I was young and I have been scammed. I will not give the details, but... to a competitive examination to be valid in the French administration you need two candidates, and I realized that I had been encouraged to compete because they were needing a second candidate the day of the exam.
1 person likes this