What is the Result of Women's Rights?

United States
December 28, 2006 10:12am CST
I'm a Christian with a traditional view between men and women, but I'm also a very leadership-oriented female, meaning I tend to take charge in situations. I firmly believe that I should have the same rights as men - the right to vote, the right to be paid the same amount as a man if in the same job, same performance, and same education, and that I should have the right to open up my own business, go to school, etc, etc. However, my main problem with "feminism" and "women's rights" is that, in my mind, it's women trying to fight to say that we can BE men, when we are clearly not made to be men. We're made to be women. The argument, instead, needs to be that the differences and strengths in women are just as important and equal to the strengths and differences in men. There's no way around it - without men, there can't be women born, and without women, there can't be men born. What do you think?
4 people like this
32 responses
@kellahinx (372)
• United States
28 Dec 06
if you really look hard into feminism it has changed over the years. i used to not like the word feminism because of the connotations that it brings up. this may sound strange, but to get a really good understanding of the way feminism has changed, you should pay close attantion to the movie 10 things i hate about you. in this movie the main character Kat embodies a typical old generation feminist where she gets really angry about her not being seen exactly the same as men and reads things like the bell jar. she even listens to music that symbolizes some of the feminist movements where women would live in communes and create these all women music groups and kind of spurned men, saying they didn't need them. however, she moves towards the next generation of feminism in the movie where she embraces what she likes about herself as a woman but does not give up her sense of empowerment. so i think i agree with the new generation of feminism more. why wouldn't i want a guy to open the door for me. it is sweet and considerate. but that doesn't mean that i can't make just as much money as he does.
2 people like this
• United States
28 Dec 06
THANK YOU!! I completely agree with this explanation. I think the biggest mistake a woman can make is to ignore the power of her femininity to try and be equal to a man BY being a man. I find similar issues among different nationalities. The point of coming to America is not to assimilate everyone into being "American" so to speak, because America is a mix of everything. People of different cultures should be respected and appreciated because of their differences - because it is these differences that will strengthen our nation. But that's another subject for another time :)...
@sarilynne (273)
• Canada
28 Dec 06
For me, "equality" in rights and privileges, salaries, etc, is what is important. Of course men and women are not "equal" using the definition meaning "the same" - there are fundamental differences between men and women... but they should be "equal" in status - in their status in society, the workplace, the home. It is important that women have the same rights as men and not be treated as second class citizens in society. If a woman is doing the same job as a man, has the same education and the same experience, then why shouldn't she make the same amount of money as him? There is absolutely no reason for it, and yet this problem still exists today. If you want more information on the topic of feminism, read the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism The article talks about the origins of feminism and different types of feminism and is quite interesting.
• United States
29 Dec 06
Thank you very much for the link - I do intend to check this out...I was a victim of being paid less in one job I worked at...and it made me angry because it was a Christian organization - I don't believe there is any place in the Bible that talks about women not being equal just because they are females - and if you look at the context of Corinthians when Paul is talking about women in the church, he was speaking to a specific church and what the women of that church were doing...but that's another topic all together... *grin*
@Melizzy (1381)
• United States
29 Dec 06
You do realize that true feminism is based in Biblical tradition, right? Just as true liberalism is very Biblical. Feminism does not mean women want to be men. Quite the opposite actually. It is saying we are equal to men in many ways. Technically, we need men to pro-create. We need their sperm, but they do not have to be present for us to have that. They however need us to carry the child for them. Just pointing that out.
@boeyong (256)
• Malaysia
29 Dec 06
"Feminism" as you quote it is NOT based on Biblical tradition nor is it stated in the Bible. In fact "Feminism" isn't a word you can find in the Bible. The Apostle Paul encouraged women to, as he put it in Titus 2:4 "that they (the older - as in aged - women) may recall the young women to their senses to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sound in mind, chaste, workers at home, good, subjecting themselves to their own husbands, to that the word of God may not be spoken of abusively". Women don't have to prove they can do what the men can, to be treated nicely. If the men could get pregnant and bear children, do all the things a woman can, women would be redundant. God does not create for nothing. You talk about equality and such, because humans were endowed with speech and thought. Tell me, in the animal kingdom, the lion's favourite food is the zebra and the zebra can only run from the lion and can't even fight to protect itself. What will the zebra think if it could express itself? Remember, the Bible says that God is the potter and we are the clay in His hands. God made women to carry (as in bearing) children. Only the woman has the womb to do so. Men has to work to care for the family materially while women need only to take care of the home. It is Satan who makes women think they are deprived and have to prove a point. In God's view, there are no points to be proved other than what God has ordained.
• India
28 Dec 06
So, what is the argument? And who's arguing? Women all over the world have equal opportunities and a lot of them earn a lot more than their men counterparts, they have educational opportunities that are even better than what the males have. What does feminism mean? Women are wearing jeans and T shirts,trousers,sports shoes,etc. The fact is , women are created differently from men and have their own role to play in the cycle of evolution and nature. Neither one is better or superior to the other,clear your mind of these old fashioned ideas and do the right thing!
• United States
29 Dec 06
*laugh* I guess what I'm trying to discuss is the WHAT that women are arguing. There are STILL instances where women are being paid less...and that was one of the reasons I quit the job I did because I felt it was discrimination - I guess my point is that I'm frustrated because many times it ends up becoming a war of how women can perform as men, and not how women can perform as themselves. I'm not making that point clearly, I don't think *ack*...
• Romania
28 Dec 06
i thinck you are perfectly right.I'm verry agree with the fact that female's can do the thinck's that man's do and sometimes better.But some people don't give them a chance just becouse they are women's.So i thnck women's must fight for theyrs right.Without all the different's that apear betwen man and female i thinck the only difference is in the way that they loock.I'm a Christian to and i feel the same way that you do and i don't thinck that is wrong.
• United States
29 Dec 06
But that's the thing...I do see differences and think those differences are there for a reason. I believe we were all made as we are for a reason, but that women shouldn't be seen as inferior for those reasons...those differences should be celebrated. And I find it very hard to accept that people would value a man's contribution more than a woman's just because of their gender.
@clownfish (3278)
• United States
28 Dec 06
Hi! I guess I don't see it the same way. I never considered myself "feminist" until a few years ago when my whole political "everything" changed! LOL It's strange to be on the same side of the fence with people I used to disagree with! LOL The way I see it, female politicians have fought for women's rights based on what women need, not because women need to be men. Thanks to women like Pat Schroeder, we have maternity leave. We owe a lot of these foresighted women!
• United States
29 Dec 06
I would completely agree with you, though. Those are the kinds of things I want to see - women being celebrated for who they are and what they can achieve - and yet, women, on average, are still payed less than men in the work place when there isn't really any difference in education, ability, or performance. It angers me that a woman's contribution isn't seen as valuable in some places. I have been a victim of this before, and it's frustrating because it WAS in a christian organization. Ah well...you can't win 'em all, but you can sure as heck try :).
• United States
28 Dec 06
i agree with you 100%, but as a christan don't you feel the need to also serve your man...i'm not trying to be rude, it is just that my wife struggles with what you think...she wants all you say but also wants to serve me in a christan way and doesn't know how..i don't feel like i need any serving, i think she is just right as she is..i don't thing i'm helping you on your question though.
• United States
28 Dec 06
It would be interesting to explore the meaning of the word traditional when it comes to discussing gender roles.I think that most people would agree that men and women are mean't to be exactly the same.
• United States
28 Dec 06
Exactly - but my fear is that women, in trying to assert their equality, erred in that they tried to be like men instead of asserting their differences as women - to be a woman is an amazing thing - and yet, because of certain aspects, we're seen as inferior to men. Inferiority, I think, is becoming the culprit to my question instead of equality in some aspects. I think you're right - there are several things that should be defined in order to go deeper into this question.
@pemaldak (79)
• United States
28 Dec 06
I think we should stop striving for equality because there can never be equality. Men are different from women, that is nature. There are some aspects where one is superior to the other and vice versa. Inequality, i think is essential since it is what causes balance.
• United States
28 Dec 06
But I still want to make the difference known - I'm not talking about in individual aspects - I'm speaking of rights - the right to vote, the right to own land, the right to speak my opinions freely - I believe that if I'm doing the same job as someone, and everything is equal (experience, training, performance, time on job), I should be paid the same. But the sad case is still that women are seen as inferior. And that's where the problem comes in - it's not a matter of being able to do the same things as a man, it's being given the same chance - it's recognizing the fact that women are JUST AS IMPORTANT as men - not that we're the exact same.
@maryannemax (12172)
• Sweden
28 Dec 06
once i was in a bus on our way to the mall with my brother. we were lucky we have our seats. then, this lady who was standing up unable to get a seat to sit on says badly (obviously, making my brother hear it): why are men so rude these days?. i frowned. she could have asked in a nice way. instead. i said (trying to make it look like i am whispering but really trying to make her hear me, too): we always claim that men and women are equal. so why should men give out their seats to women and why shouldn't women give their seats to men? and she went silent. i mean, not in all aspects we can be equal. in everything, there is a limitation when it comes to equality. and this is where respect towards men and respect towards women start.
• United States
28 Dec 06
I agree - we can't be equal in all aspects - but in importance, we can be. The world should see the contribution of women just as important as the contribution of men.
@SplitZip (1490)
• Portugal
28 Dec 06
I think people should fight for their right to be a PERSON without any attached gender bias. And of course, they should also fight for their right to party.
• United States
28 Dec 06
*laugh* I would completely agree - to attach too much importance to someone because of something they had no control over has its downfalls in the first place - but to take away someone's right to party is a SERIOUS crime :).
1 person likes this
• China
29 Dec 06
Liberalism "is the right place for a woman
@joseph_v (212)
• India
29 Dec 06
I think you are absoultely correct, there is no women with men. first god created adam and then he created eve. But as the generation grow our values and traditions should also grow. My feeling is that women is equal to men, there is nothing difference between men and women
@deepakg4 (897)
• India
29 Dec 06
women have good rights now
• United States
29 Dec 06
I agree with you. If a woman shows a leadership potential why shouldn't she be able to lead? The world needs better leaders be they male or female, black or white, straight or gay, or boring or fiery. I have worked for many women and have found an equal proportion of good and bad. The rights should most certainly be the same. The rate of pay should be determined by the contribution a person makes to the company not their gender. I certainly agree that feminists want women to be men and physical differences aside there are several other inhernet qualities in both, that actually parrallel each other. A woman in general is usually more compassionate where as a man is usually has a more strict opinion, although I have seen those roles reversed.
@Lakota12 (42684)
• United States
29 Dec 06
I always had to fight tobe as equal to a man so I got wehre I could beat them at every thing am very competive! I also found my man that let me be myself and he never enterfeared with waht I was doing I also taught him if a woman trained for the same job to respect her for it and help if he could ,he was a lineman and later in life he did help the women that became lineman or/ linewomen
• Egypt
29 Dec 06
I think the right question should be what are the results of the bad women's rights, not all women's rights !
@djbtol (5498)
• United States
29 Dec 06
I think you know the right position. The truth is that as long as women invest all their time and energy in proving that they can be like men and demanding that they have the same rights as men, they are not able to learn and enjoy what it means to be feminine. Femininity is a wonderful thing, created by God. God did not make women less than man, but He did establish order and authority in the marriage and home. That is for the benefit of the entire family. Many girls growing up today have not the least clue as to what it means to be a woman - on the inside and the outside. Yet, any successful marriage must be strengthened with the differing abilities of man and woman.
@bimmer999 (1160)
• Philippines
29 Dec 06
hmm yeah you're right never thought of it that way..
@boeyong (256)
• Malaysia
29 Dec 06
You say you are a Christian so I guess you read the Bible. You will also know that God made humans to be both male and female. Males and females were made to complement NOT compete with, each other. If God wanted women to have what they want today, don't you think God would have made it clearly known and made them a man in a woman's body? No. God made MEN and WOMEN (upper caps, mine to stress a point) to play different roles according to their gender. Just because women were not to sidestep men in headship and leading roles in God's organisation and society, does not mean women's rights are ignored. Men were created to provide for the family and women were to provide services to the family and to be obedient to her husband in everything (read Ephe 5: 22,24). That is God's arrangement. Women were given an equal share in the Christian ministry, an equal share in upbringing of children, and God even provided a way out for women to share in congregation duties that are normally undertaken by men in their absence, provided they wear a head covering, to respect the headship arrangement. This headship arrangement was given to men by God himself - men did not initiate it. Whatever women say about abusive relationships and unfair treatment as such is best handled by God himself since He is the one who determines the relationship betweeen males and females. Just think about this for a while: If God himself would appear before all mankind in court and the Bible was opened as the sole instrument for determining justice, how do you think women today would fare as in against men? The Bible has accounts of women that played some very significant roles - like Rahab, who became an ancestress of the Lord Jesus Christ, Ruth and Naomi, Esther, who saved the Jews from extermination, Deborah, who helped Barak vanguish Sisera and Ja'el who killed Sisera. What about so many Christian women in the 1st century who also had the same share in the ministry and the tribulations surrounding it? Just like God's angels in His organisation, where they play different roles, the Seraphs announce God's glory and praises to Him, the Cherubs were the executioners of God's commands - the one that killed 185,000 Assyrians in one night in King Hezekiah's day was a Cherub. Satan too was a Cherub before he fell. What transpired from the time when Satan told Eve that she could be like God (and thus insinuating that she could supplant Adam's headship), should not be taken as an example to rebel against God's arrangement. Remember, all Adam did was say "the woman whom you gave me" is enough for God to punish Eve, because God's commands to Eve came through Adam. And Adam's sin was not so much as that he took the forbidden fruit, but as God put it, "because you listened to your wife's voice". Adam KNEW taking the forbidden fruit was wrong and yet he chose to side with Eve instead of chastising her and refusing to take part in the eating. Eve was wrong in not consulting Adam first before taking the forbidden fruit and Adam could have given in to untold sufferance of Eve's prodding, being taken off balance for a while, thinking Eve is the only woman around. If Adam had continued to obey God, God would have made another woman to take Eve's place and mankind's history would not be the same today.