childrens nursery rhymes
colchester canon
humpty dumpty
siege of colchester
st marys church
walled town
Humpty Dumpty Sat On A Wall....
By Darkwing
@Darkwing (21583)
August 11, 2007 11:21am CST
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall,
All the King's horses and all the King's men,
Couldn't put Humpty together again!
You all know this famous nursery rhyme, but it's one of those things we take for granted and never put any thought to. But, on my first visit with Gabs, having alighted the coach at Colchester Bus Station, I boarded a local bus, not knowing where quite to get off. So, I asked the driver to give me a shout when we got there. With that, a woman sat on the seat opposite me and started talking about my visit. She told me about the history of Colchester and the Castle, etc. when Humpty Dumpty came into the conversation.:) I've since checked the story out, and this is how it goes...
I learned from her that the rhyme was based on a large canon, which was used during the English Civil War, during the Siege of Colchester. The town, at this time was housed within a protecting wall, and had a castle and several churches. One of these churches, St. Mary's, stands immediately adjacent to the wall. It was here, next to St. Mary's Church that the cannon was placed on the wall.
A shot from a Parliamentary cannon succeeded in damaging the wall beneath Humpty Dumpty which caused the cannon to tumble to the ground. The Royalists, or Cavaliers, 'all the King's men' attempted to raise the canon on to another part of the wall. However, because Humpty Dumpty, was so heavy ' All the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put Humpty together again!'
Who would have thought that a nursery rhyme would grow from that? :) You live and learn, huh?
4 people like this
8 responses
@GardenGerty (169449)
• United States
12 Aug 07
I did not get notice of this discussion in my e-mails, I am going to have to make sure all my notifies are on. With the glitches that run around in this lot I would not be surprised if something had happened to my notifies. It did one other time. I like this, and it is one story I had not heard, and then VMKS had another new one on me--LOL
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
12 Aug 07
I did report a spammer on first response, which has since been removed, Gerty, so maybe that caused a glitch in notification.
You can find definitions of a few of the rhymes online. I checked the Colchester one for Humpty Dumpty, and also VMKS's and Cloud's.
Brightest Blessings.
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
12 Aug 07
Whilst it is a myth that 'Ring-a-ring of roses' is about the plague, most of our nursery rhymes are a way of teaching history to our youngsters. In the non-Catholic Christian religions there has long been a tradition of recounting historic events in song or poem, and even the non-Christian stories of the Druids were retold in verse.
This tradition is reflected across Europe by such groups as the Trobadours of Southern France, the Welsh 'Tales of Olwen' (though by many to be Merlin), and many great books. It is largely because these were stories oppressed by the authorities, and so had to be retold in a vague code, or stories with a hidden meaning, so the tellers would not face arrest. Humpty-Dumpty being about the Cavaliers, is a prime example of this, because the austere government of the Cromwellian Puritans won the war, so anything vaguely pro-Monarchy would have been severely punished.
I feel it is wonderful that these tales still exist today, even if many are unfamiliar with their true meaning, as it adds a flourish to our culture. These nursery rhymes are certainly more accessible to the average person than Shakespeare, and in reality, just as colourful.
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
12 Aug 07
Yes, I noticed most are based on history, Adren. Welcome Back, by the way... I've missssssssssed you!
Your knowledge of Merlin disturbs me somewhat, lol, if you know what I mean! ha ha ha. But, as ever, a very thought provoking response which I've missed somewhat of late. I hope you've had a good Summer, but am so pleased to see you back.
Whilst searching out some of the rhymes, I did notice that there's a club, run by a County Council locally, which teaches children the meanings of nursery rhymes, which is just as well, because otherwise, I can't see they'd grasp the meanings from the characters. lol.
Brightest Blessings my friend.
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
13 Aug 07
As it's monday, and everyone needs a little chortle on this dayof the week, I thought I'd share a little nursery rhyme of my own (knowing of your penchant for fine poetry);
'Mary had a little lamb, the doctors were astounded, and everywhere that Mary went, gynaecologists abounded'
All the best, petal.
@raychill (6525)
• United States
12 Aug 07
That's actually really amazing. I never knew that about the nursery rhyme. I don't think I would have ever even thought that the rhyme came from something real. I guess I just thought it was a random thing that someone sat down and wrote up and voila! there appeared a nursery rhyme about an egg. THough I did always wonder how an egg was a person, why it was on the wall and why they put it back together... not to mention once it was put back together, did humpty dumpty get back up on that wall!?
I wonder if there is such a history to all of the nursery rhymes.
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
•
12 Aug 07
Lol... they didn't ever get it back together because it was too heavy for them to work on it.
As for the egg version, I doubt they would be able to patch a shell, so I guess it was a good comparison.
It would be interesting to find out if there's some sort of historic attachment to other nursery rhymes wouldn't it. We have a Jack and Jill pair of Windmills on top of the South Downs in Sussex, England. lol.
Brightest Blessings.
@GardenGerty (169449)
• United States
12 Aug 07
Wikipedia cannot always be counted on, for instance it says that the Ring Around the Rosie connection with the plague is false, because the first time it appears in writing is after the plague. However, there is always an oral tradition, and all of my Literature classes have linked that rhyme with the type of mottling that went with the plague. I would go for more reliable sources.
1 person likes this
@raychill (6525)
• United States
12 Aug 07
Yeah. That is really interesting.
Well, The Wikipedia is always pretty interesting to read though one never really knows if everything you read is 100% true since it is user submitted. But they have a whole section on Jack and Jill.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_and_Jill_%28song%29
I guess proper research is the only way to know for real though!
1 person likes this
@cloudwatcher (6861)
• Australia
12 Aug 07
That is also the origin of saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. "Atissue, Atissue, we all fall down." A sneeze was a sure sign that another had contracted the plague, so "bless you" was the response.
@Adrenochrome (1653)
•
12 Aug 07
Cloudwatcher is correct about the 'Bless you' bit, although according to the great Stephen Fry (actor/writer/comedian/English Gentleman) the 'Ring-a-ring of roses' being about the plague is an urban myth. There are few people whose word I accept almost without question, but Mr fry is far. far more educated and intelligent than I could ever aspire to, so I wuill bow to his will about that.
1 person likes this
@gabs8513 (48686)
• United Kingdom
12 Aug 07
Well I have to be honest I did not know what to expect then lol I know I sat on the Wall when we where waiting for the Bus but I was trying to think if I had fallen of it lol but then I carried on Reading
But I have to be Honest I did not know this either lol
@tholitz (1127)
• Philippines
13 Aug 07
I always sing this rhyme to my children but haven't thought that it is actually a real story, and part of our history. It's really nice to read the stories that goes with this song, next time I would tell my children the story first and sing the rhyme altogether.
