Would you report a close family member or friend for child abuse?

I agree...I also don't like the fact that there is NO DUE PROCESS. Your kids are taken on the say so of a caseworker and then you are presumed guilty until you prove otherwise...and even then you may not get them back for months or years. And let's not even get into the amount of seriously abused kids who are left in abusive homes cause caseworkers missed something. The whole system needs re thinking.

I am glad they are safe now. Do you live in a city or rural area? Sometimes it matters. You said finally...how long did it take?

I do agree with reporting btw...just don't like how the system lets kids down so much once the report is made.

At the time I lived in a city in the South.

It took some time, I started reporting her when the first one was born, they took them away when he was nine years old. Nine years of abuse, nine years of being treated bad. We did what we could tried to take them, tried to get her to let them live with us etc.

I have had similar situations with my out of state grandkids. Their mothers are not family minded, to put it nicely. They care more for boyfriends and bars than their kids. My sons do not have money for lawyers and neither do I. They state they live in say they're in no immediate harm but I know that they are often left with drunks and drug users for babysitters.

I can only imagine what they're feeling.

I am sorry your nephews/nieces had to go through what they did. Our system is only as good as the people running it.

My first thought is the same as your own. BUT...that would leave the ones I love alone to heal and find their way in this cruel world....I would have a real hard time keeping that in mind, though.

I hope your adoptive home was happy and safe. btw...welcome to my friends list! Didn't get a chance to message you earlier.:)

In my search for healing....I learned that most abusers were abused themselves. I DON'T feel this is an excuse...but it helps to know there is possibly a reason for their being abusive...for me as a survivor.

I am an abuse survivor...I asked this question just for the very reasons you listed. YOu said any normal person....but many families don't tell. That is why I asked, to create awareness. So many children are killed or their lives ruined, their spirits broken. I felt this was a good way to get people thinking about the subject.

What you have posted here is very very sad. Perhaps your sister has deep spiritual and mental problems, the experts say that most abusers have been abused as well. Not an excuse...but a way to find some closure and understanding for you. God Bless you and Joy.

Thank you I know my niece is better off where she is. And many folks really need some insight into abuse.

It is not a subject that most people want to talk about. And is dominated with so much emotion that many will NOT discuss it. There needs to be more awareness and more truth published. A friend of mine, in response to his daughter's molestation, wrote a book on the fallacies believed and taught on the subject. Mainly, that to heal - you must forgive. The book is titled ENOUGH, the author is Bill Stephens and he can be reached at: http://stephens.myexpose.com/
and at http://www.christian.com/lambs

He is a tremendous artist as well. And you will see on his sight many pieces of artwork centering around Chrisitian truths.

I know exactly what you mean...I had a visiting nurse coming in after my fourth son was born...she came in with her nose in the air, sat down and took out a notebook, as we talked she wrote. We discussed some things and then she had to go to the car for something. I sneaked a peak at the notebook left there on the coffee table and was shocked to read that 'mother appears unkempt, children not dressed in day clothes, and house cluttered, messy'. I was livid! When she came back in I asked her to take the notebook and read back to me what I had just read. She wouldn't. I told her she wasn't there to help me...but to spy on me for whatever reasons...and asked her if she had kids. I didn't give her a chance to answer...but went to the door and opened it for her. It was kinda funny...kids were all quiet for a change lined up watching us with big wide eyes. After she left I went in the bathroom and cried....my mother said to me later, what the h*ll did she expect? Four kids under five...at least they were clean and fed. lol

Point is...most of the workers are not in a position to be making the caliber of judgments that they do. It is way to subjective....and based mostly on impressions, not facts.

If messiness is child abuse, the world is in a heap of trouble! They would have had a field day with the house that I grew up in!!!

As I've said elsewhere....me and my kids played like we were all kids together. I thought it more importand to spend TIME with them...rather than stand at the sink doing dishes and shushing them out the door. When the house got cleaned, we did it together. I thought of them as people...little and needy...but people.

Like I said...their spouses came into marriage not knowing how to cook or clean...and my boys taught them. lol They also are pretty good dads too. Love to play and drive gramma crazy trying to get me down on the floor to wrestle with them all. lol Won't believe me when I say I'm breakable now.

Reminds me, we had a neighbor when I was growing up, her kids and their friends were never allowed in their house. Everybody congregated at my place and I like to think we had a lot more fun!

So, we are left with wondering what consitutes abuse, aren't we? The 'state' cannot step in when kids are taught to hate...verbal abuse is subjective too. Most people would feel that to teach kids to be rebellious or to hate is abusive. But if we allowed the state to step in and stop this...we give them 'power' to step in and stop parents from teaching their religious beliefs as well. How do we 'protect' kids from things so intangible as thoughts?

Yes, that sounds logical. I've heard such horror stories of foster care. Ever read 'A Child Called It'?

My feelings after raising five children and helping raise 13 grandchildren is quite like yours. I used swats too...only after making sure that they knew what they had done wrong, and then never in anger. When a child is very young it can save their lives to know that dangerous behavior is followed by a swat. At that age, words fail to convey the importance of some things. I feel it is abusive to allow a child to control the lives of their parents. Children crave and need structure and discipline. It is like a protective fence around them. Training a child to control his/her behavior is necessary. Some have said spanking makes them learn that violence is acceptable.
this is true ONLY if it is used in anger. The saying...this hurts me more than it hurts you... is true and my kids often saw me cry after spanking them. One of my sons asked me why I WAS crying, he'd gotten the whipping (only the term used - not reality) I told him that it made me very sad to see him have to struggle with right and wrong. That I wished he'd stayed innocent of wrong doing all his life. He got the point. The trouble that the people often see with corporal discipline is that they do not see it being used as a way to mold a child's heart in the direction of repentance. They see it used as a form of 'punishment' not discipline...the making of followers (as in the term disciple) If a parent has the attitude of PUNISHMENT it will tend to make more rebellion and lead to anger and violence in the child. If a parent teaches and backs up that teaching with a physical reminder that the teachings are to be followed...and plenty of love and acceptance as well, spanking is not harmful to the psyche.

AS for the child protective services....human error in judgment and human laziness and ineptitude keep even the best of laws from working as they should. I have often said...you can't make laws that MAKE people live right, right living and right governing come from within the human spirit...the law is only as good as the people enforcing it.

I want to say it's so good to be friends with you here...more like actually being face to face...and learn more about each other! Thanks for stopping by and please return again.

Thanks Debra...I joined here a while back but never really used it ...babygirl told me to start checking it out so i did and it is actually better than i thought....and its nice to see so many people on here from that other site we use...its kinda like home...lol

LOL...I thought the same thing! In fact..just today.

I'm looking forward to sharing in some of your discussions. Have you checked out Dawn and Libby's. They're on my friends list if you need to find them here. They have some wonderful and funny discussions.

I agree with you whole heartedly. I posted this discussion because our society as a whole does not agree, or there wouldn't be so many children abused and neglected.

I would hope it would help the child. I would hope that the abuser learned to stop abusing. Unfortunately those two things are not a given. It often turns out that the foster home is abusive and the abuser learns nothing. We live in a horrible world..we treat our most vulnerable like trash. sorry..in a real bad frame of mind right now.

Thank you for responding and happy posting to you too!

I know what you mean you would hope that reporting abuse would help the child or children because children should always come first,and yeah you would hope the abuser would learn the error of his or her ways and try to change,and yeah it sometimes turns out where the Foster Parents are even more abusive then the real parents,and the abusers often never learn from their mistakes,and keep abusing children,and I agree we do live in a horrible world where you can not trust anyone,and where people treat children which are a gift from God like crap,have a great day,good luck with your life,and all of your mylotting goals,and Happy Posting.

Thank you hellcowboy.

You are very welcome,have a great day,good luck with your life,and all of your mylotting goals,and Happy Posting.