Is it asking too much?  

Yeah, I used to think it was harsh, too, but it was the only way to get her to do anything when she was 4. She got away with everything because no punishment anything to her. But food--that was different. She was hungry so she would get her stuff done. I felt awful at first but over the years I have come to terms with it. If she really wants to eat bad enough she will do her chores. Obviously she doesn't care that much about eating either.

She can't be bribed either. We spend most of the summer in the house because of her. I will say "if you guys get your rooms picked up we'll go to the park." The other two will run off to get their stuff done but she will literally scream at the top of her lungs that it isn't fair for her to have to clean up a mess that she made for 3 hours. Of course that means we can't go. I can't leave her at home by herself. Everyone else suffers because of her attitude.

There have been so many beautiful days we have sat inside because she refuses to do anything. I have offered things like treats (cookies), toys back that have been taken away, time alone with me, new books, trips to the park, etc. She doesn't care about anything.

Taking the TV away used to work but then I stopped letting them watch except in the morning during breakfast and at dinner time if Daddy is home so that doesn't mean anything to her anymore since she never watches TV.

I try all sorts of things, too. If I hear about something that worked for someone I try it but so far nothing works. I did have 2 weeks where she was good. We got the girls one of those sorting bin shelf things (it has Dora on the side) and I cleaned their whole room and sorted everything and told them it had to stay like this and that was it. For 2 weeks they kept it spotless but then I got the flu and was laid up for a week and they stopped picking up and haven't done anything since then. They are waiting for me to get in there and do it for them again (like I always do). I can't stand the way their room looks. It is the first thing you see when you walk into the apartment and there is no door to hide the mess.

And she doesn't take care of her clothes. She throws her stuff everywhere. In the car the other day she drew all over her jeans with a pen because she felt like it. (I took the pens away). She drew on her new shoes and her sister's shoes and convinced her brother to draw on his pants with a pen. She is out of control lately.

There just isn't much I can do to her, barring tying her up or locking her in a closet, lol. The way our apt. is set up I can't hear or see what they are doing in their rooms when I am in the living room or kitchen so they do whatever they want.

I tell them the same thing about their favorite toy. At first I told them I would take away the toys they didn't pick up but that wasn't motivation enough so I told them the first toy to go was their favorite. That resulted in 2 hours of crying from both girls and they lost their favorite toy for 3 days before they finally decided to clean up.

The problem with the homework wasn't that she needed help, she just kept wandering off because she was bored. Homework is a breeze for her. Her homework from yesterday was spelling words 3 times each (12 words) and a small book (about 70 words long and way below her reading level) with a worksheet with 4 questions on it. Plus there were two worksheets on time and money that they most have done in school and I assumed she needed to do them at home but it wasn't specified. Her homework for today was spelling words written out using colors for consonants and vowels and a reading sheet (way too easy for her) and to read their story in her reader.

Yesterday's homework would have taken her about 30 minutes normally. Today's homework usually takes her about 20 minutes. So about an hour to do it all with the extra worksheets but after 3 1/2 hours she still didn't have half of it done. She spent a good hour drawing a picture on the back of her paper listing her spelling words. She is just bored with school. She is in 1st grade but reads at a 4th grade level so the stuff they get is way too easy for her. Math is more trouble but she breezed through the money/time worksheets she had today.

she sounds like she is having a very hard time focusing on the issues at hand. Does she do her homework in a quiet room without siblings and distractions like tv and radio? My daughter had a HUGE problem with doing her homework too. She would get up and play with stuff and then go get something to eat then she would go to the bathroom and play in there for a while. I finally told her she had to do her homework in the dining room . I turned off the tv and the boys were not allowed to go in there for any reason. It worked! I have no problem with her getting her work done in 20 minutes or so every night!

I do have the problem of gettine her to clean up her messes though. She doesn't care if I take all her stuff away. I can tell her she can't have her friends over, I can tell her no TV, no internet, no phone. Nothing works. If you come up with a solution. . .Let me know!

"She is in 1st grade but reads at a 4th grade level so the stuff they get is way too easy for her. Math is more trouble but she breezed through the money/time worksheets she had today."

As a former teacher, and as the mother of three gifted students, I would suggest you talk to the school about putting her in some advanced classes, or giving her some more advanced work in her class. She obviously needs something to keep her interested and motivated.

Her teacher told her she had to have the homework done tonight. Maybe because it is a shortened week. Don't know. She wasn't sick. She missed school because she was tired. We were all tired. We spent Easter in Chicago and got delayed when we tried to leave on Monday and didn't get home until almost midnight. We were all exhausted on Tuesday and she threw a tantrum because she didn't have a pair of jeans to wear to school and I was way too tired to deal with her.

She pulled the same thing today but I had a little more rest last night so I dressed her myself and dragged her to the bus stop. I understand she is wound up from school but we tried to let her relax after school. But 30 minutes led to 60 to 2 hours, etc. She refused to sit back down to do her homework so now she has to do it first thing. Quicker she gets it done the quicker she can go play. Normally she loves homework and does it real fast but she was tired today since she didn't go to sleep until after 10pm last night and was up at 7am (she still needs 12 hours of sleep a night but doesn't get it).

I don't know what else to do except take meals away. If I let her eat before she finishes her chores she has no motivation at all to do them. There is nothing I can take away from her that will make her clean up or put her clothes away. There is nothing I can bribe her with to make her do her chores. She just flat out refuses to do them and she ruins every meal and every holiday and every trip we take with her attitude.

She pretty much ruined Easter dinner. She threw a fit as soon as she saw her plate of food and started screaming that she doesn't like ham and wouldn't eat it and stormed off. My husband dragged her back downstairs and made her sit at the table where she whined and cried through the whole thing.

She threw a fit on her sister's 4th birthday so bad she had my 4 year old in tears. Great memories to have. She did the same thing on her sister's 3rd birthday, too--demanding that her sister turn over her new toys to her because it wasn't fair that she didn't get something (not that she ever shares her new stuff with her brother and sister).

I try to reward the other kids when they do good so she can see they get something but she doesn't care. She gets grounded to her room while they get to watch a movie on TV. She doesn't care since I can't see her form the living room she just plays or reads a book.

So she missed school because you were too tired to make sure she got there, and then you punished HER for it by giving her a hard time about finishing the homework and the chores. She's getting mixed messages from you...one day you're telling her, by your actions, that school's not that important, and the next day it's important enough to take away her dinner.

Well, what else do you suggest?

She gets away with never cleaning her room otherwise. She never does anything around here. her sister does all the cleaning while she is at school. I have taken away all her toys, the TV, her crayons and paper, playing outside, reading and anything else I can think of. None of those make a difference to her. She still throws stuff around, yells and screams, hits and fights with everyone. There is nothing else. She literally spends days at a time grounded to her bed for her bad behavior. Just now when she was supposed to be doing her homework she colored all over the wall with her pencil then blamed her 1 year old sister. She colored all over her sister's bed, on her jeans, her shoes, the walls of her room.

She won't stop since there are no consequences that mean anything to her. Everything has already been taken away. She doesn't care that her brother and sister get to do things that she doesn't. Well she does care because she screams about it not being fair but she still won't do her chores. She just says that it is my fault she can't clean her room and that I'm not fair and that she hates me.

Every day she says she will get her stuff done before dinner. Then when it is dinner time she promises to do it as soon as she is done eating but as soon as she is done eating she has no reason to clean up. What else can I do to her after she eats? She has the only thing she wants: food. Send her to bed early? So what, you can't force her to go to sleep and I can't keep her brother and sister out of the room so she always has someone to play with. They were up until my husband got home at 9:30 tonight and she has to be up at 7am. Another day of her barely able to keep her eyes open.

I just don't know what else to do. She has no respect for any adults. I mean, she even drew all over my dad's walls while we were visiting. So because of her coloring on all the walls I have to take the crayons away from all the kids. They are always being punished because of her. Like not being able to go to the park or play outside or watch movies or do anything fun because I can't let them do those things and stop her at the same time.

I am bored with life now. We spend every single day in the house doing nothing because of her. I hate to say it but she ruins every single day that I plan. We went to the zoo last week and she whined and cried the whole time and drove us nuts. her feet hurt and she was hungry and she didn't want to go see that animal and she wanted to buy that and etc etc. It was awful. No one had any fun. We have gotten to the point that we plan to do stuff as a family while she is in school because at least we can enjoy things then.

I am just so tired of her. I can barely stand to be in a room with her most days because all she does is whine about everything. If she doesn't get to choose what show to watch she throws a tantrum. If someone is using the crayon she wants then she throws a tantrum, takes the crayon and hits whoever has the crayon. If I don't make what she wants for dinner she screams at me. She refuses to eat anything I make anymore. She tells me that she doesn't like what I made even if she just ate it last week.

She isn't abused and she isn't neglected, although she seems to think she is. She is just spoiled. She even told me she was a brat. She was kind of proud of it, like it was something cool to be a brat and get what she wanted. She controls everything that happens in the house. It's not like I can take the other kids and leave her home because my husband works from noon until 9:30. I am alone with them all day. I take the younger kids to the park when it is nice and when she gets home she throws a fit because she didn't get to go. I tried taking them out to play while she finished her chores but she just stood there screaming at us. I can't leave them out alone to deal with her so we either listen to her scream or we all go inside (which is usually what happens).

I am seriously at a loss. I am so tired and stressed. Between her and my one year old who is just being a normal clingy toddler I want to pull my hair out. I spend all my time dealing with those two. I never have time for my 4 and 5 year olds. Things were so much easier when they were babies. She was a perfect angel when she was 2. never once had a tantrum. Then she turned 3. I thought it was a phase she would grow out of but she gets worse every year. She throws more tantrums them my other two combined when they were toddlers. I have to physically dress her in the morning because she doesn't like the clothes that SHE picked out the night before even after I informed her there is no changing her mind. She refuses to bathe. If I force her into the bath or shower she makes herself throw up. She won't brush her teeth or brush her hair. She wears the same clothes over and over even when I tell her to take them off so I can wash them. When I finally got her to give them to me she screamed the next day before school because she wanted to wear those jeans. It is insane.

I am told that she is an angel in school. She never talks out, always listens and is cooperative and quiet. I asked her how come she can behave in school and pick up there and she said because other people help her and she doesn't have to listen at home. She acts like no one helps her. Problem is no one wants to help her anymore because her idea of us helping her is us doing all the work while she wanders around the house putting one or two things away. She can spend 15 minutes cleaning and only put 4 or 5 things away because she will only pick up 1 thing at a time.

Oh, and now she lies. She flat out lied about writing on the wall. She tells me she cleaned her room but when I tell her I'm going to go check and start to get up she runs off because she knows it isn't done. She knows right from wrong but doesn't care because no punishment means anything to her, not even a spanking. Means nothing.

I give up. She's going to spend half the summer with my sister in law because I can't take it anymore. I want one summer where we can enjoy doing things outside. Where I don't have to listen to her whine and scream at me for hours on end.

She sounds to me like she is crying out for attention. How much time do you and/or Dad spend just with her, focusing ONLY on her? As the oldest, she may be feeling a little ignored, a little shifted out of the way by each new baby. Refusing to accept you as an authority figure is her way of rebelling, of letting you know that she needs more......I agree with the idea of finding a counselor/therapist--not just for her, but for BOTH of you.

Mom of four... I hear your overwhelming frustration and resentment of your oldest child. I'm not suggesting that what you feel is wrong or that you shouldn't feel the way you do. Feelings aren't right or wrong, they are just feelings, and I can sympathize with your plight. I'm not suggesting, either, that she is abused or neglected, however, some of her behaviors are typically seen in children who have been sexually abused, specifically refusing to bathe, lying, etc. Again, I am not suggesting she has been or is being abused, but it may be something to take into consideration.

I hear your frustration in trying to deal with the behaviors, but sometimes you have to reach beyond the behaviors to get to the root of the behaviors. Your daughter is acting out for a reason. It could be an abuse response, it could be an autism issue, Asperberger's issue, or any number of things. When traditional interventions don't seem to work such as taking away toys or privileges, I think it's time to call in an expert such as a therapist or counselor. If your community has a local community mental health center, you may even be able to get some services at little or no cost. If you have insurance, you may want to look into a private therapist. It's obvious to me that you're having a relationship problem with your daughter for some reason. Finding outside sources of help doesn't mean you are not a good mother. If anything, it would mean you love your daughter enough to get her some seriously needed help.

But let me ask you another question... What if she was being abused by someone? Do you think you always know when abuse occurs? I can tell you, that's not always the case. And she wouldn't necessarily tell you it was happening, either. Again, I suggest these things as someone who works in the field of child protection. It's not that far-fetched. Wouldn't it be better to know what's really going on so the issue can be addressed and find a solution instead of trying to keep a Band-Aid on a gaping wound?

Furthermore, why cause your other three children to suffer because your oldest daughter is having some serious behavioral issues? It's not fair to them, it's not fair to you or your husband, and it is most certainly not fair to her.

You asked what else I would suggest... Call for some outside help. If you have done everything you know to do, and nothing is working... make the call before you lose your daughter for good.

Best of luck to you and your family.

Just yesterday my 4 year old asked me if they could race to see who picked up the most (between her and her brother). I looked at her like, "why are you asking me?" I have told them that before. To quick, hurry and see who gets done first but then they get upset if they don't "win". They drive me crazy

It's not like we starve her. The no dinner thing doesn't happen often. They aren't expected to make their room spotless to get their dinner. I just expect some effort. If they show that they tried to clean up then they eat. But she doesn't even try half the time. With her it is more about defiance. She openly defies us by refusing to do anything we ask and that is what gets her in trouble.

And she rubs off on her brother and sister. When she isn't home the other two hurry and get their tidying up done before lunch with no problems. They don't whine and cry and do a better job then when she is around. When she is home they hear her whining and getting away with stuff so they do it too and then they all end up in trouble. They won't pick up unless she does because otherwise it isn't fair. I tried to explain to them that she is the one that will get in trouble and miss out on whatever fun things I have planned while they get to do it for finishing their chores but they are only 4 and 5 and they don't get it.

Bedtime is a whole other issue. She refuses to go to bed when we tell her. Her bedtime used to be 8pm but she would stay up until 10 or 11 playing and talking and keeping her sister awake then be exhausted in the morning, which the teacher blamed on poor parenting. Like I can force her to go to sleep.

We tried moving her bedtime to later, thinking she wasn't tired at 8pm. that resulted in her staying up even later--until 11 or midnight and being even more tired. So we moved her bedtime to 7pm. She is usually asleep by 9 or 10 now but she is still tired every day. Which I think causes a lot of the problems. She is cranky and whiny because she is so tired but she hasn't napped since she was 2 and no matter how tired she is she will not take a nap. I have seen her with blood shot eyes, dark circles under her eyes and unable to keep her eyes half open but if I tell her to take a nap she says she isn't tired and refuses to lay down. She won't even sleep in the car (the others are out within 30 minutes of starting a car ride even if they just got up from a nap, lol). She makes me feel tired just looking at her.

Normally her sister puts away her own clothes. She had to do it this time since her sister cleaned the room earlier in the day. My oldest never cleans anything, that's the problem.

She gets up at 7am and we leave the house at 7:50 to go to the bus stop. During that time she gets dressed and plays with her toys. She doesn't have to pick up before school. She eats once she is at school so she doesn't get breakfast at home. After I get back from taking her to the bus stop her sister straightens up any mess they made that morning while I pour out the cereal then they eat and go play. Before lunch they again straighten up their room and then they make sandwiches (they love to make their own lunch so, unless, they need something cooked or the jelly opened I let them do it).

The problem is when she gets home and gets her homework done (on a normal day) she refuses to do anything else. Before dinner they are supposed to straighten up again so that the mess doesn't get huge but she says it isn't her mess since she wasn't home all day and won't clean any of it up. Technically it is true since the 4yo already picked up any mess the 6yo might have left but I think it is fair that she have to help at least once in the day but she doesn't see it that way. But, then again, even when she does make the mess she still says it isn't fair for her to have to pick it up.

Last summer we spent 8 weeks at my dad's house helping him recover from a heart attack. The middle 2 kids spent 2 weeks at my in-laws house. The day they came home I told her to make sure her room was cleaned up because it was a disaster. I had already picked it up for her twice while she was playing at a friend's house.

I got back from getting the other two and of course the place was still a disaster (every toy was on the floor--she had just had a birthday so she had a bunch of stuff and her clothes were strewn all over the room--dirty and clean so I couldn't tell which was which) and I tell her she needs to clean it up before the pizza arrived. She had about an hour to pile her dirty clothes in one corner, collect her clean clothes and put them back in her book bag and gather her toys in another corner. What she did was scream that it wasn't fair and that her sister should help her. Her sister hadn't been there in 2 weeks so didn't even touch that stuff but she demanded that she help her and when I told her she could do it herself she threw a tantrum, screamed at me, hit me and said she hated me and her sister and slammed the door. She never did clean up her room and ended up having all her new birthday toys taken away.

I don't like taking her meals away. I prefer her to eat with us. It is a last resort, not an every day thing. I have tried to let them finish the chores after dinner but as soon as she is done eating she has no reason to pick up any more so she does nothing. She got what she wanted--dinner--so why clean up? That is how she works. She promises me all the time that if she can have lunch or dinner or whatever then afterwards she will finish her chores and I almost always give in and then once she is done eating and I tell her to go finish she just says she doesn't feel like it now and goes off to play until the next meal. That is usually when she misses the next meal because she tries to pull it again and I won't go for it.

Yesterday was a special circumstance but the reasoning for all that went on was because of her attitude before she left for school. she was already in trouble before she got home and homework and chores with no play time was her punishment. I can't help it if she screwed around for 4 hours doing her homework so that she missed dinner. She would have been up until 9 or 10 still doing homework if she stopped to eat (and that's without doing the clothes). If she would have just finished her homework instead of playing with the baby and drawing on the wall and drawing a picture then she would have ate and she could have done the clothes today. But she didn't care about that. She wants to do things her way and only her way.

I'm not trying to be mean with her. I'm trying to teach her that there are consequences to her actions which she does not comprehend. I tell her point blank that if she does not do X then she does not get Y. But when she doesn't do X she screams because she can't have Y and then says it's all my fault that she didn't do X or that she can't have Y. She doesn't see that it was her own fault. The other kids seem to understand this and they are younger then her.