I'm simply heart broken over this foster puppy.
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
United States
April 17, 2007 2:25am CST
As many of you know, I am currently "fostering" a puppy that was saved with 30 other dogs from a puppy mill. The whole issue has been a mess from the beginning and it is looking now like the woman who had these 30 dogs and 4 goats is going to get her animals back, all because of a stupid technicality when they went to take the animals. The group that took them to find them foster homes tends to think they're above and beyond the laws anyways and in this case was told by the State Troopers to meet them at this house and help them get the animals out. They went in BEFORE the troopers got there, although only by a few minutes, and started removing animals - therefore they didn't have a warrant until the troopers showed up. End result is that this woman is going to get these puppies back.
Now this little guy we got literally is a small to medium small sized dog. When we got him she was feeding ALL of the dogs nothing but goats milk and bread. He weighed literally the same as our puppy chihuahua, about 2.8 pounds. We've had him for maybe a month and he's already like a puppy he should be. Probably about 5-7 pounds. No parasites any more, before he was full of parasites and fleas. He's full of life and vigor, has a bit of weight on him and is "normal" for his age and size/breed. He's finally learning how to pee outdoors, although the other end seems to insist on warm carpeting! LOL But he's learning. He's fit in so well being a house dog with a family and other pets around. He's as sweet as sweet can be. But now it looks as though he will be returned to a cage/pen that houses him and a good 8 or 9 others. He will once again sleep and walk and dine on his own feces. He'll get matted up with dog poo and pee and probably once again suffer from parasites.
I've thought long and hard about what I could do. One option is to lie and say he ran away and have a friend take him for a while. But I can't lie. I know I can't. It's not the way I am. So then I thought well maybe I could buy him off the lady, as this was her only reason for having them anyways and she sells them for $300 each (yes, they're not even papered or even pure bred dogs but somehow she claims she gets that amount for them?). So I was thinking, I know I don't honestly have an extra $300 to put out for this little guy as I'm currently coming up with extra money left and right for my oldest daughter's graduation and all the costs involved, along with paying some downpayments on her college, etc. that I normally don't have to come up with. So while $300 wouldn't sound like much to some.. it's a bit hefty for me to come up with at this point. But I still might try to figure out HOW to do it.
I'm literally at my wits end thinking of this baby going back to that life. He doesn't deserve it. I would be fine if he were going to another home to live that would love and appreciate him, as I knew we wouldn't be keeping him anyways since we were "fostering". But knowing what he's going back to and thinking how far he's come... I'm in tears.
Any suggestions or thoughts?
16 people like this
23 responses
@CinderInMySoul (4717)
• United States
17 Apr 07
shoot. this is awful to hear, just when you've gotten him healthy and being a proper puppy, he gets thrown back into the fire.
are the Troopers or ASPCA not even going to continue with neglect charges?? infestation of parasties, malnutrition and feces are reason for neglect charges.
maybe call and ask the Trooper that was in charge of this whole thing and see if he has any suggestions. or as the ASPCA..or is that the "group" that went in ahead of schedule?
ugh..i havent been able to give you anything worthwile other than perhaps my sympathies. if i was in your place i would probably take the dog to a friends and say it got out, like you mentioned...
4 people like this
@kgwat70 (13387)
• United States
17 Apr 07
I do not think it is right or fair that you have to return the puppy that you now own. That is very sad that these animals have to go back to living a poor life with that terrible owner. I think the puppy is in much better hands with you and enjoys being around you. You take care of the puppy much better than the previous owner and just because of the technicality, I think the new owners should be able to keep their pets. What is she doing with so many dogs? I have heard of other people having lots of cats and they always neglected their pets as well. That person should not have that many dogs.
4 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
17 Apr 07
Good morning Hockeygal4ever,
I was in a very similar situation once. We fostered a dog while we tried to find a suitable home for her. She was running loose, being chased by a pack of male dogs, and was nearly hit by two cars as she tried to escape the pack. It was her first day of her first heat.
I scooped her up and brought her home. The next two weeks I spend going from house to house trying to find her humans. When I did, I learned that her destiny there would have been chained to a dog house. They hadn't even named her because she was deaf. Incidentally, she was 10 months old.
Anyway, I had posted "Found" signs and called the shelters and the local vets when I first tried to find her home. A full two months after I picked her up, I got a call. That's how I learned about the deplorable conditions that she came from.
Of course, they wanted her back. I said "Fine" if you pay my fostering fees, which included spaying, medical treatment & medication for ghiardia, vaccines, and kenneling costs. The bill that I generated was a little over a thousand dollars. I suggested that they discuss their chances of winning or losing a small claims case if they refused to pay with their attorney. I never heard from them again.
That little deaf dog is now the apple of my eye. She's learned to adapt really well to her disability, and she is doing exceptionally well here in our little 'doggie world'.
So, you might try my invoicing/small claims threat. It worked for us.
I know how quickly they become a part of the family.
So, I wish you the very best with this.
3 people like this
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
• United States
18 Apr 07
Unfortunately because of the case and the press it's gotten locally, also because the D.A. is involved, etc. it's not up to ME what to say. I can't even technically approach the woman without being in trouble. Heck, I could come up with a huge list of "charges" for this little guy simply based on his chewing! LOL He's too young to be neutered yet and the rescue unit paid for all but his flea meds because he had to be checked before we got him as I have dogs and didn't want them being contaminated with anything. So my actual "costs" have been minimal other then puppy chow, 1 months flea meds which we get discounted because my daughter works in the vets office, and some chew toys, collar, leash.
We're waiting to hear because we've been told to be "ready" to jump through some hoops if the D.A. can get her to come to her senses and allow us to keep them somehow. I've had 4 phone calls today already.. one that said we have to go to the D.A.'s another said no, another said we have to go to HER house (she lives about 35 minutes from me) and another saying maybe not but we'll see.
The only thing official is that within 48 hours of their decision we have to get the dogs back to her or POSSIBLY be able to adopt them. So at this point it's a minute by minute. We have until tomorrow (Thursday) to make things happen and we will work until we can't work anymore to get them done!
This baby and all of his brothers and sisters don't deserve to live like this at all!
1 person likes this
@brendalee (6082)
• United States
17 Apr 07
How heartbreaking. I wish I had the money to send to you but I don't. How long do you have until you have to give the dog up? Do you have any other programs that you belong too that some of us could sign up under you to help get you some more money? I will and I am sure others will too. I would also like to get your permission to repost this at my community forum. There are some big animal lovers on there who helped fight some of the puppy mills in my area. They might be able to give you some guidance. Its worth a shot. Let me know.
3 people like this
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
• United States
18 Apr 07
Oh no, please don't think I posted this to try to get money. I wouldn't feel right doing this. The program that was responsible for the whole thing thus far is truly very limited in funding. They're trying, so very hard, to get the money to save those they can. I'm not sure what they're doing so far. We have to surrender either the money or the dog by tomorrow I guess. I'll keep you posted.
This woman truly does not deserve to get these dogs back. I'm just heartbroken thinking he will return to that life. Thanks so much for your input though. Unfortunately in this area the press has been very very hard FOR this lady... long story... acting like she's this poor old lady who had these puppies as her only income and the mean ol' police and dog organization just took them from her. Believe me, she was NOT some great concerned breeder.
1 person likes this
@brendalee (6082)
• United States
18 Apr 07
I know you weren't asking for money. It was just something I thought of. Animals are very special to me and I would do all I could to help you. This case especially touched my heart because I had a dog named Charlie.
2 people like this
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
• United States
20 Apr 07
In case you didn't see it... we ended up literally hours before the deadline being able to keep our dogs with all these stipulations that the woman had and the sheriff agreed to. We got the dogs for $150 and had to go out to the woman's house to sign papers for them. That was a real trip in itself! Talk about backwards country folk! She takes the cake!
1 person likes this
@emeraldisle (13138)
• United States
17 Apr 07
I do agree with the one that suggested charging her for all the medical you have put out. It might get her to reconsider.
Also something you might check with the DA is if the state requires all dogs that are sold have to be vet certified. I know in Florida if you go to sell a dog or a cat for even a penny they have to be vet certified and have all their shots. Obviously when this dog came to you it wasn't and that might be enough to get her to release the dog but if not perhaps the DA could get her on that law as well. Something to check on.
Other then that if the dog is not a pure breed I don't see how she can charge that price. If it is a pure breed then sadly she can. You might want to find out if she'll go lower or take payments. Some will do that. I know you don't want to giver her any moeny and I do understand that. She'll just use the money and not on the dogs.
I know why you are worried about lying because it could come back and bite you big time. Still I can also understand lying as well. Too bad you don't know someone in another city who would like a dog. It would be better then having him go back even if you can't keep him.
@bonbon664 (3466)
• Canada
17 Apr 07
I feel for you. I know that you don't want to lie, but, in this case I would do whatever I could to keep this dog. You know that if the dog goes back to this women, it's inevitable that he will die. This piece of crap woman doesn't deserve her animals back. It sickens me that she doesn't get jail time let alone get her animals back. Even if you had the 300 to give her, do you think that criminal deserves to benefit. No way. Tell them you don't have the dog, meanwhile have a friend or reletive take care of him. Then you won't be lying.
3 people like this
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
• United States
18 Apr 07
Well, as you can see by above... I can't even take that option. The more I thought of it the more I realized it's not really an option because of the high profile case it is and how much press she has gotten. I'm currently awaiting a final phone call to tell me what the final scoop is. The D.A. has been messing with this woman all day to get a final "deal" and we still have a small chance of keeping him but perhaps jumping through some hoops. To be honest... I am NOT past lying for this... basically I told them if I have to be in front of her I can do it and make her think I'm on her side she's been so abuse, oh poor old lady I feel your pain, wah wah wah... while my mind is going "you deserve to sit in your own poop and eat goat milk and bread while parasites dine on your body you old bat".
I will keep you all informed... we still have a slight chance of keeping him.. we will see!
1 person likes this
@kbkbooks (7022)
• Canada
17 Apr 07
Oh, honey, I feel sad for you too. Almost in tears. I hope for that price it's a purebred dog, but that is not the most important thing. I think if I were you I would talk to your vet and the animal shelter and explain the situation. I don't know how much clout they have against the authorities in this case but it's cheaper than a lawyer to start anyway. I think if you could prove to them without much difficulty obviously that you are better for this poor animal than the woman is, they would find a way to get around what the plan is. I bet you are not the only foster mother who feels this way. I wish I could give you a great big tailwagginguntilmywholebodyshakeswhileilickyourfacehug!
2 people like this
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
17 Apr 07
I would ask the local ASPCA and perhaps they could give you some advice.
2 people like this
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
• United States
18 Apr 07
They won't get into this. Unfortunately with the D.A., the state police, the local shelter that's helping them and the high amount of GOOD press this woman has somehow gotten (long story) nobody but nobody will touch anything involved with this other then those already involved.
I'm still waiting for a call to say there may be a change and if I have to I can kiss up big time to her and tell her how sorry I feel for her if it means keeping this little guy from her.
@cjsmom (1423)
• United States
17 Apr 07
Oh, I just can't believe that people like that are allowed to own animals. The poor little things. See if you can do what, ladyluna suggested, above in her response. Pray things work out well and you're able to keep pup or at least find him a good home.
2 people like this
@Katlady2 (9904)
• United States
18 Apr 07
Oh, hon, you simply can't let that adorable baby go back to that terrible way of life. I know it's against your better judgment to lie, just like it would be for me, but I think in this situation it would be a good thing. Have your friend take him for a while. Please don't let that baby to back to a life in a dirty cage. If it's any consolation, Buddy, my yellow lab/pit bull mix, belonged to a person that lived down the street from my best friend. He found me during my daughter's birthday party at my friend's house, and I ended up taking him home. He was rail thin..only 45 pounds when he should have been at least 70 pounds. When I found out who the owner was, and that he had been training Buddy to fight, I was so upset. The guy was asking around about him, and my friend and I said we had no idea where he went. The best part is that the veterinarian that I take all of my animals to said he was glad I didn't give Buddy back. And since then, the guy has had at least 3 other dogs removed from his home. I think in your case, lying about the puppy's whereabouts is completely justifiable.
1 person likes this
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
• United States
20 Apr 07
Being honest in the end worked out for me though!!! As posted in another discussion, we literally were down to the last hours when the D.A. and sheriff came to an agreement with her about how to handle it, etc. and she let MOST of the puppies and dogs be adopted for $150 each. The breeders she got to keep plus supposedly 2 other puppies but 20-something pups were saved from her so it was a success for the most part! God does answer prayers!
@LilyoftheThorns (12918)
• United States
18 Apr 07
It is terrible and so stupid that that terrible woman is going to get her animals back. the law needs to step up and not be so stupid. I would take everyone of those animals if I had the chance! I think you should really fight it! Don't give that dog back, make a petition. If you get a lot of people to sign a petition than you could have a chance to keep all those poor animals away from that "woman."
2 people like this
@KissThis (3003)
• United States
17 Apr 07
Wow !! I can't believe that they have to give her back the animals just because of a technicality. I think that they should be able to keep the animals since they can prove the mistreatment and abuse. Because they didn't foolow the steps needed to rescue the dogs from her care don't give her a fine.
I feel bad for those poor animals. I wish that there was something I could do to help.
2 people like this
@gizmo528 (731)
• United States
17 Apr 07
I don't agree with this whole situation. The police and lawyers should take into consideration how these poor animals were living. That should count for something. I wouldn't pay her a dime, becasue she doesn't deserve it and if anything she should be paying the community back. I hate to lie also but in this case I would like until I was black and blue. I would not give that little puppy back under any circumstances. Take it to a friend or family member and lie about it. I hope everything works our for you.
2 people like this
@kodie420 (872)
• Canada
17 Apr 07
I know this is very dishonest but just say the dog ran away or got lost and offer to pay the orignal owner something so she wont bother you about the dog again. If you let that dog go back your right it will have to endure harsh punishments and dirty house which no animal should be forced to live in. I hope all works out for you and my heart go's out to your dog. Good Luck!
2 people like this
@hockeygal4ever (10021)
• United States
18 Apr 07
Well, as stated above and throughout, it's too high profile of a case to do this. The more I thought about it the more I realized it wouldn't work even if I did lie.
Keep praying.. we have a small window of opportunity left to save him. Just pray it all goes the right way.
@mithiladarpan (131)
• India
18 Apr 07
You are kind hearted.But be practical and make the authority aware and take charge the situation.Even if you somehow manage and keep this puppy by giving 300 bucks,the situation in general wont't change.The said lady would pocket your money and keep going as usual.
@shakadoodoo (737)
• Dallas, Texas
18 Apr 07
You may just need to tell her the dog ran away so you can make sure the dog has good care. If you are doing it for the right reason then it should not be against your morals.
@copperkitten (3473)
• United States
25 Apr 07
Thats terrible!!!!! I cant believe she would get them back! Im glad you have taken care of him and he has been loved. I wish I had 300$ to give you!! I would in a heartbeat!! If it was me I would take the dog somewhere and hide it till all this blows over. That or say he got out and ran away! Thats what I would do. Poor puppy! God I hate people like that. They should be put in a cell thats 4ft x 4ft no food, no water, no toilet and left there to die!!!!! Just my opinion! Well I hope all goes well and you can keep him!!!
@rx4life (1930)
• United States
18 Apr 07
This definitely tugs at my heartstrings...poor puppy...just getting to experience the way life should be and he'll be sent back to the horrible ways he lived before...Is there ANY chance they won't let her have them all back? And how does she get such an outrageous amount of money for a dog that isn't purebred or registered? Perhaps you could challenge her price? Maybe find someone willing to buy a dog and get them to offer a reasonable amount...oh, I don't know what I would do..I'd be tempted to say he ran off but..I'm sure she'd come for her pound of flesh since that's all that matters to her.. it seems something must be done to stop these puppy mills that all but kill the dogs...I wish I had an answer...but hopefully since this has come to the attention of the authorities she would be willing to part with him for a reduced price and you or a friend could get him!!! I know if I lived close I would definitely try to bargain with her...you are a wonderful person to help those poor animals out...My son and daughter in law are a foster home for rescued dogs in Los Angeles...they now have 2 that they couldn't ever let go back for adoption!!! And I'm sure that number will grow!!! Good luck..keep us posted...:)
@sunshinelady (7609)
• United States
17 Apr 07
I know this is breaking your heart. As you say if the puppy was going to a good home that would be different. You have nurtured and loved this puppy til it started to be the way the puppy should. I find it hard to believe that she gets 300.00 for the puppies especially when they are in the shape they are in when someone comes to look at them. I would be contacting the people who take care of removing animals from places that abuse the animals. I feel in my heart for you and I hope you can work this out so that little fellow of yours doesn't have to go back to a home like what he was in.
1 person likes this
@CritterKeeper (519)
• United States
25 Apr 07
I haven't had a chance to read through all the responses you've gotten but, for the future or anyone else reading this, here's another possible alternative. I ran my own rescue for over 10 yrs and learned in that time that in cases like these the law is certainly not always what's RIGHT. I've participated in my share of "midnight rescues"! Is it theft and could I have been in real trouble? Yes. Was it worth it to me? Absolutely. I knew the risks and I accepted them fully. Does it bother my conscience? Actually it does! I can't say that what I did was right or not but I do feel that even if I was wrong I'll take that stain onto my soul in exchange from saving a few innocent animals from some really horrific conditions.
As for this particular case and puppy I believe what I would've done is post everywhere far and wide that this puppy was in danger of going back to a mill. Secretly make contact with someone you feel you can trust who answers that post (and someone somewhere just about ALWAYS contacts you privately in these situations offering some "back door help"). Have that person steal the puppy and safely rehome it. Make sure that you don't know any details about this though! It's even better if you have more than one person offer to steal the pup so that you have no idea which person actually did it! Then when asked you can say in perfect honesty "The dog was stolen. I don't know where it is now."
See my conscience bothers me even saying these things but in my heart I know that doing things like this are a greater good in the end. Until people and the law stop considering pets "disposable property" and realize they are living, breathing, feeling creatures who need a whole different set of laws there will be outlaws running their animal versions of the Underground Railroad to save them from humanity's ignorant cruelty. I'm a bit guilty but very proud to have done some small part in this!
