Pope Benedict XVI canonized 4 new Saints.
By urbandekay
@urbandekay (18278)
July 17, 2007 12:18am CST
George Preca, Simon of Lipnica, Charles of St. Andrew andMarie Eugenie de Jesus
Yet where is the scriptural authority that allows the Pope to decide who is a saint, or is this just another in the long list of of Catholic innovation?
all the best urban
2 people like this
2 responses
@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
17 Jul 07
There is no such biblical authority. They get that authority through their oral tradition not from the word of God.
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@urbandekay (18278)
•
17 Jul 07
And part of the process, as I understand it, involves people praying to these 'saints' and praying to anyone other than God is prohibited scripturally.
all the best urban
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@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
17 Jul 07
I agree with you but others will tell you that they are not praying to the saint but rather asking the saint to pray for them and help them.
My thing is how are they doing so? By prayer!
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@urbandekay (18278)
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17 Jul 07
Exactly! One notable Roman Church pundit even stated as much in their post on a different discussion!
all the best urban
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@raisingsaints (217)
• United States
30 Jul 07
Matthew 16:13-19
Jesus acknowledges Simon Peter's revelation from God.
He gives to Peter the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. The significance of the keys is prevalent in Jewish theology and stated in Isaiah 22:20-24. Eliakim is given the keys to the house of David, and called the father of his people. With the keys, Eliakim shall open and no one shall shut, Eliakim shall shut and no one shall open. In this same sense, Jesus tells Peter, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. The holder of the keys is the father of his people and holds a position of authority.
Since His Church is a living Church, it must be maintained. This is the purpose of the office of the papacy, established by the assignment of the keys. Just as there are successors in the Davidic Kingdom, there are successors in the Kingdom of Heaven. Peter chose his successor, Linus (2Tim 4:21), to be the next holder of the keys. This line of succession can be traced to Pope Benedict XVI.
Even so, the keys only give the Pope the authority to declare a person, whose earthly life was marked by heroic virtue, to be a living member of the Body of Christ in Heaven. This declaration only comes after an extensive process. Only God decides who His Saints are, then He reveals them to His Church.
Do you believe the Apostles, any deceased relatives, friends, pastors, etc. are in Heaven?
@urbandekay (18278)
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30 Jul 07
None of which constitutes authority to create saints except by the most twisted reading and by doing violence to the text
all the best urban
@urbandekay (18278)
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19 Aug 07
My argument is not one of appeal to authority. I am not claiming any authority to say your interpretation is wrong, rather it is like this.
Consider the statement,
"There is a chair in this room."
Any interpretation that concludes there is no child in the room is wrong, not because of any authority but because the internal logic of the sentence demands such. To render an interpretation that concludes there is no chair in the room is to fail to speak English.
Forgive my lack of accuracy in my previous question, I should have said, where is the scriptural authority that allows the Pope to say who God has made a saint?
all the best urban
@raisingsaints (217)
• United States
20 Aug 07
You may not be claiming authority, but you say that my interpretation comes from "twisted reading" and "doing violence to the text", essentially saying that my interpretation is wrong.
Your example is only valid in this situation if the Bible said:
"The Pope cannot declare who God has made a saint." or
"Nobody can declare who God has made a saint."
There is no such verse, and on the contrary saints are spoken of frequently.
I have already provided scriptural authority, but I will reiterate here.
Throughout the Gospels, we see God working through man. It becomes even more prevalent after Jesus' Ascension, when the Church grows by the power of the Holy Spirit working through the men called by Jesus.
Matthew 16:13-19
A notable example of God's revelation to man is when Simon declares Jesus as Son of God. It is the words of Jesus that affirm the statement of Simon as revelation from God. He then gives Peter plenary authority over the Church such that his decisions on Earth are also his decisions in Heaven.
God reveals His Saints through His Church, not just to the Pope but to many people. It is the Pope who makes the declaration because as the successor of Peter, he inherits the keys to the kingdom and has plenary authority over the Church.
