All organized religions are flawed!
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
United States
February 21, 2009 9:49am CST
Organized religions are flawed because they take away the ability of the individual to think for themselves.
As a collective unit we tend to follow the wrong path if our leader is also on the wrong path.
To know and Love the Earth we need to spread out and share our knowledge all around the world, the model of Organized religion does this very well just as they hide the real truths very well.
The concealment of information leads to big, major problems in our world, all Pyramid schemes are modeled after the construction of Organized religion.
Some have written that my issues and personal challenges have nothing to do with anything else related in any way to issues that touch the core of my being very deeply.
Fiddlesticks and Hogwash...
I was asked to give other forms of Organized religion a chance, as though I haven't tried to be open to solve my issues and problems their way. Hey' Did you hear what happened to the first Church that I chose to attend? That Church was a combined Church and they split, and at that time I went through some troubling life changes. But I came back one day and spoke with the new woman pastor about these current issues that I'm having to endure, she sent me to another Church in Spinnerstown and that person seemed really rude as I was bringing in my family for counseling, my wife and my children. I couldn't even get that off the ground.
How about the media, Focus on the Family talk about non-denominational? Hey' they have an outspoken charismatic leader in James Dobson... I imagine his name would have a familiar ring to my ears and I would like to see if they could help? Did they? I wasn't a member of the Catholic Church so I was not openly welcomed there...
Then it dawned upon me why am I having all of this difficulty?
The answer was simple, defamation, prejudice, gossip all of these features rule the leadership of Organized religion.
It is much better to have a loosely knitted group of many friends than to have an Organized network that will rip you apart like a wild animal who is bad or on drugs or both.
Bullies should not rule your life and they should not be allowed to spin their lies of indifference proclaiming their truth is as good as any other truth when they are clearly following a pack of lies.
There is a truth to be known and there are facts and evidence to support the real truth.
If you ignore the facts and the evidence then you ignore the truth and follow the lies. How can anyone claim to be on the right path while following a bunch of lies?
These people that want to accuse me of becoming some sort of flawed human dictator have little idea of what I truly represent. I follow the path of promoting each person to a higher position working together as a team. A dictator is all about the I in his individual while a good leader is about bringing together the team to do the work for the greatest good of ALL...
Secrecy has to end and the thieves and liars need to be exposed. There is no place to hide you can't run. So own up to the fact that these evil deeds have happened and make right the wrongs.
I wouldn't keep punishing a person who has paid (his or her) debt to society. It is those people, who think they can get away with lying and stealing, or having cold spiteful hearts, that prevent Love from taking root, they need to be exposed and their crimes corrected. That is a huge mandate, one that needs to be taken on vigorously and swiftly.
The best place to begin would be with the elimination of all secrecy laws and structures of Organized religion.
Sure believe in what you want, but in the end it will all come down to one thing, and you certainly don't have to meet together on any day to participate in any organized service, that is just a complete waste of time and energy. Such meetings also allow for serious abuse both emotional and financial.
Is this piece an opinion piece of fact?
6 people like this
15 responses
@GADHISUNU (2162)
• India
21 Feb 09
Hi GWB,
You have spoken from your hard experience. How can anyone else deny your experience or question the opinion formation based on how and what life has dished out to you. Yes, organized religions [OR] do put you in a sort of straitjacket, compelling you to believe in [B]all[/B]they have to say.Now, that could be a problem as some of what the Organized Religions hold as sacred could be contradicting your experience.
There is no free-formatting in OR.If you need to free format your self, you need to give up OR. I do not know if that would mean any kind of trouble for you, socially. People fall in line with OR and continue to tolerate the unpalatable parts of OR for fear of being ostracized or excommunicated though this fear is quite a lot diluted in this age and day. But there is social life to be lived and that unfortunately is closely connected to OR.
@santuccie (3384)
• United States
21 Feb 09
There are at least 10 words in the Greek language that have to do with love, and they are all action words. Anyone whose heart is "filled with love" is tolerant of others. You show how loving you are by your actions, not by bragging about it.
To claim enlightenment while dwelling on pain holds no water. And when you tell people that they have more to learn (but you won't teach them), and that you'll let them know when they have attained enlightenment, I assume you're expecting somebody to believe it.
If they do, then you have brainwashed them into a new religion, with you as the deity (or at least priesthood). I'm steering clear of that, and advising others to do the same. Major world religions are indeed flawed, but yours is no better. Crush the church, synagogue, mosque, and temple while professing love for all people... something smells fishy to me.
The fact that you claim to be an authority on enlightenment, while being unenlightened yourself, defeats the whole argument. I'm not trying to insult you, but the fact is that you have been blinded by anger while claiming that it's your opponents who are blind, and calling yourself the victim while you continue to attack believers.
You defend fiercely those who believe as you do, but take affront with everyone who disagrees. What makes you better? The Bible says to love even your enemies. You criticize OR for "dogma" and "exclusivism," while attempting to incite the demolition of OR. What makes you better? You claim that people hate you for telling the truth. What is that truth? That you can lead others to the attainment of enlightenment while dwelling on wrongs done to you?
"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." (Psalm 1:1) To be scornful is to express contempt, which you have done every day for the past two or three weeks. You cannot guide.
I know it looks like I'm just "stalking" you, trying to undermine "the truth." But the fact is that I'm hoping (hoping against hope, apparently) to help you see that your "truth" may not be the truth, by pointing out each individual contradiction. Crushing the church, synagogue, mosque, and temple will not impress anyone; you cannot fight fire with fire. And like Obama said to the Taliban, "Your people will judge you by what you can build, not what you destroy."
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm trying to help. Salute!
-santuccie
P.S.: Laughing at dumb jokes is still good for your health!!!
1 person likes this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
21 Feb 09
Why Santuccie,
I sense that you are filled with fear that I might actually be correct in my thinking, after all to what lengths would you go to preserve something that is so flawed?
If you could bring peace to the Earth, what would you offer in order to gain that peace?
What would you give in order to obtain peace on Earth?
If the Church is the problem why not offer up the Church and give to the Universe something that has no feelings, it is built by the hands of man, it holds no real value other than that which we as humans place upon such a structure.
Now for the positives of giving the Church back to the Universe, we conserve on resources and reduce pollution. We could also free up a lot of free space, or we could provide shelter for those that have no homes...
You are the one making the accusations, with the old concepts of belief.
I get hurt by the Church and you feel that I should not profess to the world this testimony of what has happened to me and my family as a result of the lies that were covered up and you seek knowledge that I have and ask me to teach you of things that I am not at liberty to discuss.
If you had learned to be the example of that which you wish to promote you would not be in the dark on these matters.
You are in foul territory once again...
Sorry, no dice I'm not a gambling man... But I love playing Dungeons and Dragons...
1 person likes this
@santuccie (3384)
• United States
21 Feb 09
"I sense that you are filled with fear that I might actually be correct in my thinking, after all to what lengths would you go to preserve something that is so flawed?"
The only religion I believe to be more flawed than the one you are trying to create is Islam, and I leave it alone because I want peace. For anyone to follow you is to replace one exclusivist view with another. You talk a lot about how loving you are, and how you should have your right to believe and worship as you please, while thrashing the rights of others. The only thing about your thinking that scares me is that you're trying to spread it.
"If you could bring peace to the Earth, what would you offer in order to gain that peace?"
Respect and tolerance of others' beliefs, and discouragement of exclusivism (not to be confused with religion as a package). I am trying to offer it here.
"What would you give in order to obtain peace on Earth?"
See previous answer.
"If the Church is the problem why not offer up the Church and give to the Universe something that has no feelings, it is built by the hands of man, it holds no real value other than that which we as humans place upon such a structure."
Because it is not our right to impose our views on billions of others. If religion is indeed such a big problem, then it will fall like Babylon and all other corrupt empires. Evolutionary theory, while apparently leading scientists away from Sagan's "quite by chance" bandwagon, has been slowly chipping away at the old fables. Let God (or nature, if you prefer) be the judge, not Gary.
"Now for the positives of giving the Church back to the Universe, we conserve on resources and reduce pollution. We could also free up a lot of free space, or we could provide shelter for those that have no homes..."
Most of the world's people still belong to one OR or another. The only thing you would do is instigate more fighting. We've been fighting since '02; I'm a bit weary of it myself.
"You are the one making the accusations, with the old concepts of belief."
The high school argument, "No YOU'RE wrong!" does not fly. Examples, please.
"I get hurt by the Church and you feel that I should not profess to the world this testimony of what has happened to me and my family as a result of the lies that were covered up and you seek knowledge that I have and ask me to teach you of things that I am not at liberty to discuss."
I didn't say you should not profess your testimony, I said the way to get over it is to discuss it with someone and then let it go. If you do not let it go, then you are punishing yourself.
What things that you are not at liberty to discuss? You say everyone hates you for telling "the truth," while everyone waits with bated breath to read what exactly this "truth" is. And if you're not at liberty to discuss it, then how will someone else be able to discuss it when seeking your validation that they have attained enlightenment? Why are you beating around the bush?
[i]"If you had learned to be the example of that which you wish to promote you would not be in the dark on these matters.
"You are in foul territory once again..."[/i]
Sorry, but you're not going to overwhelm me with empty rhetoric. I am promoting respect and tolerance of other people's beliefs, and trying to get you to do the same. Please explain how I am in foul territory.
@tamarafireheart (15384)
•
21 Feb 09
Hi TheGreatWhiteBuffalo,
I used to be in a organized religion, a catholic but I broke away from it and became a pagan, I have met many hypocrites in the organize religion and ofcouse it is set up by men and I was not happy so now I have found path ande I am very happy, they accept you for who you are not what someone tells them.
Tamara
3 people like this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
21 Feb 09
Thank You Tamara,
Your words are far better than mine at this time,
It seems to me that I would rather be the me that I am.
I accept myself and others and seek to cause no one harm.
You are a sweetheart
Kudos with lots of big Hugs...
Thanks,
Gary
2 people like this
@nannacroc (4049)
•
21 Feb 09
Sorry I haven't read all that you've written but I can answer the question, OF COURSE all organized religions are flawed, they were invented by men and men are fundamentally flawed. Most religions want to keep people in their place e.g. women chained to the kitchen sink and pregnant and the poor accepting that they will always be poor and hoping for the 'pie in the sky when you die'. All of them ask for money, there a very few religions that do not have a lot of wealth somewhere. had enough now, there may be a creator but he would never have wanted the wars and divisions religions cause.
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
21 Feb 09
Excellent, I so agree with what you wrote...
Thank You,
Sincerely,
Gary
2 people like this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
21 Feb 09
I certainly hope you are free from Religious Oppression, the RO to the OR that violates the sensibilities with opposing thoughts that one is to be good but one is never really good, why, otherwise you would be god...
There are no unacceptable truths there are only people who desire to hide the real truth in order to get over on the rest of the world.
I absolutely agree that I need to be more succinct and completely compile the work into a complete exhilarating story of struggle and quest in order to provide a picture of clear quality that transcends from the sea to the mountains and beyond then back again.
This is a piece related to other pieces that I have written and a result of some of the responses.
You might wish to start here:
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1893191.aspx
From there I could take you to other threads, where we could connect all of the dots. We could dot the eye's and cross the tea's OR is that dot the tea and cross our eyes... Hmmm?
2 people like this
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
22 Feb 09
It sounds as if you have found nothing but turmoil at the places you have gone to worship. For this I am truly sorry. I also know that it holds much truth and much commonality with other houses of worship.
I have been very fortunate in that I have found nothing but peace and tranquility at my House of Worship, and it is an organized religion. There is no secrecy, no hidden laws, no spitefulness, no stealing or lying. Just a lot of dedicated folks building a school so our children can be educated in our faith and protected from the ills of the world as much as possible. Folks attending services on the Sabbath, and even during the week with adult education classes and brunch. There is much discussion and give and take of ideas. No one person forces their ideas on everyone else. It is wonderful!
Shalom!Adoniah
2 people like this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
26 Feb 09
I'm sorry you don't see the flaw in your religious practices, you don't force but you have this peace that no one else can share because you have what everyone else wants.
The real truth is that the structures are created with a follow my way or hit the highway mentality.
Organized structures of religion have cause this world a lot of harm, and yours is no different.
As you wrote to protect yourselves exclusive from the ills of the world.
Why is your world full of ills?
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (45123)
• Canada
24 Feb 09
All organized religions are flawed! So you say because you have not found a place in organized religion. What is the opposite of OR? It is disorganized religion, is that any better?
If you don't like OR then stay away from them. If they invite you to meet with them then tell him you are happy as you are.
Personally I don't want to be a part of a disorganized religion. Truth is truth is truth. Truth is what I want and if an OR has it then I want it. We are on one planet. If we are to thrive then we must be organized. We must work together. My motto would be: One planet, one people, one organized religion, one goal!
I'm happy where I am! 
1 person likes this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
26 Feb 09
The real truth is that we can not have one organized religion, it would be better to have no religions of any organized structure.
You have missed my point to continue to keep your beliefs as you feel you are helping the planet to die by not conserving as you could.
It would be an instant and dramatic change for the environment to not have all of that Sunday travel. Imagine...
Disorganized religion? Well excuse me, I have to think about that? How could any religious belief be disorganized?
I'm not sure that I follow your train of thought.
1 person likes this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
26 Feb 09
Let me see if I follow you, as you gather together in one building you are sharing with one small group, the building needs???
But to have all as one interacting together there could be a model for such a network, and there doesn't have to be a special structure if we all work together with love and we play or exercise together and work with each other and we communicate to help teach each other the right way instead of allowing the destructive path to be followed.
I'm still not sure that I have a clear picture, but the picture I see is getting clearer. Hmmm?
@1hopefulman (45123)
• Canada
26 Feb 09
So true, we are not one organized religion at this time, but one day we will be. That's my hope! Eventually religious truth is all that will exist and religious lies will be seen for what they are.
Sad that you feel that if we travel to a place of worship; that by doing so we are contributing to the destruction of the planet. Is not all travelling contributing to same? There are modes of travel that do not destroy anything but that are good for us, like walking. Why not walk instead of driving? That's what I do!
My point is that we will eventually unify into one religoius body. When it comes to worshipping God we will all do it the same way. One God, one faith, one religion, one way! We will become united, we will live in harmony, we will all show love!
1 person likes this
@rogue13xmen13 (14403)
• United States
22 Feb 09
You are the most common sense, logical person here.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
22 Feb 09
I believe this is an opinion piece. However, i feel very strongly in your right to voice it. I will respectfully agree to disagree. My response is based on my "walk with God".
they take away the ability of the individual to think for themselves
God gave us free will. I do not have to agree with everything my church says or does. It is a fellowship of like beliefs.
The issues you mentioned with your church experiences, really all I can say is I am very sorry and would say you attended the wrong places. I suppose most people will say that their church is best, however the one I attend is Congregational, very welcoming. We have people from all walks of life. We have people show up in suits all the way to pajamas. I have attended this church for about 5 years before I did anything other than show up Sunday then slip out right after the service. We never once got harassed. When I did decide to get involved and volunteer, everybody is very supportive and if you forget something or don't do something quite right, it's ok. I have never been around so many people with a true spirit of Christ.
Support for families and individuals, our Pastor works non-stop with not only our congregation, but offers help, support and counseling for everybody. I am very sorry for your experience. I would wish for you to try another place. If you would like to make a trip to Colorado, we would welcome you!
1 person likes this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
26 Feb 09
At one time I shared your view, I could see nothing wrong with the church and then I was order out of my bad and in my sleep I was attacked when my requests were not followed. Suddenly I became aware of the dangers, but it didn't really hit home until I saw the full blown glory of the corruption that exists.
I wonder how many churches and leaders have Swiss Bank accounts?
1 person likes this
@DavidReedy (2378)
• United States
6 Nov 09
"Is this piece an opinion piece of fact? "
Now, you're gonna' have to forgive me for picking on ya a bit, but in light of everything discussed. Is the above a parapraxis (Freudian slip) or should it truly, truly read "Is this piece an opinion piece OR fact"?
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
8 Nov 09
You know I can't honestly say that it wasn't a Freudian Slip, but as it was I allowed it to be, knowing me I would have posted the correction if it needed to be corrected and on the second read I sometimes find those little typeeo's quite amusing and thought provoking...
I think that I have mentioned in the past that I can be quite the brat... Taylor Swift does that song about being the one sitting on the side lines and she gets his jokes but fails to see her sitting over there in the bleachers wearing a tee shirt and not short skirts... She (Taylor Swift) has some very cool lyrics...
@DavidReedy (2378)
• United States
19 Nov 09
I'll have to check out Taylor Swift. Keep on threadin', man, whether I agree or disagree with you, I always dig the passion!
dr...
1 person likes this
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
22 Feb 09
Your quarrel seems to be with the Christian religion or maybe I am missing something here. Christianity in all its forms is not the only religion on the planet.
Religion is not going to go away. There has never been and probably never will be a human society that existed free of religion. Religion serves as a social cement that binds a society together. To serve this purpose a religion must have some form of cohesive organization. It must have ritual and a coherent belief or it is empty and without function.
1 person likes this
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
26 Feb 09
Actually we could have a religion not based in the organizational structures of modern day organized religions. I don't discount your whole point, just the parts of needing something that is not required.
There is the possibility of networking people in such a way at to be so linked that the fussion would bind the whole society together free from texts and buildings.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
22 Feb 09
Hi GreatWhiteBuffalo, I certainly agree that all organized religions are flawed and it'd difficult to see so many people thinking differently.Now I know many Christians who don't attend any church at all and others who chose one that they readily admit is not perfect but better than most. I also know those who have become completely disillusioned with Christianity and turned to other world religions only to find nothing better. Others turned to Buddhism where they found what they had been seeking. It has to be remembered here that Christianity as we know it today is not the religion of Christ but a religion built up around the personage of Jesus Christ. Christ himself would not recognize it as it is nothing like his teachings. That of course is not to say that there are no good people among Christians. Blessings.
@AnnieOakley1 (5596)
• Canada
21 Feb 09
I agree with you Gary that all organized religions are flawed. Very, very flawed. For all of the reasons you have stated.
I am so very glad that I never got forced into it by my family. My Roman Catholic Father tried, but my mother would have none of it. She said it should be my choice. Smart chick, my Mom.
I am trying to find my path right now. The one of my own choice, for ME.
I will go to the first link that you have provided for Barehugs, but would appreciate the rest of the links you spoke of, so I may read the entire story, if you would oblige me.
1 person likes this
@nanajanet (4436)
• United States
21 Feb 09
I feel the same as you, that I no longer have a reason in my life for organized religion. I have learned all that I want and now I read up on my own about all religions but choose to live the basics, which means do not hurt others, respect them and be honest and hard working.
Some people feel the need for organized religion, I do not.
You say Spinnerstown. I live near a Spinnerstown, just outside of Quakertown. Same state?
@TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (4822)
• United States
23 Feb 09
Nanajanet,
You and I are in the same county not just state, the church where I was married and excommunicated from, you are familiar with? East Swamp Mennonite... Old Bethlehem Pike and Pumping Station...
As to the person with the wonderful pastor, I hope they are not part of any of the churches that I've described... Let's open our eyes to what really happens behind the scenes... See how bad it can get for a person who is innocent and falsely accused and the fall out... Oh' my... What a tangled web they weave...
Looks for dangling thread to have the messed up knot all fall apart with one tiny pull... Yes, I believe it is the lie and covering up of all of the lies...
@nanajanet (4436)
• United States
22 Feb 09
That sounds like a great pastor!
There is a non-denominational church in our area that many go to. They just talk about being a good human and all that. It is not any one religion and it is just like being reminded to be good. That is how it should be.
@ClassyCat (1214)
• United States
22 Feb 09
Just my quarter's worth:
I don't suppose that I am a part of "organized religion" - not really sure what that even means.
I attend a church that seldom asks for money - yes, of course they take up an offering each week, but there's never any pressure to give.
My pastor doesn't tell you how to live - or what to do or not do. He is loving and kind, and just teaches what is in the Bible.
We are encouraged to accept Jesus as our Saviour, and become acquainted with the Lord in a deeper measure, through prayer, fellowship and reading our Bibles.
I have never heard my pastor put another church or pastor down, and find that in and of itself, quite remarkable.
He's the only pastor that I've ever heard, say to his people: "If I ever teach something that is not based on the Bible, or that you feel is wrong, please come and discuss it with me after service, because I am but a frail human and can make mistakes." I think that is pretty cool.
Sorry some have become so disillusioned and discontented with what I refer to as the nominal church.
I do not however believe in "paying the priest for anything." That's not in the Bible, and they have no power to get anyone into heaven. That is an individual matter between a person and God - man has nothing to do with it, with the exception of sharing the gospel with people.
Nuff said
@leenie50 (3992)
• United States
21 Feb 09
Hi Great White,
You have a wonderful way with words. You also are so passionate about this subject. I feel the same way about organized religion. I actually realized some of my major oppositions to it when I was in high school. I was raised Catholic so you can understand how I might become dissillusioned with the purpose of gathering in a Church to praise God. The Catholic Religion did very little to help connect me with God. I married a non-Catholic so it was easy to pull away when we moved from one Coast to the other. I've made a few efforts over the years to rediscover the Catholic and other types of Churches or should I say Religions. I found that as before they were still Churches with people doing their duty. Always passing the baskets for more money. Always more money was needed. Never a concern about what the individual members needed. Rules upon rules to live by or get out. Rules of course made by men. Men who claim to have the Word of God. Why do people believe that the written words were from God?
The Church buildings are usually huge and luxurious. My Dad and Mom spent their lives giving their hard earned money to the Church so that it could be made even more luxurious. Meanwhile my mom made all our clothes for nine children and herself and Dad. She and Dad worked at the Church in order to pay the tuition for us to go to a Catholic School from K thru 12th. We did without so that the Church could have what money they demanded in order for our parents to go to Heaven.I resented going into Church to be preached at for our duty to give money. A sermon about money every Sunday. And still every Sunday. I'm not angry, I just walked away. God and I have our own understanding.
leenie
1 person likes this
@xParanoiax (6987)
• United States
22 Feb 09
Religion in general is flawed because we as human beings are flawed. Organized or not, it's flawed. Because we're trying to understand something beyond ourselves, something immeasurable.
TRUE, organized religion is often used to rob people of their individuality. It's also used by people who're in love with power and control.
Alot of dreadful people often use it as a shield, as if it's perfectly fine for them to take something that's really important to a whole bunch of people and -ise- it for teir own ends. And THEN they go and encourage others to take part in using it, and it just...it breeds awfulness, it seems.
I think your experiences have shown you alot that too many turn a blind eye to. We all have pieces of truth, and this bit is mixed in with our opinion...which doesn't at all makes it any less valid.
