The online Grammar Checker or get out the grammar book

@suspenseful (40193)
Canada
November 6, 2009 10:14am CST
Not having gone through the university preparation program in Grade 10 to 12, I did not have the opportunity to know exactly when I made a mistake in writing, especially if it was where to put a comma when it appears not to need one, etc. the little things that ordinary people might let go, but as a writer, I am not allowed to. I have used a grammar checker, but find it unacceptable as it also has rules that are politically correct (I turned that one off) and yet when I wrote one online article, it was rejected even though I followed the rules there. So I was wondering for those who are dissatisfied the Microsoft Grammar checker as I am, what grammar rule book or what online site do you prefer? I am slightly far sighted and need reading glasses for very small print. So I do have a disadvantage that way.
3 people like this
16 responses
@mipen2006 (5528)
• Australia
6 Nov 09
Hi suspensful, I hate the Nicrosoft check, last time i looked at it, it was ridiculous. I'm like you, I haven't found a suitable grammar check, but I did yeach some writing in Thailand, so studied some books on the subject there, which help me now.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
6 Nov 09
I do get a little help from my books, but in some I am confused like the em dashes, the en dashes, and those little dots and whether there are spaces in front of them or not. It depends on what grammar book and where you are going to publish your story. With guidelines it is different, as they are specific. And then there are the hyphens between words or not.
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@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
8 Nov 09
I usually use dashes when there something not related to the sentence, not in the shirt thing, because he could be the murderer or the thief. It is sort of something interrupting the sentence for a while, and then after that thought is written, you go on with what it really was about. It seems that — unless I am mistaken — that the em or en dash has taken the place of the brackets or the bracket marks.
1 person likes this
@mipen2006 (5528)
• Australia
7 Nov 09
You're right. I never was taught about dashes in school, and have no idea when they were accepted as punctuation marks. I only use them when I am introducing a non-relevant phrase. For example, 'a man - wearing a purple shirt - was seen near the crime scene.'
1 person likes this
@Wanderlaugh (1622)
• Australia
7 Nov 09
suspenseful With punctuation, punctuate text as it would sound if spoken. Grammatical usage is in some cases optional, but the syntax isn't, and that's where most people make mistakes in their grammar. Just remember to be self-critical (well, you're writer...it's like saying remember to breathe...)and be extremely picky about situations where you're unsure of your grammar. If you have doubts, rewrite to avoid the situations. You can check grammar by simply copying text and searching it for a match. When you see alternatives, see which looks right. Everybody, and I do mean everybody, trips over something in languages, so don't hold it against yourself if you bump into things every now and then. Learn from it. I've written 12 books myself, and millions of words on the net, and I promise you, even when you've got an 0.1% error rate, it still happens.
• Australia
16 Nov 09
The practical use of phraseology is important. It overrides technicalities in grammar. A lot of grammar is more formal than appropriate. One of the experts on English usage, a guy called Fowler, commented 50 years ago that incorrect usage includes anachronisms, which includes quite a lot of formal grammar. It also includes a lot of verbiage, and sounds out of date. Correct modern usage is comprehensible, and doesn't use grammatical artifacts or overcomplicated sentence structures. A lot of formal grammar has become increasingly less appropriate and in fact doesn't serve any useful purpose but being grammatically "correct". If the sentence is clear in its meaning, and isn't lumbered with unnecessary phrases like "the place to which I'm going" instead of "the place I'm going", it's grammatically efficient, rather than merely "correct". Concentrate on content, rather than technicalities. If it makes sense, it's actually better grammar than dressing up a sentence with ornamental words and usage which achieves nothing.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
20 Nov 09
I have Fowler's book and it helped me quite a bit when I was learning to write for publication. I feel much of my worry is because I did not take academic but only business English in high school and did not acquire the good college vocabulary, etc. and I feel that business English is more simple then academic English.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
16 Nov 09
I get mixed up with the em dashes and the en dashes and those eliptical dots. I have rewritten a lot of phrases, and tried to copy the literary masters, but I still am unsure. It is hard getting it right. I agree it is the syntax, that even though it is grammatically correct, it does not sound right and yet if I write it so that it sounds right and I run it through that Word grammar checker, it says "wrong," So who is right?
@mtdewgurl74 (18151)
• United States
6 Nov 09
I haven't been in school in almost 19 years,I have forgotten alot about grammar that I learned. I forget where I am supposed to put comma's 90% of the time..or I put them where they don't belong..if any at all. So if you find a grammar checker that works well let me know about it also..because I feel so stupid alot of the time not knowing where everything goes in it's proper place. I can't do alot of the task for that reason alone.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
6 Nov 09
I have Microsoft and use their grammar checker, but i have to customize it because they have so many rules that are more politically correct or not to offend, then the usual do not put commas there. They have do not make long sentences, do not start them with Ands, and yet there are exceptions to the rules. I also have a couple of grammar books like Stunk and whatever you call, it Grammatically correct, and when I went to Open office, there was a supposed grammar checker, but it was more like the when to use lie and lay or mistaking their for there and not what i am looking for.
@mtdewgurl74 (18151)
• United States
7 Nov 09
ah ok..well I hope you find what your searching for ..
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
16 Nov 09
So do I. I have checked a few online grammar checkers, but not all. The one I am using only gives simple examples and they do have a test but I get some of that wrong, because the test shows more complicated examples. So what I want is a grammar checker like that online dictionary I use that gives various examples from the simple to the complicated, that is long sentences, etc. so I do not make any mistakes.
@mtdewgurl74 (18151)
• United States
6 Nov 09
When searching I found this.. so not sure if it is what you are searching for or not. But I do hope it will help. I didn't know there was anything online to help you with where you put commas and other grammar marks. http://spellcheckplus.com/ Not sure if it works well or not..or if it fixes where there needs to be commas or periods or exclamation marks now that is what I am looking for something to fix those.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
7 Nov 09
I did try the spell checker, and it seems to have something wrong. For instance, when one writes a conversation like, He said, "she felt rather cold, so I turned up the heat just a little," it suggested using a colon after said. But maybe it is when it is inside a paragraph. I will check again just using a quote. So http"spellcheckerplus is incorrect or it is not for American or British English.
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
7 Nov 09
I do not like the MS word Grammar error correction especially where it is related to verbs.I have the advantage of having had a formal University education and have also been teaching .I swear by the Grammar book of Wren and Martin.Whenever I am in doubt I keep this as my reference book. THis is good enough for the most important rules .I do not know if it is available online.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
8 Nov 09
I will see if I can find that book. I do not like the Word Grammar even when I customize it, because it is designed for business people and not for creative novel writing types like myself. I think when you are writing a story, that when you have a conversation, it is not in complete sentences. I find that the Word Grammar does not allow exceptions for conversations with "of course," "when?" etc.
@kalav56 (11464)
• India
9 Nov 09
Even while using such words as "when" or "of course', if it IS done as a direct speech wth proper punctuations then it becomes simpler. Isn't it? Say for example, you read a prose extract or short story written by P.G.Wodehouse,we do read such conversations. THe only thing is that they would be in successive lines.
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@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
11 Nov 09
I suppose they would, since they are spoken by different people. I have not read any of Rodehouse's works, I did see some of his work put on the screen, but not literature. I do find it hard when I am writing a conversation where there is a lot of talk exchange between different people. i really do not like putting each dialogue spoken by one person on one line, and the answer on another line, someone else on another line especially when I want to give the reader that they were all spoken at once.
@ElicBxn (63235)
• United States
6 Nov 09
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFanScene/message/25 I hope this link works... its a link to Strunk_W_White_EB_1979-Elements of Style-3rd
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
7 Nov 09
That would be something to look for. I know they have a book, but what I want is something online so I can put the phrase in and see if it is correct and also an online rule book that gives more then just two or three examples. I know there is an online dictionary I like that gives several examples, but I have not found a grammar checker yet.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
7 Nov 09
Okay. I will look into it.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (63235)
• United States
7 Nov 09
there's a link to download the book there
1 person likes this
@williamjisir (22819)
• China
7 Nov 09
Hello suspenseful. I was trying to find where I could get online grammar checker though I am using Mozilla Firefox to check my spelling. I wonder if we could just have this by using Mozilla Firefox. If there were such one that could be used at M F, that would be nice.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
7 Nov 09
I used the Mozilla Firefox for my spelling but I would not mind something to help with grammar, especially the numbers bit. I also find that depending on what country, there is a difference in the grammar rules. I did find one for Open Office, but it has not been perfected yet.
@raj_ka (431)
• India
9 Nov 09
hi, Though i have gone through universtiy program i too get mistakes and i think grammer checker is perfect option for writers as it can atleast remove simple errors which may overlooked by us. Rejection of article may be due to different reasons. Grammar is not the only reason for rejection. And as you said you have problem in viewing small letters i suggest you to increase the font and after editing everything while final submission set the font to the specified format(as suggested by the client)and submit it. I have used number of online grammar checking software and my article was not reject due to grammar problem. You can try spellchecker.net but i cannt say it No1. checking software.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
20 Nov 09
I also find that it is difficult when I am tired. I will check into more online grammar software. I did find two that were in conflict with each other, one that said that when you started a conversation, the"-- said" was followed by a colon instead of a comma as is the case in American and British usage, so that could have been the reason. I did check it and it confirmed to American usage of grammar.
@Hatley (163781)
• Garden Grove, California
6 Nov 09
suspenseful hi . I so far have struggled along using the microsoft grammar checker. It is not perfect but money is tight right so I cannot really afford a grammar rule book. Maybe one could find something on rules of grammar on the net.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
6 Nov 09
I did find one grammar checker on the net. They have a contest every week to see if you get it correct. You can also download a book but it does cost. The trouble they only give you a few examples and not all of them so that I get some of the answers wrong. I guess they want you to order a book. There was another online grammar course, but it is now defunct.
@fifileigh (3615)
• United States
8 Nov 09
i dont think i have used either one. i just read over it a couple of times, proofreading for typos because i dont always see my typos on the first time i read it. i like my writing style because many people have given my compliments. i have always thought my writing style is too light, and might bore people. but i guess lots of people like to read light and easy to read style. i prefer to read classic novels. i dont think i can write that level. most of them are very deep and thought-provoking material.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
16 Nov 09
I use the Microsoft Grammar Checker, but I customize it because I find as it is, it does not work. Either it is too politically correct, or it is just for business people or people with short attention spans. Then again there is the how many spaces between sentences, whether you are allowed to start with But, whether you want formal or informal. I love classic novels as well and I try to write sort of between ligtht and breezy and heavy. Guess I am sort of in the middle.
@mariposaman (2959)
• Canada
7 Nov 09
I did not know they have the grammar checker, however I fail to see how it would work correctly over time. I usually know most of the grammar rules because I was taught them in school. The best thing you can do is learn them so that you know them just like spelling, and user grammar checker just to doublecheck your work just in case. I know that even a spellchecker does not work 100% of the time and having a good grounding in spelling is your best bet. You have given me an idea though and I will check out a grammar checker to see if it works. How much does it cost to buy the Microsoft grammar checker and are there free alternatives?
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
8 Nov 09
I think there are free ones for Open Office. I do know that the Microsoft Grammar checker is included in Word but not in Microsoft Works. I also think there is a free one for Abiword, but i do not know if it is a real grammar checker or whether it is a choose the alternative word for the subject.
@ronnyb (6113)
• Jamaica
6 Nov 09
Wow I didnt know that something like this exists and it would have been helpful to me as I am not a writer either and there are times when I know I need help especially with the issues of commas.Sometimes I feel as if my sentences are too long and could use a comma here or there and so I will check it out .
1 person likes this
• United States
7 Nov 09
My seventh grade grammar teacher was very thorough in teaching grammar, so I rarely have a problem with it. If I'm unsure, however, I use a grammar textbook that I kept from my college days. I find they are more reliable than any grammar checker. It explains why something is the way it is instead of only pointing out your mistakes.
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@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
8 Nov 09
I did find a good grammar checker on line that sort of explained things as well, but the grammar checker of Word is not that reliable. For instance, it fails to give exceptions when the characters are having a conversation -with the "all right,:" and "where" The Word Grammar checker expects the hero to see, "All right, I will be at the meeting at five." and the other guy to say, "Where is the meeting going to be this time." In other word, two guys who are in a hurry to rob a bank have to speak in complete sentences. Then there is that rule about how long the sentence should be. I read Dickens and even some of the more modern books, and if Microsoft Word had its way --
• United States
9 Nov 09
If you want to be a published and paid writer, you need to learn the basics of grammar without depending on a grammar checker. It's part of being a professional writer and shows that you are serious about your craft. As long as you are writing you should be trying to improve your knowledge and skills in spelling and grammar. Editors expect to fine-tune your writing not wear themselves out trying to correct pages and pages of mistakes in the basics. You don't have to buy an expensive grammar book. You can get a used or second hand one and teach yourself what you need to know. I'd start with one grammar category, as commas, and study how to use them. Read and learn the rules and then notice when you're reading how professional authors use commas. Also notice when you make a mistake in writing according to some kind of checker and then learn how to do it correctly. It's a life-long study. I hope I don't sound too harsh. I'm just wanting to be helpful but also realistic. I received a degree in journalism and wrote for newspapers and magazines. Before I retired I was an editor and a writing mentor at a university. Journalists have to take a lot of English courses in order to get a degree and professors are very critical of grammatical mistakes. However, those mistakes and corrections help you learn. You don't have to have a degree to get your writing published but it doesn't excuse you from putting in the work to learn grammar. Keep on writing and good luck to you!
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
20 Nov 09
I do have a couple of books, but I want one that gives more then just simple examples. I want one compared to that online dictionary I use. It gives several sentences varying in simplicity and complication so by the time I finish checking it, it gives a better idea of what to write. I am also at a disadvantage because i learn Business rather then Academic English and that has made me less confident. I also want to make sure that the story is perfect before I send it out. It is just that I do not want to depend on the Microsoft Checker all the time since if I get a Mac, I might not be able to afford the Word program right away and might have to use Open Office for the time being.
• Australia
6 Nov 09
Much of my grammar was learnt in school, mostly high school(ages 13 up), which I thought would have been the same for everyone. I know that is was hard for me to grasp some concepts but I just kept using those the most until I could remember them as if they were second nature. If you are wanting to learn more about grammar, the best thing you can do is visit a university or tafe library and see what books they have available on the subject. If that isn't an option for you, then maybe a writing mentor would be of help. Not sure where'd you'd find one, but their online mentors who are more than willing to help. They are usually university students who are looking to improve their people skills while helping others to write assignments. I don't know what site you were submitting an article to, but grammar is one thing most sites aren't overly fussy over. If they are requiring the article for a specific person, then it is edited anyway before it is published. If you were submitting to helium, then there is no way it was rejected for incorrect grammar, that's not how the site works. As far as your far sightedness goes, if you have a scroll button on your mouse, that is easily fixed. Hold down the contol (Ctrl) key on your keyboard, and move the scroll button on the mouse in order to get the text size that better suits your needs. Or, using the view option in your web browser toolbar, you should be able to zoom in to allow pages to get bigger. If using firefox (as I am), then ctrl++ will increase the size of the text and ctrl+- will decrease the size of the page. I would also like to point out that J.K. Rowling had very little experience when it came to writing, especially grammar, and yet she is one of the most successful authors of recent years. It isn't how you write that counts, but what you write, and your style.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
6 Nov 09
I thought that Rowlings was an English teacher and that would be like someone who is a journalist, they know about writing. It as not Helium, it was another writing site. I have not written for Helium for a while since they only pay non Americans for page views and I would rather be paid for my writing not for someone who accidentally sees it when they surf. As for Rowlins, was it not that they were more interested in the subject rather than her ability? I am sure that had she not written about a boy wizard and going to wizard school, that she would not have been as popular. When I went on to my how to write sites, the one thing they all agreed on was that if one does not have a popular subject to write on, or a popular story, and especially if one is writing for publication for the first time, they are less forgiving about style and want you to get the grammar correct.
1 person likes this
• United States
9 Nov 09
I don't know about online grammar checkers, but if you want to learn proper grammar I would suggest "The St. Martin's HANDBOOK."
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