Should he pay?
By p1kef1sh
@p1kef1sh (45681)
September 4, 2010 6:26am CST
The Pope will shortly pay an official State visit to the UK. Whilst he is here the costs of his visit will be met by the British Government (i.e. the taxpayer) and the costs of the three Masses that he will officiate at are to be paid by the Roman Catholic Church. There have been many objections to the Pope's visit, chiefly related to the Roman Catholic church's cover up of child abuse scandals and of course the fact that the UK is a very secular society now where the influence of religions is strong, but the meaning has passed many by and few attend church. Also of course the Roman Catholic Church is in a minority here since the the English Reformation almost 500 years ago. Protestantism is the dominant christian force here now. If the Pope were to visit your country would you be happy for the Government to meet the costs of his visit?
8 people like this
25 responses
@maygodblessu44 (7336)
• India
8 Sep 10
Hello my friend p1kef1sh Ji,
So nice of you for such discussion. recently in my country tehre was a big news that Judges did shopping with iPublic money, my now question is why any celebratory should not pay for all expenses incurred by its own organisation. In this case Pope would spread message of his pleasure, whuich organisation belongs to, so all expenses should be born by pope. Why common men's pocket should be drained out. i am sure while budgeting at teh beginning of financial year, pope visit might have not been taken care-off.
Take care.
May God bless You and have a great time.
2 people like this
@maygodblessu44 (7336)
• India
9 Sep 10
Hello my friend p1kef1sh Ji,
I think, it is an natural concept and facts that all the time, it can never be day-time OR night-time. If tehre is Good, there has to be bad. because oors are there so Rich have to be there. These things are by nature. Everything can never be same. look around and you will see yourself. Take care.
May God bless You and have a great time.
@pumpkinjam (8540)
• United Kingdom
5 Sep 10
I don't think the Pope's visit should be paid for by taxpayer's. In a country where so many are losing jobs and more and more people are coming into poverty instead of out of it, it seems ridiculous for the Government to be spending so much money on one person especially when it looks like a lot of those same taxpayer's will need passes to walk around their own city and, in one part of Birmingham, they won't be able to use one of the scarce open park areas because it will be closed off while the Pope is here. Basically, taxpayer's are paying to have less freedom.
And, I may be wrong but, historically, isn't the Pope actually banned from coming here? He was banned by a King (probably Henry VI but I'm not so good with Monarchs) and that ban was never repealed so technically, he's committing treason anyway.
But no, I totally disagree that taxpayer's should pay for his visit. Someone mentioned that he does the job for "room and board" but the Catholic Church has plenty of money so why aren't they paying for it?
2 people like this
@pumpkinjam (8540)
• United Kingdom
8 Sep 10
Alright then. Well, I'm not saying he shouldn't come at all. But I don't think that the taxpayers in general should pay for it especially as we're meant to be in a recession. A lot of people will feel resentful that so many are losing jobs and tightening belts yet still expected to pay for one man who, to be blunt, doesn't mean a great deal to the majority of us, to visit.
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45681)
•
8 Sep 10
My view is that he should come if it's going to be good for Britain. There is no law stopping the Pope from visiting, it is just that he is not acknowledged as Head of the Church of England - that's the Queen's job. Even if he was banned it wouldn't be treason unless he was to try to overthrow the government or monarchy.
1 person likes this
@nannacroc (4049)
•
4 Sep 10
The catholic church has more than enough money to pay for this visit. This country is in a recession and the poorer people of the country are, as usual, having to take most of the cuts to spending, so where is the money coming from for the popes visit? If the government want to spend our taxes on pointless religious visits they could at least have the decency to ask the nation if they are willing to fund it. We are already funding the olympic stadium, which no-one but the government really want here, they cost too much.
Having said that, I am surprised that certain other, non-christian religions, haven't tried to get this visit banned.
1 person likes this
@nannacroc (4049)
•
8 Sep 10
But there are only grey men to vote for and they all say, 'promise, promise' but they don't say what. I did vote, like a good girl but just against all the little grey men.
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
Let me tell you something. Do you think that no English person will go out to the Olympic Stadium during the Olympic Games? If the stadium will be full, and mostly with Englishmen, then it means that the Olympic Games was organized for them. They are taxpayers too. Of course, nothing what a government or somebody does cannot be good and accepted by everybody, and then the accusations and the mocking appears. It is hard to accept that there are lots of people who are different then you and a huge amount of money to be spent for their benefit. The main idea is: why haven't they give me the fraction of that money or why haven't they give it to the poor people. Because that is not a solution, I say. Nobody hasn't stopped you for being a rich person or a famous one. I am sure if you were a famous, rich person then you would give all your money to others, because the country is in recession and there are lots of poor persons. It is easier said then done. And about asking the nation, what if every decision a government makes they would make a referendum? How much money does a referendum cost? Or that doesn't matter? In our country, and I think that in your country as well the government is chosen by the people. So they have to represent the will of the majority.
@AnnieOakley1 (5596)
• Canada
4 Sep 10
NO WAY! There is already too much religion involved in politics. The church is rich and should pay their own way. Way too rich, in my opinion. They are hypocrites. My father was Roman Catholic, and it was okay to sin, because all you had to do was go and confess and be absolved (forgiven). NOT the right philosophy. I mean, to err is human, to forgive is divine, and all that. But the Roman Catholic Church can pay their own way in my opinion, because the sole reason he IS visiting is political. He is there to garner more votes for his faith. So, when does the gov't EVER pay for 'promotion' of a 'party'. They have to pay it themselves.
1 person likes this
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
You are you, and the Pope is the Pope. If you go to visit a certain country nobody is curious about you. If I go to visit a certain country, nobody is curious about me. If the Pope is visiting a certain country, then lots of people are curious about him, televisions broadcast his visit and so on. And when I say you that many people receive money from the taxpayers(government) although they have never worked and never paid any taxes, what do you say? that is a good thing? Many of those "poor people" in my country are lazy people who do nothing but steal, rob, kill, beg, drink and smoke and receive money from the government. But the Pope is a person who is the leader of the Catholic Church and he deserves respect. He had to learn a lot, to obey some strict rules and to live a life that it is exemplary. Of course that we see many priests that made many stupid things, but we cannot generalize. I am reformed, not Catholic, but I think that the Pope, for being the head of a Church and a state, deserves respect. And I don't know why people do always argue about the Churches? They don't know how hard it is to become a leader of a such important society(or how do you want to call it) like the Catholic Church. If you are invited by someone to visit him/her and he pays the costs of your visit and all your staying, what will you do? If you accept and your neighbors find out and tell you that you are a beggar or why do you tell about your visit because it was a gift, how would you feel? It is easy to judge and make accusations, but it is hard to put yourself in the other ones shoes.
2 people like this
@JudithP (295)
• Canada
4 Sep 10
Excuse me, we are talking about a man who has the command of millions of dollars at his fingertips. No, the taxpayers should not being paying for his trip. If the Catholic population wants him to preach at their church then they should pay for it. I am not a catholic so why should my tax money pay for someone else's faith.
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
I think you are a bit envious. I am not a Catholic, but I can tell you that if the British Government invited the Pope to visit the UK, then I think that they should pay. And why not showing some support for the Catholics, why do we always have to resume everything to us? I don't think that you or your Government has never spent money on things that didn't need or have no use. So I think when a person who reached the top in a hierarchy has to be respected and I am sure that his visit goes to the protocol which is a part in the budget of a Government. So I don't know why is the fuss about this.
1 person likes this
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
I think you are confused, not me. Why should the government spend money on everybody? You know that is not possible. And I have another question: who pays for the person who are in jail to be fed and kept well? not the government? And from who's money? not from the taxpayers'? Do people who are in jail deserve to be spent a dime on them? I don't think so. But maybe you prefer them, instead of a person who has made no major crimes. As I said, they may be priests who make stupid things, and there are priests who see this like a job and not as a vocation. But let me presume that a person who is a pope is a priest by vocation and not just doing a job.
1 person likes this
@parrot2010 (813)
•
4 Sep 10
I'd rather we spent money to keep trouble makers to be locked up than to have them stab me on the way to the bus stop for some cash. They don't deserve it but we have no choice if we want a safer society.
The pope has everything he needs and wants and my goodness he never takes off his glorious, magnificent rich outfit. He thinks he is better than us because he is a leader. If he can hide child abuse who knows what else he is hiding. Ofcourse, it's not all priests who are dirty, anybody can be dirty but this man in particular is very evil. What the pope did may not be major to you but to me and many other people was very major indeed. If there is a god, he won't even get a glimpse of the heaven he's talking about.
1 person likes this
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
9 Sep 10
Absolutely not. If he, or any head of anything in another country, was invited then that would be different. If someone, anyone chooses to come here they should pay for themselves and their entourage of course. If they are invited to a state dinner or something fair enough, we pay, that would be an unavoidable courtesy.
I imagine these VIPs who visit get free accommodation including meals for themselves and their followers, transport and everything else that gets laid on...I think that sucks. If there was a vote, I'd vote that they are made welcome but they pay their own way...just like we have to if we choose to visit other countries.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
5 Sep 10
Hi p1kef1sh, Although I think the Roman Catholic Church should pay the cost, the Pope can get away with it because he is an official head of state. I believe that if the head of any other church or religion visits another country, they would have to pay their expenses and this does seem unfair. I'm sure that some will agree with the taxpayers picking up the tab, the majority will disagree. We must remember that he is the spiritual head of some British taxpayers but so is the Dalai Lama and would the same thing be done for him? Blessings.
1 person likes this
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
4 Sep 10
I guess most people forget that the Pope is not just a leader of the catholic church, but the head of state of Vatican City which can issue passports ect. as a soveriegn state. He is treated with the same dignity as any other head of state. As far as telling him to "Get a job", he has a job. A job he does for no pay. Do you know of any other head of state that works for room and board?
Taxpayers would not mind paying for visits if all such folk worked for room and board...LOL
Shalom~Adoniah
@TheMetallion (1834)
• United States
4 Sep 10
The pope's "room and board" costs more than many families make in a year. Don't even try to present him as living some sort of life of poverty. Nor doubt that if there's something the Pope wants that can be had for money, the money's there for him to have it.
2 people like this
@sparkofinsanity (20471)
• Regina, Saskatchewan
4 Sep 10
The Pope is considered a Head of State, and as such, is accorded the same privileges as any other visiting dignitary, so I really don't see the problem with the host gov't paying for the visit. You said the Catholic Church is paying for the masses he will offer while he is there, and that should tell you something about this Pope...he pays his way where he can. He always has. I'm no longer the rabid Catholic I was raised to be, but that's not to say I don't credit where credit is due, and this particular Pope has brought the Catholic Church a long way in terms of accountability, the abuse scandals aside. My Dad is a high ranking Knight of Columbus, and as such receives 'missives' from Rome from time to time, and the Church has been working overtime to root out and repair the damage by these abusive priests. It just doesn't make the news............and what the news gets, they sensationalize. I agree that the Catholic Church has a long long history of wrongs to right, but then what government doesn't?
1 person likes this
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
6 Sep 10
If England invited him, England should pay. If he invited himself, he should pay. If the Catholic church in England invited him, they should pay. I'd feel the same way if he came to the USA.
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
I am a reformed person, but I don't know why should this be a debate, whether the Vatican or the British Government to pay. If the British Government decided to pay, then so be it. Maybe the Pope was invited, and not decided himself to go to the UK. I don't know why is so much people bothered by the money spent on Church, but if somebody drinks his money or spend it for new clothes every month, because the trend changes, it is okay and is everybody's own business. The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church and he should be respected as every person who leads a major society or a state or whatever you want. If you don't like the Pope, it is your business, but I tell you that every religion, state, group or society needs leaders, because without leaders there would be anarchy and the rule of jungle would reign. And leaders have to be respected, just for the fact that they managed to become leaders. As you say, only few go to church in your country. This is the tendency in our country as well. You say that the influence of religions is strong, but how to find out and exercise your religion, if not in the Church and congregation? If you are a fan of a sport team you follow your team whether on television or go to stadium, if you can. You buy many jerseys and other things that remind you of your team and pay a lot more then for regular t-shorts or things used as souvenir. And the majority of people don't care. They say that they are fans and they have to show it. In fact, they are making that particular team richer and richer. I hope you have understood my point.
@sparkofinsanity (20471)
• Regina, Saskatchewan
4 Sep 10
I understand your point very well rappeter and I think you deserve Best Response! Well reasoned and well said!
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
5 Sep 10
Easy to talk, hard to do, hair of the dog. I would like to see you if you were in a leading position what would you do, and every little thing, like an official visit to be contested and mocked. How would you handle this situation? If you have no values, then it is your problem, and your sentence: Off with their heads! qualifies you. You are envious that you are a common person and the queen and the pope aren't. Instead of being so envious, try to reach the peak. It will do much more good, believe me.
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
6 Sep 10
Why is the catholic religion so disgraced? I am not Catholic, but I don't hate or have something against other religions that worship the same God as we. They interpret the Bible different then us, but it is okay. Of course people don't like churches because they have to pay a tax to belong to a certain church, but they don't think about the fact that the church, the parsonage and other buildings have to be maintained, the employees have to be paid, and other activities have to be financed because everything costs money. It is up to everybody if he wants to be a part of a religion and congregation, but if he is, then he has to pay his tax every year. In our church the tax for a person who is between 25-80 years is about 12 euros or 17 dollars for a whole year. I don't think that is too much. Many think that church should be free, but the problem is that churches don't get anything for free, the money has to be gained from somewhere. As I said, it is up to everybody if he pays or not, but if he doesn't pay do not have any claim from the church, because it wouldn't be far towards those who regularly pay.
@parrot2010 (813)
•
4 Sep 10
I do not like the pope and therefore would not want money spent on him. I'd rather the money was BURNT.
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
I have a question: Do you spend money on your favorite star? When he comes to your city to perform(no matter what, singing, playing sports or other entertainment) do you go and pay the entering price no matter what the cost it is? please respond
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
Okay, if this is the case, then fine. But you cannot be so selfish to deny the right of many taxpayers who maybe are Catholics, maybe not, to see a personality like the pope in their land. Maybe the government spends money on things that you may like, and others don't. This is how it is, we cannot please everybody. And by the way, do you go voting when elections are?
@parrot2010 (813)
•
4 Sep 10
No not always. If I feel the price is too much I will not go to see them. I have only ever seen one person anyway it's not something I do.
@dragon54u (31636)
• United States
4 Sep 10
I'm not happy with governments paying the expenses of any visiting dignitary.
I heard an interesting observation years ago: if the Pope is so confident of the afterlife, why does he travel with bodyguards and ride in a bullet-proof car? 
@p1kef1sh (45681)
•
8 Sep 10
I ask myself "what's in it for the UK by his visiting?" I work for the Anglican church (despite being personally agnostic) and do believe that the church (all churches) should take a leadership role in society. You can't have as big a fan club as Jesus has and not have a moral and social responsibility to them and their homelands.
1 person likes this
@rappeter13 (8608)
• Romania
4 Sep 10
Everybody can say many things, especially envy makes people to mock others. They are envious that somebody has more and they try to express this envy and frustration with mocking others. Of course the Pope is confident in what is he preaching about, but what would you say if every time the Pope shows up in public he would be attacked? I am not Catholic, but I think those people who are leaders of some group, church, state or any other gathering( or how do you want to call it) needs respect and protection. The easiest thing to do is to mock somebody and ask silly questions. If you cannot reach the top, at least respect those who have reached it. You don't have to admire them, and especially you don't have to idolize them, but you have to respect him. With these observations you just qualify yourself and the envy and frustration which is in you comes to the surface.
@redhotpogo (4401)
• United States
5 Sep 10
The government should pay. The hosting country should always pay. It's just common courtesy. The people may not like him going there, but the government wants him there. Or they could tell him not to come. They want him there, and they are going to pay for it.
@aerous (13434)
• Philippines
7 Sep 10
I think you misunderstood in what they called pay visit. This is not material thing or a cost a dime I think...because that person visited a country did not pay any cent but they called it pay tribute to the pope...this is a kind of respect
have a great day!
@p3ks626 (6538)
• Philippines
5 Sep 10
I think it depends on the kind of relationship that the government has and the pope. I think there would be some countries who would be willing to pay for the pope. The Philippines is a Christian country and there are so many catholics here so I guess they are going to pay for his visit.
