Do you agree that everyone should be made to show their face in public?

@owlwings (41487)
Cambridge, England
November 18, 2006 5:28am CST
The Dutch government are proposing a law which forbids people to cover their face in public. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20061118.BURKA18/TPStory/TPInternational/Europe/
3 people like this
11 responses
@nannacroc (4049)
18 Nov 06
I do agree with this. Our culture is such that if only the eyes are showing then the person is up to no good. In Britain there are people moaning about teenagers wearing hooded tops but others are allowed to cover their whole face. Surely that is having double standards. I may be more tolerant if the veil worn by Muslim women was part of the religion but from what I have read it is a sign of oppression by the men. It stems from the belief that a women was her fathers property until she was married and her husband property after. So before marriage the father was the only one to see her face and after marriage it was her husband. I find a group of people who have their faces covered more frightening than teenagers in hoodies.
2 people like this
@owlwings (41487)
• Cambridge, England
22 Nov 06
Thank you for your comment. Personally, I find teenagers in hoodies more threatening than Muslim women. I find the burka and niqab quite acceptable because I understand the reason for wearing them. In teenage culture, however, the hidden face is not a question of modesty (unless you can call not wanting to be identified a kind of modesty!)
• United Kingdom
23 Nov 06
If you see a teenager with a hoodie, you can tell from his/her facial expression whether or not you should be concerned. I think that's probably part of nannacroc's reasoning. We gather people's emotions and incentives from mainly facial expression and you can not have that if somoeone has their face covered completely. There is also the matter of when they are talking. I can not understand someone whose mouth is covered because their voice is muffled and I can't hear them properly. If a teen in a hoodie shouts abuse at you, you know exactly what they are saying! (But even that is a generalisation, and a wrong one at that. I know plenty of people who wear hoodies, caps, motorbike helmets, etc. and they are all perfectly nice people.
@estherlou (5017)
• United States
18 Dec 06
I went to the article link to read the article and was asked to pay for the article before i could read it. I didn't want to pay $4.95 just to read an article. Anyway...can't answer this question, because I need to read about the context of the law...why they are proposing it, and more details, such as are there muslims living there?
@owlwings (41487)
• Cambridge, England
19 Dec 06
I am sorry that you were asked to pay. I am sure that, when I posted this discussion, the article was free. It's possible that they put up an article for a few days and then charge for it.
1 person likes this
18 Nov 06
I think that the country has every right to request this and if people want to live in the country they must live by the rules. I would be a lot happier if everyone showed their face and I think it's a disgrace that the female teacher in the news lately thought she had a right to cover hers. It would be intimidating to children in my opinion as well as them not being able to hear her. As far as being in public is concerned, I would feel a lot safer if I could see who was behind the veil.
2 people like this
@owlwings (41487)
• Cambridge, England
22 Nov 06
Thank you for your comment. I'm sorry that you feel threatened by dress customs which derive from modesty. I think it depends very much on who is covering their face. Am I being sexist, I wonder, if I say I would feel less threatened by a woman who covers her face than by a man? Communication is a different matter. If someone has difficulty is understanding a person, it is not rude to tell them so politely and to expect them to adjust in some way (either by speaking more clearly or by removing the veil). The problem is that a number of people want to make a political issue out of their supposed right to do as they please. I see that as the wrong-doing rather than the act of wearing or not wearing a veil.
@crofter9 (150)
18 Nov 06
I'm very much undecided about this subject, I know that for relegious purposes it has become a bit of a political hot potato. What gets to me is the double standards it has created. You have to remove crash helmets before entering a bank for security reasons, many shops also ask the youngsters to remove hoods. So to completely cover your face and yet still want to be accepted into a society that has for years encourage us to show our faces seems to be a contradiction. I think most people are very wary as we now have "big brother" watching our every move with security cameras and this whole group of people want to hide. As I said I'm split on this one. I don't want them to be forced to remove the veil but I'm not honestly sure it is part of the religion and discusions I've listened to on this debate even have people of the Muslim faith disagreeing.
@owlwings (41487)
• Cambridge, England
22 Nov 06
I too, find it difficult to decide. There are people who definitely pose a threat by covering their heads/faces but I would never think of a Muslim woman in that way!
@crofter9 (150)
23 Nov 06
Something that was mentioned on the radio the other day, and I do find quite thought provoking. How do you even know when all you can see is the eyes if you are looking at a male or female and if they are genuinely Muslim.
2 people like this
• United Kingdom
23 Nov 06
That's part of the problem I have. I know people who wear "hoodies" are often associated with crime and this is why people have a problem with them and not veils. However, normally if someone is wearing a hoodie or a baseball cap, or most kinds of head covering, it is polite to take it off when inside and people tend to become suspicious if it is not taken off. My argument with this is that if a person wears a cap or a hood, you can still see their face but if someone covers their face then, as you say, you can not tell sometimes if they are even male or female, let alone anything else. Wearing the veil for a Muslim isn't religious. There is something in the Quran about modest dress which some people take to mean covering everything. Only a very small minority of Muslims actually wear the full cover and most of them here in Britain at least, are young British born Muslims who are only doing it for the same reasons as kids who wear hoodies, ie. as a form of rebellion and "individuality". As I think has been said somewhere, in most civilised Western countries, if your face is completely covered, it shows hostility, whether deliberate or not.
1 person likes this
@CrashO (698)
• Romania
18 Nov 06
its absurd!!! anyone should be able to do everything he wants to only if it isn't something bad, we are in 2006 huh!!! some religions has this thing not showing their face to the public and its interesting and it should be respected if the people wants that!!
1 person likes this
@owlwings (41487)
• Cambridge, England
22 Nov 06
I agree that people should have a right to wear what they want provided that it doesn't offend or threaten someone else. We have laws already which govern dress (or the lack of it) in public. If you were to go to certain Muslim countries you would be advised to cover your arms, although I believe they rarely arrest visitors for what they consider unseemly display of flesh. If there should be a law forbidding people to cover their faces, should I be allowed to wear a beard?
@ciotog17 (54)
• United States
18 Nov 06
I think this law is discriminatory against Muslim women who wish to wear the burqa or the veil. Christians who travel to Muslim countries aren't required by law to wear Muslim dress. Passing such a law in the Netherlands will only make it much easier to pass a retaliatory law in say Indonesia or Nigeria. The Dutch need to get over their xenophobia, same for everyone else.
1 person likes this
@owlwings (41487)
• Cambridge, England
19 Nov 06
Since there are (it says) maybe 100 women in Holland who choose to cover their faces, it seems that the proposed law is not intended to be anti-Muslim. I think it's more in response to the increased need for security and the use of video security.
@magikrose (5423)
• United States
18 Dec 06
I dont think any one should be forced to do anything they dont want to do in any way. It is sad that a government feels its need to force people to walk arround with there faces uncovered. So then what are you saposed to do when it gets cold and wind in blowing in your face? Are you just saposed to stand there and take it or do you cover your face from the wind to protect your face.
1 person likes this
@killailla (1301)
• Canada
23 Nov 06
nope this is absolutly ridiculous, i went to Gronigen in May 2006, this is a heavily muslim populate area, where the women cover their faces, this is absolutly ridiculous, the dutch girls can sit at the cafe showing there hooters in low cut shirts but morrocan women in holland can not cover there faces, thats so absurd
@killailla (1301)
• Canada
23 Nov 06
by the way as a muslim who sometimes wears a hijab (not often ) i find these extremly offensive
@caribe (2465)
• United States
19 Dec 06
Now, that is really interesting. I am not sure what I think. I can see both sides of this issue. I understand them wanting the faces to not be covered for security reasons and on the other hand there are people that cover their faces for religious and cultural reasons. I would have to mull it over for a while before I could form an opinion on this. It is something to think about.
@masigho (976)
• Indonesia
18 Dec 06
I don't agree that.
• Pakistan
17 Dec 06
this is stupid...no one has a rightto impose their rules over any human being who wishes to practice his own religion..it doesnt harm any1...