Should Churches be TAXED????

Accounting firms are great. Several were named in the downfall of some large corporations where people lost their retirement savings. So a corporation goes to their accountant. The accountant says: We can't be cooking the books. The corporation says: if you won't do it, we will take our business elsewhere. The accountant asks: How well do you want them done? I do know a pastor who got a new luxury car last year and this year an all expenses paid vacation this year. There are many evangelists, probably some of your favorite ones, living very high. One day the local TV station did a story of all the pastors living in million dollar houses. You would be surprised. Oh, one poor pastor's house was only 850,000. I must count him in with that bunch. Of course, there are good churches out there. One can never say everyone is the same. Church is a very big business.

You still are thinking that the minister has to live poor in order to think well of him, and give all or most of the money he gets from preaching to the poor. I am sure that he would make sacrifices. For instance, the manse might not have a big screen 3d Tv, and they might not have gold plated faucets while the rest of the neighbourhood would. The minister would go to places where the gospel needs to be preached in foreign countries, not to the Cayman Islands. They would not go and see wordily movies or buy worldly movies, and be careful when getting dvd that they are out lifting. And of course the music. So whereas you might hear rap blaring from the other houses, you would hear classical and sacred music coming from the minister's house. Also how would it look if he lived in a poorer house then the rest of the neighbourhood? It would mean that the congregation did not value him and thought he was beneath them. Surely in being in a wealthy neighbourhood, they would not up his house to look like a castle when the rest of theirs look like mansions. In poorer and middle class, the congregation would give him a little better house then theirs, because well that is where visiting clergy stay, they have more guests over, have to have a book study, and a private study for him to prepare the sermons, and of course, his wife is expected to entertain and often hold the tea socials, etc. Besides the job of the pastor is to preach the gospel, not to give money to the poor. If he has a fancy house like everyone one, then the congregation has no problem with him living to the same standards as they do. It is also what is inside that counts. I am sure in wealthy congregations, if it were of our church, most everyone would have a piano or an organ, and that would come first before a big screen Tv. And most of the money would go for kitchen equipment and for books. And instead of heaving four cars for each person, it would probably be one car for each adult and the one used most would be the van.

Wealth does not equate evil unless it prevents you from doing God's work. I can't go along with the pastor living in a mansion simply because it fits in the neighborhood. The pastor could be an example to the community instead of lavish in the riches.

0ops, my last line should read, Should rich Church organisations such as the Roman Church organisation be taxed? Probably yes all the best urban

OK. Tax the rich churches and leave the poor churches alone. Sounds good to me.

How do you determine which church is rich and which is poor? What about a church that's saving money for some expensive project (like a new building or major renovations - perhaps a homeless shelter or something rather than it's place of worship) it's planning to do?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Perhaps the issue isn't building a building. It's building a lavish building. Yes, if money wasn't wasted, there would be not problem feeding people with the exception of politics.

bird123, what's a "lavish" building? Do you really want churches to be concrete boxes like 1960's office towers or warehouses? A good building can be a landmark, last for centuries and be nice to be inside. Just being as utilitarian as possible gets boring. When you consider the price of the land and the cost of building something that will serve the function, building something that is also nice doesn't have to add that much to the overall cost.

I can't argue with so much of the money is wasted but at least the government is trying. Yes, there are good churches out there as well. If they were to tax churches, they all must get taxed the same. Can't have special treatment. It wouldn't be fair.

Amen how much do you wanna bet if they charge churches tax's they so 't charge Muslim church's the church's of America did not throw us in debt sondon't take it out on them

The government has done alot of unfair stuff so it wouldn't surprise me

Yes you are right. Church must do charitable works and as far as I know there's a rule that separates the church and state. Nowadays churches are not fulfilling their charitable duties besides religion like catholic, 700 club and other religious groups are using the name of God to accumulate wealth and using the funds for their selfish needs. According to world bank 5 years ago that Catholic church is top 1 richest organization in the world but they don't use the funds to help the needy people besides they also sell indulgences to their members just to accumulate more wealth. If I were the pope right now I will use all of the funds to help the poor countries like africa, and other countries under the 3rd world.

stary1 I think you are right government should get out of that business. On the other hand, the way things are now,no one else, including churches, will do the job. It is wonderful there are people in this world that do care. They always speak for God. Voracious. Recently, much has come out on the catholic church. If I were catholic I would protest the using of money to cover up child molesting priests. How can anyone think that was justified?? I also heard that when popes are buried that it's sealed or lined with gold. Maybe you know something about that. Indeed, there are much better places to use money. Just a little money can make a big difference in poor countries. I guess it's hard for some to use the money for God's work. They value material things too much.

Does the Catholic church (or any other) still sell indulgences? I thought this stupidity stopped centuries ago, it was one of thing that turned Martin Luther against the Catholic church.

A church is supposed to speak for God. I do not understand how so many can sit back and allow the corruption. There is no doubt change is needed.

You expect a C.E.O. a rock star or a politician (particularly a high ranking one) to show up in a good car. Why make an exception for a bishop? There are also security concerns and other practical considerations. If the priest's car is always breaking down, it makes him or her less effective at their job. Maybe they need to carry other people or things. Some religious leaders have families (obviously not Catholic ones, usually). Some might be using their vehicles to carry sports equipment, food donations etc. if they're the "hands on" type.

Yes I agree with you because here in our country priest accepts money came from any forms of gamble under the table, besides they use the church money to buy those such luxurious cars for their personal use. What I hate most is the archbishop himself was involved in this kind of anomaly.

Bland?? Should we provide entertainment???? That will attract people. Sure churches have to pay bills and take in money, however a church's aim should not be to make money. Shouldn't God come first??? As for research, I do get around pretty good. I haven't been to every church but I've seen my share. I have even run into a few bragging pastors in my time. Of course, I have a close friend who is a pastor that gets new cars and vacations paid for most years. There was even talk of getting a plane. That hasn't happened yet. They are expensive. Don't get me wrong. I have also seen churches that would make God proud how they help people and their communities. I could never believe in their beliefs but these people speak of God through their actions. They are teaching such wonderful lessons to many. Like everything in life, diversity abounds, so do the lessons sent to teach.

Yes, it seems a lot of churches are more business than anything else.

bird, I think you can get into arguments about the definition of "business". Some business practices are just plain sensible and it would be foolish for a church to ignore them. Some get a bit more questionable or don't fit well with the function of a church. For example, I think if you do market research and try to make the church more in keeping with what people say they want, you could well end up with something bland that doesn't attract converts or keep it's old members. How much research have you done on church finances?

God is never pleased when anyone values physical things over spiritual things. It seems too many churches are doing just that. Perhaps you should reconsider belonging to a church. Sounds like they need someone just like you to shine the light on the truth. Of course, they would probably try to run you off but not before you made the point. Someone might even listen. Teach them even if it takes some drama. God would be very pleased. Remember God loves it when truth stares everyone in the face. It is God's work to place it out there for everyone to see. Be a part of that.

blue, I suspect that you're generalizing at best. How much research have you put into this? Then I don't know what country you live in.

Hey, I knew someone out there could come up with a plan! Now if we could just get them to put you in charge. Of course, you would have to be careful. There would be a lot of church folks after you!!

Starsailover, do you trust the government and bureaucrats to decide what projects help the public and reduce the taxes accordingly? How much tax will go to paying bureaucrats (probably with little or no accountability) to access churches and make such decisions?

I guess I've never seen people brought up in front of everyone to give. I bet that would be embarassing especially if your funds came up a bit short. You are right. Clearly this is not God's work. Maybe we should put them on TV when it's time for them to pay those taxes.

Oh. so the Christians aren't living up to their holy book. Hmmm?? They should volunteer to pay taxes if they were to do the right thing. Very good, you really pulled the rabbit out of the hat on that one. I enjoyed it. This is kind of an old discussion. It would have been better to have come out 1 month ago thereby lots of people would have read it. Nonetheless. great comment! Who knows maybe a few will stop back and be surprised.

There are some churches doing a Great job helping others. They should not be taxed. There are more churches than you realize sitting on a fortune as we speak. THey need to be taxed if they aren't going to help.

Taxing does carry problems. I vote for a national sales tax. No paper work and can't avoid it.

How does the government determine which churches are doing a great job and which are just accumulating wealth for taxation purposes? I'm sure there are some that try to do a good job but screw up. What about churches (or other religious groups) that are using their money to support questionable causes (pro-life, pro-choice, Palestinians, Israel, anything the government doesn't like)?

You make lots of good points. USA does have a good safety net. If I had to be poor the USA is where I would want to be. I hear even now poor can get a free cell phone with some free minutes. You would think food and shelter would be all that was necessary.

I'm glad I could poin out a few flaws in the so called " under privileged " getting as much help as they do

Oh, I didn't even consider money made on tapes, dvd's, and books. I bet they aren't all being sold at cost. You are right that the small community churches that are doing an outstanding job should never be taxed. Just like every tax return, they could have exemptions for those doing the job. Double the tax on those who don't.

As for as the books, I definitely believe that it belongs the who ever wrote it and it shouldn't interfere with taxes and etc. because it is theirs. It's just so much going on these days, but overall I believe the good and dedicated church leaders deserve it. Great topic by the way!

Yes, THat's how I see it too.

How little you really understand God and what is going on in this world. You are right. If God wants them alive, He will find a way to feed them. Perhaps my point is that God is Spiritual just like we are in our true natures. If churches are supposed to speak for God, the physical priorities of self wealth do not fit the bill. In spirituality,it is important to spread that. Helping the poor, many whose spirits are down, need help. Giving, helping, love and kindness defines who we are and who we choose to be. To help others, helps ourself. It is a good thing. We are here but to serve. Yes, God could make this world a utopia but that would defeat the real purpose of this world. Yes, many adversities are meant to be. You could not stop them if you tried. Still, it is our choice on what we choose in life. Mansions or helping people, Which has more value people or money??

Yes, our actions do return to teach us what our actions really mean. This will happen for everyone. That's a good reason to do good deeds if one needs a reason at all.