The only scientifically significant poll taken of the Occupy Movement says a lot

@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
October 19, 2011 6:25pm CST
With all the talk about what the Occupy movement is really all about, and where the rank and file participants fall on specific issues, there has only been one scientifically significant poll taken... and it's pretty telling. One of the things I though was pretty interesting was, contrary to their claims (and right wing stereotyping) the vast majority of them are employed. 98% are all for using civil disobedience to get their point across, but most (nearly 2/3) stop short of advocating violence against other people. Most of them supported Obama in the 2008 election, but only 48% of them say they would vote for him again. 1/4 say they won't vote at all. 65% say that government has a moral responsibility to guarantee all citizens access to affordable health care, a college education, and a secure retirement—no matter the cost. What most of the Occupiers polled agree on is an extreme progressive anti capitalist agenda where taxes should be raised on the rich, but no one else. I admit I was pleasantly surprised by some of the findings here. It turns out they aren't just shills for Obama, in fact, as the pollster points out, it may not even be in Obama's (or the DNCs) best interest to ride on their coattails. I was also glad to learn that most are against violence to back their cause. It does reinforce what I thought of them as far as class warfare, anti capitalist and how selective they are in their indignation. While they call for holding "the rich" responsible for the problems in our nation, they aren't willing to hold the politicians who threw money (and threats) at the bankers and other rich people. It's the rich they hate, and want punished. Nothing more.
2 people like this
6 responses
• Australia
20 Oct 11
OWS has many fellow travellers in other parts of the world, with just some minor differences based on local issues. I am a supporter, and from my understanding I would point out that: We do not hate the rich, just the greedy who will use anything to increase profits, including criminal activities like bribery and fraud. We are not anti-Capitalist or anti-profit, but we are against the supercharged economic rationalism behind a lot of corporate globalised Capitalism which makes profit infinitely more important than people. The rescue packages we see as necessary, not for the sake of the banks but for the sake of the population who would have suffered if the banks went down. Punishment is desired only for those guilty of criminal activity, and let's face it, crime and greed are same cell twins. Lash
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@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
20 Oct 11
While I'll accept your explanation as your own opinions, and your opinion of the Occupy movement, the facts and the Manifesto contradict you. The manifesto never separates the rich from the rich from those who may have committed crimes when calling for punishment. They simply want to punish the rich. One of the few things found to be pretty much universal in the majority of the Occupy participants IS an anti capitalist, anti rich mentality. I also notice that there are few to no mentions of politicians who committed the same "crimes" as "the rich". Which makes me wonder why they are so selective. But as I said, there were things found in the poll that pleasantly surprised me.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
21 Nov 11
I must say I don't really consider interviews with 200 protesters at one location necessarily representative of the entire movement. Also, remember, the editorial section off the Wall Street Journal is quite conservative. Annie
• United States
20 Oct 11
You appear to be quoting Doug Schoen's poll without attribution. You might be interested in this article: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/10/18/347165/breaking-doug-schoen-grossly-misrepresents-his-own-poll-results-to-smear-occupy-wall-street/ Schoen also writes that “[s]ixty-five percent say that government has a moral responsibility to guarantee all citizens access to affordable health care, a college education, and a secure retirement—no matter the cost.” But the actual question makes no mention of costs.
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@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
20 Oct 11
Yes, apologies for not including the link. Here's the one I read, but it's probably not much different than yours. I learned a lot about the OWS movement from it, both pro and con. Some of it I was pleasantly surprised about. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html
• Australia
21 Oct 11
That particular item on their agenda is an example of different local issues. Australia already has all those things, although economic globalisation and its supporters are trying desperately to dismantle this sytem and put in something like what you have in America, Obama's efforts on health care notwithstanding. That would probably bring about mass civil disobedience here, so hopefully it will never happen. Lash
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
21 Nov 11
This is another discussion I'm late in getting to! I've tried to avoid most of the posts about the OWS movement because it seemed it would be a waste of time to add my two cents. Most of the OWS bashing discussions were started by die-hard right wing and/or tea party supporters and it seems the two groups are natural "enemies" despite having some common ground if they'd only give each other a chance and look for it. The "poll" you referenced notwithstanding, from what I've learned about the "occupiers" isn't that they "hate" the rich or capitalism but that they're fed up with the massive inequity in our country today. I think many of them likely agree with me that health care isn't something that should be part of a "free market capitalist economy" or that a good education should be something available only to the rich. It's not right that the biggest corporations and their lobbying groups should be able to contribute unlimited amounts of money, some of it anonymously, to political campaigns, in effect "buying" many if not most of our lawmakers. Some of those politicians then proceed to do everything they can to disenfranchise the voters most likely to vote against the interests of these donors. I don't know about you but that's NOT my father's free market capitalism. Annie
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
20 Oct 11
I would like to know which one Occupy was polled as most of them across this nation have many different ideas and they aren't all united completely under one banner like the one that is going on locally has the tax the rich stuff but also callings for ending the Federal Reserve bank. Also many other things the big things are. No Bailouts, End the Wars and Punish Corporate crime. Also it seems that they are more targeting the Financial institutions that did play a huge part in the setting the stage for the collapse of the economy. While it does have a very left leaning slide I would say that some of the ideas are very much on target for what is so very wrong with the system as it is working right now. I am a part of this movement but of course representing the Libertarians who have joined this movement in the hopes that it will cause some changes to the system and well ending the fed would be a libertarian dream come very much true.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
20 Oct 11
If you read the link, that question would have been answered.
• United States
20 Oct 11
You forgot to post it.
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
20 Oct 11
What link?
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
20 Oct 11
My understanding of the american tax system is that the rich do not pay tax at all. This movement is full of people who pay their appropriate tax and who are tired of seeing the country fall apart while the few at the make a profit from it. I do not support cappitalism or communism, both are extreme and neither can produce a good society that benefits all. A good example is the millionare actor who buys a farm for a bit of recreation and then claims a tax exemption as a 'poor' farmer. That is abuse of the system and should not be allowed. The people at the top of the income scale do a lot of things like this that allows them to avoid tax they should rightfully pay. If the wealthy of your country paid a fair tax then your country would not be so broke as it is. It is not just the rich that they dislike but the rich and powerful who use their power to exploit others and benefit themselves. This revolt is one of the middle class who are sick and tired of the greed and I mean greed not wealth. There have always been rich people but they respected their role as people of authority and responsibility and they took care of their workers. The ones who did not follow the creed were dealt with by societal punishment. The same holds true today, if you do not respect your workforce for their work and respect them as human beings then you will not have a good workforce. If you hit your workers too much then one day they will hit back. Remeber the phrase 'I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it any more." That is how many respectable mainstream middle class people feel these days. These are the people who never get worked up about anything, never get angry, always follow the law etc. Well they are angry now and they are likely to remain so.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
20 Oct 11
Your understanding is a little off, but with all the lies and crap perpetuated by the incompetent press and Obama, I can understand. The fact is, the top 1% pay 40% of the tax burden, and 41% of American households pay not taxes at all. In fact, most of the working poor actually get more back in their "Tax return" than they paid in the first place. As for the rich buying up property but paying no taxes, that's only partially true. Everyone (regardless of income level) pays sales tax on property they buy for personal use. They also pay property taxes to the local governments. Now, if they buy the property for business purposes, then they can deduct what they paid for the property as a business expense. However, they are still assessed property taxes. The only way you can buy property and not pay any taxes on it, is if it is bought in the name of a legally registered charity or bought for religious use. I hope that clears up a few things.
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@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
21 Oct 11
Oh, yes, the farm subsidy program is wildly abused. Most of it doesn't even go to people who own farms anymore. Farmers are allowed to sell the rights for a lump some, so investors buy up the rights pretty quickly.
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
21 Oct 11
I was not referring to property tax or sales tax which everyone pays when they buy property. I was talking about a millionare actor claiming tax breaks for poor farmers on his income because he owns a farm. That is an abuse of any tax system. He is not and never will be a poor farmer. He is an actor who just happens to own a farm. In my view this is cheating. We had them in Australia as well. Business men who lived and worked in the city buying a farm and then using it to write off lots of tax on their city income. It might be legal but it should not be. It is a loophole in the tax system that rich people are able to exploit because they have the money to do it and they do it just to cut back the tax they pay while getting richer. As for the American tax system I only know what I hear in the media as I have never examined your tax law. I understand that corporations pay very little tax as well as the ultr wealthy. Maybe they all use tax breaks that allow them to avoid paying tax on vasts amount of their wealth. If that is the case it explains why the country is going down the tube.
@dragon54u (31633)
• United States
20 Oct 11
Those are some interesting results. I would like to know their education level, although education is no indication of intelligence. I don't know why but I am shocked by how many people think the government has an endless supply of money that magically appears out of nowhere. I'm also surprised how ill read these people are, how ignorant they are of how the wealthy spend their money. Most of those people have probably been the beneficiaries or know someone who has benefited from the charities and good works those rich people have invested in. If not for rich people they would not have those SmartPhones, iPads and other technology they are using to further their cause.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
21 Oct 11
It would be interesting to see what their college majors are. My son who graduated from college last year and has a job. Many of his friends who majored in Liberal Arts are looking for jobs without much luck. Those with Engineering, math and science degrees are employed.