Pope contradicts himself on doctrinal matter refuting papal infallibiily
By urbandekay
@urbandekay (18278)
December 10, 2011 12:16pm CST
1, The pope claims he is infallible on doctrinal pronouncements
2, The pope make a doctrinal pronouncement supporting slavery
3, The pope makes a doctrinal pronouncement against slavery
4, Since 2 and 3 are contradictory 1 cannot be true
5, Therefore, papal infallibility is false
So, should the pope admit once and for all that papal infallibility is false
all the best urban
2 responses
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
11 Dec 11
It makes sense what you have written, the way you have written it, if that's really all there is to it. I've managed to dodge such a direct question in your other discussions so as not to offend the Catholics among us, but it seems that you do have a point. I think the Pope has a lot of explaining to do either way & that it should be done as soon as possible before yet another discussion topic is generated on this subject. 
I think the Pope is in a very difficult situation. He obviously did not create such a doctrine, but he must work with it. Perhaps he could get around it by saying that it's human to err... but weren't these two different pronoucements made by two different Popes in two different ages? I don't think it's up to the Pope alone to admit that Papal Infallibility is false - the ramifications of which would be unthinkable for him & even more unthinkable for the Catholic Church - but up to those responsible for instituting or removing such a doctrine.
How would you handle such a situation if you were the Pope? I wonder how the Catholics here view this situation? I don't wish his job upon anyone.
I think the Pope is in a very difficult situation. He obviously did not create such a doctrine, but he must work with it. Perhaps he could get around it by saying that it's human to err... but weren't these two different pronoucements made by two different Popes in two different ages? I don't think it's up to the Pope alone to admit that Papal Infallibility is false - the ramifications of which would be unthinkable for him & even more unthinkable for the Catholic Church - but up to those responsible for instituting or removing such a doctrine.
How would you handle such a situation if you were the Pope? I wonder how the Catholics here view this situation? I don't wish his job upon anyone.@urbandekay (18278)
•
11 Dec 11
I wouldn't accept the position and, perhaps controversially, I am nut sure that Jesus or the apostles would either
all the best urban
@urbandekay (18278)
•
11 Dec 11
But if by some misfortune I were to find myself in such a position then I would
1. Try and find some good end for the money,
2. Seek full communion with the Orthodox Church, in the disputes, apart from the matter of icons, the Orthodox Church held the better beliefs
3. Faced with such evidence, I would have to admit to myself that papal infallibility was false and having admitted it to myself I would hope I would have the integrity and courage to admit it publicly. Of course there would be consequences and, I dare say, distress to many but, the truth may hurt but slime suffocates!
4. Repeal the prohibition on priest's marrying
5. Begin a thorough and critical examination of the Roman Churches teachings
6. Apologise for the mistakes
all the best urban
@veganbliss (3895)
• Adelaide, Australia
11 Dec 11
Bravo! That's some very courageous stuff there Urban & I would endeavour to do likewise myself. I'm not sure what action(s) the Pope or even the Catholic Church has undertaken on the matter. That's why I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, though I'm not sure if such a position is very helpful. I wonder what the Pope is thinking on the matter & if indeed he can even sleep at night knowing about all this. I agree that Jesus & his disciples wouldn't accept such a position, which is what we should be doing more of & asking ourselves what Jesus would do.
@vandana7 (102698)
• India
11 Dec 11
It is about misquoting, and using leading questions. Not everybody is equipped to handle those questions urban. That is why lawyers train their clients and witnesses before they are sent to the witness box. We get ample time to think over our answers here. Therefore, we can give a rational reply. But when asked about issues at times there can be incoherence between what is uttered and what is being thought. This increases with age. I am not saying that Pope is infallible. I am only saying that there is more to it than meets the eye.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
11 Dec 11
Part of the ministry of Jesus was a move away from the legalistic interpretation of the law, emphasising the spirit rather than the letter of it, indeed Jesus himself broke the law. It is in that spirit and that spirit alone that progress can be made in such matters.
all the best urban
@vandana7 (102698)
• India
11 Dec 11
Urban - as a grown up - I no longer believe in absolute rights and absolute wrongs - legal or moral. Take for example a woman who had to feed her child and had no monies even when she tries to beg or borrow. If she compromises on moral values, it is understandable. Likewise, if a person steals from office cash to save the life of parent, it is again not absolutely wrong, is it? "There are exceptions to every rule, including this one." I dont know who wrote it, but I have to say there is a lot of truth in that saying.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
11 Dec 11
Aye, we have a number of sayings to that effect.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.
The law locks up the man or woman
Who steals the goose from off the common,
But leaves the greater villain loose
Who steals the common from the goose.
all the best urban
