Anyone care to debate how evil the Bush family is with me? Visit this link first

I couldn't agree more with every point you made. I would love to see Putin call Bush's hand and tell him enough is enough. Inform Bush that if he continues to consider putting missile shields up in the Czech Republic and Poland, Russia will point their missiles at us and Canada. This of course would only be a deterrent to stop Iran and North Korea from launching attacks. If that sounds stupid is because it is. Bush used that exact moronic logic. You're right. This Texas tumbleweed has undone so many good relationships that we've worked so hard to develop. What half wit dubbau doesn't understand is, a nation that stand alone doesn't stand long. ‹(°¿°)›

That is indeed the problem. We have the wonderful right to elect who we want as leaders and most of us don't educate ourselves enough about the choices. No matter who we vote in, unless they are morally strong, they are almost always corrupted by money and power.

Indeed. Everything on that page is true and documented. You're correct, their family is like the monarchy tyrants. Many wealthy families with a long lineage aren't this way but many are just like the Bush's. They are, what we call here in the U.S., a family of old money. That means they have many connections in high places and not always with the nicest people. The reason so much of their past has been revealed is because they are the type of family who'll admit to their wrong doing and will thumb their nose at you. They don't care what, we, the commoners think. We are an annoyance to them. No more, no less. This is why president Bush can get away with all the bad decisions he makes and still keep smiling. He doesn't care what we think. This is no longer a government for the people by the people. I'm not sure we'll ever get back to that again in my country.

In the case of the Bush's and old money families like their's family trees and ancestry means everything. Philosophies, political views, business strategies and religious beliefs, morals and values are handed down from generation to generation. With little variation. What you're talking about is the average family. There is less structure and dare I say expectations. Only in the sense that you go to college, get a career, raise a family and try to be happy. There are many variations of this type of family. Take a look around at who are known as the blue bloods. Each generation has it's destiny already laid out for them. With little chance of straying. The British Royals are the prime example of this but they're not exclusive. It doesn't matter what nation you live in. If you have the family provenance and money you rarely fall far from the tree. This has been going on since the beginning of man. I'm not saying all families are based on deceit, lies and corruption but in the Bush's case it's quite prevalent. ‹(°¿°)›

Ah, I too prefer the gift of choice. However, for the super wealthy you are expected to toe the line. Especially if you eventually want a share of the pie. Think of any family that is super wealthy and find out if any of their offspring have flown the coop. From time to time a teen or twenty something may stray briefly but they eventually do what's expected of them. I'm not talking about people like Paris Hilton. She's a lost cause unless there's some extreme intervention. Her sister on the other hand will be the one to take the reigns when there handed to her. I'm talking about those families with provenance (history) and old money and business that goes back generations. These people, like the Bush's, are elitists who don't care if you or I exist at all. These are the kind of people who would buy an entire neighborhood to build a golf course and club for themselves and their elitist friends. It's been done. Not all immensely wealthy people are cut from this stone but I would estimate approximately 85% are and don't have a choice even if they wanted one. Believe me, the rules are entirely different for these people. That's why I mentioned the British Royals. They are the classic role models for this kind of wealth. Again, I'm not saying that all super wealthy people are evil. What I'm saying is that there are few choices for the new generations of these people. ‹(°¿°)›

I just prefer to give people chances. I mean 'cause mostly it IS their choice, regardless how much pressure is on them to do things. Ansd throughout history we could have this thoroughly horrid family, for GENERATIONS, and then one of them would turn around and be nothing like them. I don't think his family made him the way he is, though yes inevitably it probably influenced him a little..maybe gave him some ideas. We're not slaves to our genes...but we're not immune to their influence either. But that doesn't change the fact that we still make choices and we don't have to listen to our family, or ancestors. All I believe his family is evidence of, is how long our world's been going downhill. And I suppose we'll see the results of this downward torrent fairly soon..another age of people getting fed up with people in power and taking extreme measures to fight back (since probably, it'll be the only measures left to them).

I think you used the perfect term for Bush's "term" in office, "capitalizing." That was and and is his primary goal for being what president. Or as NBC's Conan O'Brien called Bush, the most successful retard. Making money, capitalizing, is all he's ever been about. Sticking it to the common man while lining his and his friends pockets with money that was to be spent on the war (fiasco). Instead, a portion of the billions handed out has been funneled back full circle to what I mentioned above. Well hmmmm? Rudy. I liked Rudy when he was mayor of New York, before 9/11. He was a peoples mayor. After 9/11 he became part of the political quagmire known as the Republican party. He no longer thinks for himself. His words belong to the machine and he will say whatever they tell him to say. We can't have another Republican president now. It would devastate our nation. Believe me, it's going to be a messy race for the White House. It's going to be uglier than ever before. Watch.

I have the answer to most political problems that we face today. It's very simple but to progressive to ever happen. The president and vice president should be from opposing parties. This way both have to come to reasonable decisions jointly. It's already done in Congress. Sure there's a lot of arguing and bickering back and forth between the two parties but that's the only way for our system of checks and balances to work. As it is now, whoever rules the White House plays favoritism when it comes to decisions. This wouldn't happen with a duel party White House. ‹(°¿°)›

I agree- I don't think we'll survive another republican President. We need some serious social change in this country, and repubs can't seem to handle that concept.

Your points ring so true to my ears. The people haven't been fairly represented for close to 60 to 70 years. Today it's all about the wealthiest individuals, families and corporations. It's a funny thing that you should mention Rome. Many great civilizations like Rome have been laid to waste and if we continue to alienate our long time international friends we may see the same fate. It's not inconceivable. As I've stated elsewhere. We are still an infant nation. Far too young to be pushing our weight around decade after decade. Nations who are at odds already had a summit of there own about a year ago in Cuba. My fear is that if our next president doesn't do some major damage control quick, it's quite possible an international community led by either Russia or China may step in and give us some harsh ultimatums. This president has undone almost everything our vets current and past have fought for. Not to mention what our founding fathers stood for. ‹(°¿°)›

No doubt about it. Let's just hope that someone or some group with enough power will stand up against the repressive government that doesn't represent us anymore. Fat chance of that happening. ‹(°¿°)›

yes the rhetoric of the founding fathers as you quite rightly say is a whole world away from what is happening today in US government...it is ironic that the US was founded on freedom and opportunity from impoverishment and persecution in Europe and yet today there are whole rafts of society within the US who in effect are disenfranchised from the American ideals....

You're absolutely right. The problem is nobody with a voice who can be heard is brave enough to stand up for those of us who feel this way. I really think people are afraid of Bush and his administration. Afraid that if they speak against Bush, some sort of accident will happen to them. Let's face it, throughout this country's history there has always been individuals and organizations brave enough to step into the spotlight and condemn things that our government has done. Do you see anyone doing it today? No. Oprah and Bono are too concerned about Africa. Which is a lost cause. I'll have another discussion on that unfortunate case some other time. Where's Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Ralph Nader, David Horowitz, the ACLU and so many others. Not to mention these Hollyweird actors who always have something to say. Like I said earlier, I believe people are scared of what might happen to them if they speak out against the dictator a I mean president. It's still almost two years away. This demon can still do a lot of damage. ‹(°¿°)›

Great thoughts nicolec. So true too. See above as well. I have lived in Fluridu for 12 years and am happy to say I was spared the misery you must have dealt with working for the state, ouch. I'm not worried about Jeb becoming president. The nation won't give another Bush a chance after W. Their father was, to put it best, an ok president. That's the only reason Jr. made it. Though I don't toe the line for either party, I will say I'm concerned that the Democrats will fight amongst each other, so much so, that they'll fight their way right out of the race. ‹(°¿°)›

Seriously, don't worry about Jeb. We do have short memories but we are also reminded quite easily as well. W doesn't have anywhere near the sort of following he used to have. His long time supporters, whether they're political or citizen, are shying away from him. They just don't criticize him vocally. The Democrats have a history of fighting amongst themselves, so I hope you're right. The sooner they pull together the better.

I do fear Jeb in the white house. There are a lot of people in the country that believe Geroge W is doing a great job. And American have short memories. He won't or shouldn't go for 2008, but 2012 or 2016, we might see him make an attempt. The democrats will fight it out now. But once the primaries have past, I believe we will unify. I think this country is ready for a change and the includes ridding ourselves of the Republican power.

Yeah, we've all had a bad taste in our mouth for quite some time now. Most of us anyway. There are some Bushbots left but they're not so vocal anymore. Idiots.

Thank you for the link. The site is very extensive and informative. ‹(°¿°)›