Is there any atheistic?

@missak (3311)
Spain
April 15, 2007 12:38pm CST
I'll convert them!! at least I'll give you good arguments
10 people like this
32 responses
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
15 Apr 07
I hope you do get some atheists just so I can see your arguments! I'm awfully curious. I've seen several well-spoken and interesting atheists around here on mylot, so it could be an interesting debate if any choose to bite. (I'm not an atheist myself, I'm a Pagan.)
4 people like this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
15 Apr 07
In ancient times, "pagan" was used to mean both "country-dweller" and "non-Christian". In modern times, the word "Pagan" encompasses a whole group of religions. Among these religions you would find ancient beliefs of many peoples: Egyptions, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Celtic, and many others, as well as newer religions that either mix a lot of old ideas or are entirely their own thing. Most pagan religions are nature-centered, polytheistic (beliving in more than one God) and involve beliefs in a spiritual world and ritual practice. However, these are HUGE sweeping generalizations. My personal "Pagan" religion is Celtic Reconstruction, meaning that I follow a modernly reconstructed version of the religion of the Celts (who most notably lived in the British Isles, but also spread across much of Europe). I believe in many Gods, in personal responsibility for your action as opposed to salvation, and in a spirit world that coexists with our own world. =) Sorry if my explanation ran a little long, but it's a very complicated subject.
6 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
16 Apr 07
WOW don't say you're sorry!!! It is very interesting and I love long answers. I try to learn all I can about any religion, and I try to believe in them all. I have a pretty good collection but I didn't heard before about european religions reconstructed, and this sounds very interesting. I want to know more. I'll research on that, but I also appreciate if you help me go deeper on that. It seems similar to what Tolkien wanted to do, right? I've heard he was inspired by things like that. Very nice post!
4 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
15 Apr 07
Very interesting... what is Pagan? I thought it was any stranger religion for romans.
3 people like this
@rubiana6 (270)
• Brazil
15 Apr 07
ok, i am not an atheist, i believe in god, although i dont know why. There is noe logic reason how somebody can believe in god, but many logic reasons why he shouldnt exist. Maybe you know the book from Bertrand Russel: why i am not a christian. Noone until iknow could find a prove of god or good arguments until today. so if you have one, please let me know.I am really very curious to know.
@Darkwing (21583)
20 May 07
I've read the response you put in that discussion, my friend, and what's more, I don't agree with it. You say you have a way of converting everybody? No go, I'm afraid. You need a far better argument than that, to prove one single superbeing called God, which isn't a name, anyway. In my book, there are many Gods, Goddesses, Icons and Animals worshipped in different religions. Are you going to deny them this right? I am not going to preach, like some, but the World would be a far better place for more religious tolerance... from all quarters of the Globe.
2 people like this
20 May 07
I agree with you darkwing and I am an athiest when it comes to controlled religion. More tolerance is what is definately needed.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
15 Apr 07
there is not a real prouve, just a mind trick that cannot be replied, because anyone has at least one belief (in reality, in truth, in life...) so I use their beliefs as they use religious one to confuse them and make them take it in a new point of view. Check out my answer there in a similar discussion : http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/810779.aspx
1 person likes this
• Thailand
16 Apr 07
If I am an atheist how will you convert me. If I am a well informed atheist I will need some specific proofs. If you can meet these conditions, than you can convert me. My conditions are; http://tinyurl.com/2marhm I will be waiting for your reply.
2 people like this
• Thailand
17 Apr 07
There are exceptions to every rule and all religions are not the same. I am a Buddhist and an atheist. There is no contradiction in this. In the words of the Venerable Dr. W. Rahula; "Man's position, according to Buddhism, is supreme. Man is his own master, and there is no higher power that sits in judgement over his destiny." I love nature as much as anyone. I see incredible beauty in a sunset but that beauty is not diminished because I understand that the colours are produced by the refraction of light caused by dust particles and water vapour in reaction to the angle of the light. The natural beauty in this world dose not require a supernatural explanation when a simple one will do. Buddhism has it own moral code, found in the teachings of the Buddha, which can be summed up by "do no harm." There is no need for a set of rules imposed by a supernatural being.
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
16 Apr 07
Ok, I am a theist who does not base my beliefs in faith, so the discussion with me will be different. Perhaps I don't convince you, but I'll give you things to think about and none has given me a correct refutation for them. I'll post them later.
@missak (3311)
• Spain
17 Apr 07
Ok you're taking the discussion to a higher level, interesting. I already knew about atheistic buddists, and I know what they mean, it is one of the most logical atheisms for me. But you say beauty is not diminished because of its scientific explanation, and I have a lot to ask about that: First, I said you're diminishing some way science, and you didn't answer, so if beauty is related to science, this still doesn't mean this science is not God's hand. how otherwise could it be so coherent? I mean, man can imagine a mechanical system like nature is according to your cold scientific vision, but can he change universal minds so that everyone loves his invention? Second, what is your scientific explanation for the beauty of woman body? Does it also come from water vapour and opctical effects? lol Third, you didn't say your opinion on the religion I found with some scientific "predictions", things tha were discovered mostly at the begining of the 20th century and are still in scientific discussions. Isn't it what you asked for? I have one more question, related to moral code. Cannot your god be some kind of global conciousness, similar to karma (osogbo in the religion I was telling you)? I never said god must have a human form, or even a life form. Some say an energy form, and I would sya it also can be an idea form, all this forms are metaphysic. At least you accpt metaphysics, rigth? Ok, I just mean that moral code is over man, I think. Anyways, nature or science or whatever, is over man too. I think you have to admit my discussion is not like the ones you criticised on your web, I'm seriouly taking into account your arguments. I'll build a list like yours, with the things I would like to be prouved to become atheistic. But for me it is a mind thing, and I think I have already thought all kind of arguments for and against, so it won't be easy. Thanks for your post and your challenge, interesting. But now is your turn to explain your refutation longer and clearer, or should i take this "exceptions to every rule" as a surrender? :)
• United States
17 Apr 07
What would you convert them to? If you succeed would the atheists become Christians, Jewish, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, what?I think believeing in G-d is not a thing you can make people accept. Either they do or they don't. And why would you try to change anyone's mind? Would you want someone to try to convince you G-d doesn't exist?
2 people like this
• United States
20 Apr 07
I read your first two responses to Chiang_Mai_boy.I disagree. Faith is enough for some people. They don't need proof to believe in G-d. And religion doesn't have to be proven to be true. Even if it is false , some people will still believe. This reminds me of the scene in Crimes And Misdeanors where a character is asked if given the choice he would choose G-d over truth.
2 people like this
• United States
18 May 07
I hope you like Crimes And Misdemeanors.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
18 May 07
I am sorry I took so long to answer, sarahruthbeth22, I didn't noticed your post until now :( "Faith is enough for some people." That's ok, but is not the case of this kind of scientific atheistics, and if I can help them with a scientific demonstration, isn't it some kind of evangelization? I agree religion doesn't have to be proven to be true. Even if it is false, it is still valuable as a culture and a human manifestation. I have not seen "Crimes And Misdeanors", it sounds very interesting, I'll try to watch it. Thanks for your post!
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Apr 07
Oh that you were able many have tried and many hAVE FAILED !I myself cannot understand how someone can not be a believer .All we need to do is liik at the world arround us to know there is an intelegent designer !His name is GOD!
@missak (3311)
• Spain
15 Apr 07
That is the right sentence, but perhaps not the good explanation. what I do is take it from the end and get the story back, you'll see if some of them answer. They usually don't really convert, but they can't refuse me :P.
2 people like this
@Darkwing (21583)
20 May 07
That's a typical Christian thing to say Rev. I'm not a Christian, but I'm a believer... it's just that my beliefs are slightly different to yours! Can you not handle that different people think differently? If we were all the same, this would be a mighty boring world, don't you think? I don't feel any one religion has the right to dictate who or what anybody should believe in and when it comes down to the nitty gritty, you would probably find that most beliefs have a base, and in that base, there is an element of the belief which agrees with all the others. They just have a different way of doing things, like anything else in this world... even the same job. I am of the firm belief that if people were more understanding of their fellow men and women, their religions, their beliefs and their gods, goddesses, etc... there would be a far more peaceful world than there is these days. God is a general term as well, not a name. What name do you have for Him? I can name all mine! Why must we argue, and try to convert... no one of us is that self-righteous in our beliefs surely, and we certainly can't prove whether we are right or wrong until our time on this Earth is finished, so please, give us a break. Brightest Blessings, in love and in light.
• United States
20 May 07
i agree however when one faith begins to kill in the name of there god i must speak out against it if we could all coexist in peace i would remain silent comfortable in my own faith and allowing others to make there own choices however as long as there are people dying in the name of someone elsed God i can not keep silent !
1 person likes this
@herrbaggs (1308)
• United States
25 May 07
I don't believe in any single divine creator or any of the imaginary deities of man. Believing something does not make it real and not believing it will not make it go away. So what does that make me, somebody for all the believers to hate? I really don't care what anybody believes as long as they do not try to enforce thier beliefs with the sword. Unfortunatley the swishing of the sword seems to be the norm.
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
25 May 07
Of course I won't hate you for your atheism. My beliefs are also weird and many believers wouldn't accept them. So no sword, just sharing of ideas, what do you think?
• United States
26 May 07
I also do not care what God someone believes in except they always seem to pick one that demands retribution and blood sacrifice. I am so tired of religion and all the blather that goes with it I could just close one eye and fart.
2 people like this
@herrbaggs (1308)
• United States
30 May 07
You are wrong, I only close one eye and fart when I can't figure out wether to crapp or go blind.
2 people like this
@lamiaa (581)
• Egypt
22 May 07
i release my self from thinking of this believes , all i know is one thing , all the world , the seven earth and the seven sky , and what behind them , what we know and what we still don't know , all of that , all of the creature , all of that has only one GOD , GOD WHO made us from nowhere , there is no two GOD , there is only one , if there is two , i think they will fight , there is only one , not the son not any animal , no GOD ABOVE ALL , AND there is no our GOD , and your GOD , the only GOD is the only one who create all . and if some one doesn't believe in GOD , that is his choice , and i should except him , you know why !!! because if GOD except him in his earth , so don't we , he will back in the end TO GOD , WHATEVER WHEN , he will back to him some day , and then he will know that there is GOD , AND ONLY ONE ,
1 person likes this
@lamiaa (581)
• Egypt
22 May 07
i just want to correct something in my post , there is only one not the sun not the fire not the cow , thank u
1 person likes this
@lamiaa (581)
• Egypt
22 May 07
i am not sure that i understand your words , or maybe you didn't understand me well , yes GOD is above but all the spirituality forces is also come from GOD above , every thing move or change with him order , and you didn't understand me too when i said : i realise my self , that mean i tried and tried to do the same as you do , but i discover something very important , that the change come from the inside of the person not from any one else , GOD will never change people until they change what in them self , not me , not you , every one is so believe in what he believe and he will stand against any one who try to change , and the only thing that can change his mind is his spirituality inside him , the only thing can effect him that him , that in one moment think right , analyze his thought , maybe then he will see the truth , maybe not , but whatever i say or argue about i will not change his mind , he is the only one that capable of doing that .
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
22 May 07
Thanks for your post. I agree, but I think you are a little bit forcing. Why couldn't theere be a God above and then the spiritual forces of the nature? they will fight, ok, but that is what they do actually: you see the sea fighting with the earth, the fire eating everything, the herb growing everywhere, storm, the time... and life in constant change... I think that is also a positive idea of the world and religions on this line could also be right.
@Tanya8 (1733)
• Canada
22 May 07
Sorry for introducing myself with that sarcastic comment above. I'm another atheist willing to put myself forward for conversion, if you're still interested. I read you're exchange with Chaing-Mai-Boy, and see various points, I could pick up, but I thought I'd make sure, you were still following this discussion first.
1 person likes this
@Tanya8 (1733)
• Canada
22 May 07
Hi missak, I enjoy an exchange of ideas too. I'll start off by saying that I have no argument with people believing in God subjectively. I can understand how upbringing or personal experience could lead to beliefs in God and an afterlife, and if those beliefs make sense and bring fulfillment to the people who hold them, then I see no value in disagreeing with them (unless the way in which they practice their religion infringes on the rights of others). On the other hand, if someone wants to have an intellectual discussion about the OBJECTIVE existence of God and an afterlife, then I'd be happy to participate. So, I agree with you that it can get a bit ridiculous to try to think of heaven (or the equivalent) in terms of one's earthly desires being satisfied. Yet, the idea of happiness existing independent of the usual sequence of events that leads to it (e.g. a person feeling hungry then eating, or setting a goal then achieving it), sounds equally unbelievable to me. Our positive emotions strike me as great motivators for engaging in activity that keeps us safe, comfortable and alive (in addition to activity that leads to us producing offspring and keeping them safe, comfortable and alive) while we're here on Earth. We have also begun to understand how various processes in the brain work to produce our emotional states. Again it seems like wishful thinking to me, to pick the emotion that feels the best, and think we're going to get to experience it without the usual biology that gives rise to it, after we die. I can anticipate some of your objections to what I just said, based on your exchange with Chaing-Mai-Boy, but I don't want to make this too long. I'll just wait for your comments and then respond.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
23 May 07
I am sad because I have written a great long post yesterday and then my computer crashed and I couldn't fix it until now :(. I'll try to rewrite it now, but I am not so inspired. First, I talked about the Cibernetic Theory of the Mind. I joked about I was planning to make the next discussion on that, so the ways of God are inexcrutables lol. I think this theory (which claims the things you are talking about your mind and biology) don't take into account some widely documented mind powers/feelings which are called paranormal. Also, according to this theory art couldn't exist, since you can't invent nothing (so no inspiration, no creativity) if all is based on chemical-electrical stimulations. Finally, I talked about the human eager for eternal life, at least for trascendence, which is one of the needs that religions try to fulfill. This feeling don't seem to be related to survival instincts, but to some kind of relation with a spiritual world, what do you think? I can also anticipate some of your answers. I should have made this more original, but as I said, I am not too inspired (or perhaps my brain biology lacks some ingredients now, lol). So I'll try to make it better next time and I hope to surprise you then. :)
@missak (3311)
• Spain
24 May 07
I am also enjoying a lot this discussion, and learning from your view!! But now I have to take a while to reflect on what you said and specially on the link you gave me... I am a little sceptical about cybernetic arts, but I'll try to understand, as you are trying with my things. So meanwhile, you can come to my cybernetic discussion :). Be Inspiration with you ever, Randy Missak
@Tanya8 (1733)
• Canada
7 Jun 07
Hi Missak, I'm experimenting with adding a response here, because this discussion doesn't seem to bump up in the list of "discussions I've responded to" when I add a comment in the other section. I keep having to search for it. I also thought I'd switch back to addressing you by your screen name instead of your first name too. Now that you're keeping your picture anonymous, I thought you might want to do the same with your name. I look forward to talking with you soon. Tanya
1 person likes this
@Tanya8 (1733)
• Canada
7 Jun 07
Bah! It didn't work. It must be some cache issue. I see it bumped up in your list but not mine.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
7 Jun 07
Hi Tanya. It is a good idea to post here, but it won't bump up in your "discussions I've responded to" since there just count the first time you answered. So it is better to keep somewhere the link for this discuission so that you don't have to search for it. You can call me Randy if you like, I don't want to be anonymus for thoose who are not anonymus to me. In that discussion I was just talking about first impressions. I'll take longer than I expected with your "free will" comments in that discussion, they are long and interesting... I'll answer as soon as I can. Sincerely, Randy
@missak (3311)
• Spain
14 Jun 07
I think we should move the discussion here, it is a bit of scrolling to find an answer in the other post! I have already defined methaphysics, as things, beings and facts that comes from a concious subject (ego/soul). I mean, methaphysical facts are not ruled by action-reaction or physical rules, but by the decision of a person (in my opinion originated on his/her soul) or a decision of god, of a ghost, of a spirit, of an Orisha, of an angel... anything that comes from free will, that is totally subjective and cannot be defined by an empiric rule. Methaphysical beings are thoose who have this subjective capacity of decision/creation (thoose who have a soul, and the already listed).
• United States
2 Jun 07
Well best of luck. I honestly believe that for most people who are atheistic, they've never had reason to trul try their beliefs. Many have either had little to no trials and tribulations in life or none that have defied the odds. Unfortunately many people "find God" when they have no where else to turn. There's a quote that the military says that claims "You'll find no atheist huddled in a foxhole" and I think this says a lot about when we decide to open our hearts. No, not ALL people are this way and NO not every atheist hasn't been put to the test but I do think that a majority of it goes that way. Best of luck!
1 person likes this
@Ciniful (1587)
• Canada
3 Jun 07
I'm afraid you're mistaken hockeygal ... most atheists, at least the ones willing to discuss religion and the like, were RAISED religious. If you were to do a little research, you'd soon find that the bible has been most often read and devoured by atheists, so we know the material. Most of us were raised in conservative religious households that played a big part of our lives. I'll give you a quick example. I was raised christian. I was part of the youth group, choir, sunday school, you name it. My family was at church every weekend, had lunch with the parish priest, and ran the church retreats. My aunt was the church secretary and my grandfather it's biggest donator. I promise you we were not cafeteria christians. I lived that life for 20 years. I'm now a militant atheist. I write articles and blogs, I'm a member of the RRS (Rational Response Squad). I'm well researched and very well educated when it comes to biblical studies, historical studies that coincide, etc. I read everything and anything I can get my hands on regarding the farce that calls itself religion. And you know what? Out of every other person I know who calls themself an atheist (and there are many, when you consider my articles, groups, forums, communities and whatnot) .. only 2 that I can think of offhand were NOT raised religiously.
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
3 Jun 07
Thanks! I also think that most atheistics are like you said, and just they don't like or agree with the religion of the place where they have been rised. But it was funny here to find some good reflected atheistics to discuss with...
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
4 Jun 07
Sorry if I ofended you, Ciniful, that was not my point. What I was trying to say is that religion is not church, nor even christianity. And what I deffend is not a static organized religion, but a general and variable philosophycal idea. What I was trying to say is that most atheistics (perhaps you included, but not necesarely) are tired of what a religion community does and its lies, specially when that community is the powerful church. I am sure that, althought perhaps you are not that kind of atheistic, you should have found in all those relations you talk about, many atheistics that base themselfs on their repulse for the church, and have not tried to find sense in other religions (specially non abrahamic, which are totally different).
1 person likes this
• India
12 Jun 07
I am an atheist, I refuse to believe in something which practically does not exist.Although I dont tell others to do the same..I respect their religions and even go to temples and churches if my friends ask me to..I dont see anything wrong with that..But I refuse to believe in somthing that's imaginary God is a Delusion,Religion is a virus. Faith is like a virus passed down from generations,by imposing religion on children who are too inexperienced to judge for themselves we are perpetuating beliefs that are leading to murderous intolerance Just read the reviews or if possible the book The GOD DELUSION----Richard Dawkins.
1 person likes this
@Tanya8 (1733)
• Canada
12 Jun 07
Whoa there, I've been in this discussion for a while (I'm also an atheist), and I'm quite sure he's not asking if you know what the word means. From what I've experienced of his posts, he's very open minded and just wants to have a discussion. He's asserted many times that his initial post about converting us was intended to be humorous. He also seems (in my opinion) to hold a deistic view of God, rather than one often held by people who belong to organized religions. He doesn't see God as a parental figure. Sorry missak, I'm know you can speak for yourself, but I think I've developed a big-sisterly, protectiveness toward you, since we started our discussion - lol.
1 person likes this
• India
12 Jun 07
Oh boy now you have got it too personal and seem offended DONT YOU!!! Yes I do understand Metaphysics..dont think ur the only smarta** around.I did not mean to impose my beliefs on you.I just have rational approach towards life....What God means to you,My parents mean to me...I dont need to go beyond my parents to thank someone for creating me...Get IT.For me they are the world.Religion was created by a group of people for their benefits...I dont mean offence to any of the teachings that these religions has to offer...As i said I respect them all and have learnt many good values from these religions.But somehow people end up fighting over it.I have seen many such instances.For me you dont have to be a theist or religious to be a nice person..It's what you do that defines you...Next time watch what you speak about..If we want healthy discussions then I am never shy of learning new things...anything that you'd like to share is much appreciated even if it's criticism..But spare me ur stupid questions as en do u even know what metaphysics means...Oh man!!!
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
12 Jun 07
Hi Darkhorse1311, this seems to me like the marxist argument. "Religion is the opium of the people" Marx said ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_People ). I also respect atheists and the target of this discussion is to share ideas and have a philosophical debat. I like for this Unamuno's reply: we shall let the people have ther religion opium if it give them peace... For me, that means that even if religion is invented, our power to invent it is methaphysical, so it practically exists. But first I would ask, what do you understand for methaphysics?
• Canada
20 Jun 07
alright, you told me to come here... since the burden is on YOU to start, prove god exists... o wait, there is no proof i win! lol what an amazing discussion we had..haha jokes, go ahead..stop reading, i said stop, go argue something, STOP READING, YOUR STILL READING? wow, something is wrong with you cause im still rambling on about nothing and your still stupid enough to read this.. still? your still reading? wow, you ARE stupid. loolo.. k il stop, il stop whenever you stop reading.... ... did you stop yet? ... how about now?? are you going to make an argument on god or not? stop reading and get to work, arite, il help you out, i will stop typing so you can stop reading. k? here we go, on the count of 3 i will stop. 3. 2. 1. STOP. no go write something, i said go!
1 person likes this
• Canada
20 Jun 07
finally you stopped reading... i just wanted to say one more thing before you start.. dont ask me to read the other examples, lets start fresh. you can copy and paste..
1 person likes this
• Canada
21 Jun 07
okay, im sorry but i dont understand all 3 of your questions, well the third one i do. but 1 and 2 the grammer is wrong and i dont know how to respond to that, can you say it again? are you asking me "what makes the world go round?" "what makes survival possible?" "are you a deterministic person?" sorry i just dont want to answer to the wrong question, and then we would need to start all over. please explain again =D
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
20 Jun 07
I won't copy and paste, there are tons and tons of posts to copy an paste... go reading answer 4 and 14, if you want to see where I go. Thanks for your stupid long post, I'll earn some good money for it unless it gets deleted. So I'll try to post something intelligent here so that they can't delete it. Ok, forget all about the Bible, all you know about God, faith and all that. I'll give you three questions: -What is for you what goes on in the world? (i.e. love, freedom...) -What is for you what makes the world go on? (i.e. evolution, energy...) -Are you dterministic? I think what goes on in the world is love and freedom, and what makes this work is the balance between them, and I know freedom exists so I am not deterministic. Therefore, God exists. But we will discuss that later, first answer to the three questions, and if your answers are different than mines, we will start for discussing that concepts (freedom/determinism, love/perfection, etc). Are you still reading? Do you still want to debat? continue reading. I said continue reading, don't matter if I won't write more. You can find more in posts 4 and 14 so I don't have to write more unless you have new doubts. So continue reading.
• Austria
23 May 07
I guess I'm an atheist, maybe agnostic. An agnostic atheist....hm... Nothing you say could convert me, or even get me close to converting. Many have tried, but it just isn't going to happen. And all arguments for it have so many holes in it... just like the bible has holes in it.
• Austria
2 Jun 07
First of all, I haven't read anything other than the bible, that was forced down my throat by the Catholics.... So I can't really argue any other writings. But I remember way back in first grade, the priest talked of Adam and Eve and none of it made sense in my head. Nine years of religion later I still didn't buy any of it. And I never believed it was the word of god, I always knew it was just the writing of men, men fasting in the desert who began to see things possibly. It seems to me man has to believe that there is more to their life than just their short life itself. That there has to be a purpose, a deeper meaning to it. Apparently animals are born we kill and eat them and that's the end of them, but people, ah people are so special, there has to be a purpose and after we die there has to be something else. It's just man's way to give importance to himself. So in this quest to find purpose man, wrote some books, and then you have the church which translated and translated and mutated the bible to gain power over the uneducated. I think it's all just man made hype exploiting man's need for meaning and purpose. That's all. Maybe not what you were looking for but that's how I see it. We're just here and when we die we're gone. There might be some kind of energy residue after we die but that's about it in my opinion.
1 person likes this
• Austria
4 Jun 07
When I say energy, I never said intelligent energy. Heck a rock has energy, an ant has energy. You're assuming I'm talking about an energy with a plan for this world and it's inhabitants. I'm not. For all I know this energy could be going duh all day long if that. I don't believe there's an intelligent anything that can create a plan for us or that is has power over the entire universe.... As far as Adam and Eve, you can explain that one all you want, it doesn't convince me that there is a god, or that the bible is god's word. Still waiting to be converted......
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
1 Jun 07
Well, for agnostic I can't say much. But for real atheist, I can share my thoughts as I did on answer 4 and 14, all you have to do is put here your arguments on why you don't believe and what you don't believe. I am not as many, I am myself lol. Just give me a try.
@Nebuloso (179)
• United States
20 Apr 07
Very good discussion here. I can appreciate some of your views, missak. I want to re-read them and think about them a little more before I comment on them specifically, but from my first reading, I don't think that I necessarily disagree with what you are arguing. That isn't to say I agree with it either, mind you. lol As for myself, I am an agnostic. I am also a scientist, which is entirely consistent. As a scientist, I neither believe nor disbelieve. I gather data, sift through it, and try to find the explanation that best fits the facts. Even so, this "best explanation" is always open for revision (or to be discarded entirely!) based upon new evidence. Relating this to religion...I neither believe nor disbelieve in God. The evidence out there is not conclusive either way, in my opinion. Of course, I tend to catch a lot of heat from both religious people AND atheists because of this, because each side is so sure they are right and have conclusive proof of this fact. Each person has to decide for themselves on this issue. My decision is to sit patiently and wait until I get more data. ;)
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
20 Apr 07
Thanks a lot for your answer. I targeted you there so that you read about a religion which accepts evolution (very amazing). I take sometimes religion in a scientific way, althought actually I am an artist, and that means I just trust on creation. I feel towards science like you towards religion, I let it pass and see what happens, to gather inspiration (paraphrasing your "gather information"). That means that I love to learn about science, but I don't look actually for a deep professional understanding of it. I'm proud you liked my discussion.
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
13 Jun 07
Hi Juline, nice to have you in my discussion! Please explain your point in a new answer so that you get email alerts with my replies. Have a nice day!
@juline (77)
• Singapore
13 Jun 07
Hehe, they also say agnostics are people who "sit on the fence"! But being an agnostic is more politically correct than being an atheist, since you offend less people!
@magica (3707)
• Bulgaria
20 May 07
Nobody is complete atheistic, i think. Everybody believes in something or somebody supreme, just the names are different. I have studied some of the main religions, so i have arguments too. But i avoid to convert people:-) This is against their free will:-)
1 person likes this
@Ciniful (1587)
• Canada
3 Jun 07
That's a copout response believers use regarding non believers when they want to justify why we think differently. I can honestly tell you that I believe in no infinate power. No god, or gods, or supreme being, regardless of names. You can continue to believe that we all harbour some hidden belief and are trying to be rebellious, but you're deluding yourself.
1 person likes this
• Canada
21 May 07
i dont believe in anything. lol...how can u speak for others?
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
20 May 07
Mmmm I have never intended to go against free will! Just I wanted to share my arguments... and if someone finds that I am right and he is wrong, do you really think that this is against free will? I think it is just a knowaledge exchange. I would also be happy if I find I am wrong and someone is right!
@FrancyDafne (2047)
• Italy
8 Jun 07
Wow, conversions.... what a sad word.... Why to try to convert people? I speak with a lot of people every day, and yet I never tried to convert anybody. I'm a Pagan and I love my culture, my ancient roots, my religion, I never speak with people about my own faith that is only a personal choice of mine, but if somebody asks me to speak about it I have no problems to start discussions about it. But I'd never want to convert anyone, why? It's a good thing to share opinions, discussions, debates, but I think it's good to go on believing in what we are, why to change our way of thinking at any cost? So, you can have all the arguments you want, but I don't like the mood with whom you start discussing with people.
• Italy
11 Jun 07
I shouldn't use that word. I didn't want to mean that word, it was just an ironic joke. I would be glad if you come to my Pagan's discussion (look at the link on Lecanis answer here). Or any other one you like. You will find I am very open minded and respectful with different minds.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
8 Jun 07
I am sorry. I shouldn't use that word. I didn't want to mean that word, it was just an ironic joke. I don't want to convert anyone, just share ideas and have a philosophical debat. I have made a discussion about any religion I know, and I thought atheistics merited one also, but I needed their ideas first. I would be glad if you come to my Pagan's discussion (look at the link on Lecanis answer here). Or any other one you like. You will find I am very open minded and respectful with different minds.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
11 Jun 07
That's great! I will be waiting for your view on that Pagan discussion :)
1 person likes this
• United States
18 May 07
I am a believer - so no need to give me any arguments. I have a few friends who are agnostic or atheist. I personally don't understand it but show them all my love and respect regardless of their beliefs. I have seen people on their deathbeds who have made dramatic turn arounds on this one!
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
21 May 07
Hi add_im, thanks for answering. I respect your point of view, but I don't agree. God gave me a mind and the eager for understanding. God gave me my eyes to view, my tongue to speak, my brain to think. I don't think debating is a sin if God gave me all the tools, I think it is rather another form of accesing God. I find I help people with my debates, so I think it is a Godly thing. I cannot intrude myself in their personal relation with God, just I can gave them the keys that mad possible my personnal relation with the God.
@missak (3311)
• Spain
18 May 07
Thanks for your answer. I also respect any opinion, but I like the philosophical debat.
@add_im (2712)
• Philippines
21 May 07
To have a personal relationship with our Savior doesn't require His people any debations...so if you are one of God's children, you do not need to have a philosophically debates towards others but instead you are going to help them know the Lord personally in their lives and pray for their souls, that's the only key...not debates.
1 person likes this
• United States
17 Apr 07
(im not atheistist) but are they allowed to try and convert you too??
1 person likes this
@Darkwing (21583)
16 Jun 07
An atheist wouldn't even consider converting anybody Rarrimalion, as they believe that we should all find our own beliefs with which we should feel comfortable, and we should be able to follow them without any interruption from others, or attempts to convert. So, this would not even be an alternative, I'm afraid.
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
17 Apr 07
Of course, if they can find arguments and philosophical answers and refutations to what I said. Do you think they will be able to do that? have you read the long answeres? I think they won't, lol .
@missak (3311)
• Spain
16 Jun 07
Well, I think what she wanted to mean is if I am open to follow their arguments, and if I would admit I am wrong if their arguments are better than mines... Actually I got good arguments in answers 4 and 14, I have learned a lot.
• United States
22 May 07
I "know" there is a God!!..no doubt..I truly believe that a person would have to be totally uneducated to not believe in God..Look at our life here...God made it possible for us to survive here..there is no way anyone could ever convince me that this was merely "chance"..no way!!..
1 person likes this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
22 May 07
That is also my argument. I think I can also learn from people that don't agree with that, trying to understand why, if for me is so clear. Thanks for your answer, and happy to be your new friend :)
@arsonizta (944)
• Philippines
9 Jun 07
I'm an atheist too!! But I'm not against religion or any faith.. If it keeps the people good then that's better.. But for me, I really don't need to have religion.. i think it only gives hope and values to people. I believe that I already have the values which are essential to me as a social person.
@missak (3311)
• Spain
10 Jun 07
That's beautiful. But that is not atheistic in my opinion: you believe in something (nature). I think is the same to what I call Mother Nature, which is more like a theistic idea.
@missak (3311)
• Spain
10 Jun 07
I am neither against atheists. This is just some ideas exchange. I guess you do believe in some methaphysical being, such as your "personal values" seems to be...
• Philippines
10 Jun 07
Yes, seems to be.. I am a naturalist. :) And I'm proud of it.
1 person likes this