Harassing or Informing?
By castleghost
@castleghost (1304)
United States
June 29, 2007 7:58am CST
I want to share an article that I read earlier this morning. I find it interesting to say the least.
Jun 28, 9:18 PM (ET)
LOGAN, Utah (AP) - A 76-year-old woman has been barred from the bus station after giving unwanted birth-control advice to mothers with large families. "I think it's wrong. It's a violation of my First Amendment rights," Laura Stevens said.
She was arrested Tuesday for trespassing, a misdemeanor, according to police records.
"She's been making comments to some of the Hispanic passengers that they should be on the pill, that they're taking over our society," said Todd Beutler, general manager of the Cache Valley Transit District.
"The passengers have a right to ride and not be intimidated," he said.
Stevens said she recently noticed a mother struggling to control her six children.
"I felt sorry for her. Maybe she doesn't know that she could get a patch and not have a kid for five years," Stevens said.
She said she will fight the trespassing charge when she appears in Logan's Municipal Court on Tuesday.
"We want her to ride the bus," Beutler said. "We just need to make sure that she's not harassing any other passengers."
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Information from: The Herald Journal, http://www.hjnews.com
I really don't know what to think about this situation. I always assumed that as American citizens that we were allowed to share our opinions and information with one another.
Do you think that that Ms. Stevens should have been arrested? Please explain why or why not.
4 people like this
13 responses
@pallidyne (858)
• United States
29 Jun 07
It strikes me that the woman was not just commeting but harassing the parent in question..
As Americans we have rights that extend as far as our noses. They are there as long as we are not inviolate of the other persons right to exist as well. I'm going to speculate, based on normal police procedures, that the parent complained to the bus company, who then call the police.
Our freedom of speech is great power that comes with great responsibility. If the freedom of speech was totally unfettered, we could yell "Fire" in the middle of a crowded theatre and there would be no consequence. There would be no such thing as harassment on the law books. There would not be a charge of libel or slander for criminal nor civil cases. There's even a term called "fighting words" that is used for self-defense justifications.
So, say whatever you want to whomever you want. Just be prepared for the results of your action. Freedom of speech does not absolve you from those.
2 people like this
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
Your right we do have to watch what we are saying. One of the reasons why a person shouldn't yell "fire" in a crowded theatre is because it will cause people to panic and they will try to rush out of a building not caring who get shurt in the process. I guess by this older lady telling the younger lady about the patch she just might be compelled to run out of the bus station in to traffic and get hit by a car. Or if they happened to be on the bus at the time she just might have jumped off of the bus and gotten hurt as she rushed to go get herself a patch.
The lady happened to be arrested for trespassing. Which means that she had illegal went on to someone else property. Not that she harassed someone.
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
I am sorry I guess I am wrong about what trespassing means. Another meaning of trespassing is: To intrude on (someone's time, privacy, rights, etc). So I admit that I am wrong. The next time someone wants to take a moment of my time to tell me something that I couldn't care less to know about I will inform them that they are trespassing.
@aralsten6245 (25)
• United States
29 Jun 07
As a mother, I would have been very offended by those statements. Let's be real here! If someone came up to me and said "get on the patch" I would probably haul off and throw a fit...at least to my girlfriends later that day! It is freedom of speech, but it's common courtsey to hold your tongue. The truth is, as people get older, we tend to make exceptions with "they didn't know any better" and "in their day, those kind of comments we acceptable" but the truth of it is, they should have known better and we aren't in that day anymore. When I had my son, I was 19 years old and very dedicated to being a good mother to my son. It bothered me that the nurses treated me as if I was stupid and my pregnancy was a mistake. WRONG! I was married and excited about the first birth! So when the nurse made the comment to me "You take such good care of that child for a teenager" I was upset! Of course I take good care of my child, I'm his MOTHER! Just because I'm a teenager having a baby does not mean I am completely stupid or that my baby was an accident. I even had a lady in the check out line tell me that abortion is always an option and I should look it to that instead of dealing with a pregnency that I didn't want. Yes, this 60-70 year old lady about got hit in the mouth. I wanted my baby and I let her know that, LOUD AND CLEAR! Be careful what you say, it is offensive sometimes and you need to be ready to deal with the consequences!
2 people like this
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
I agree that sometimes we need to tell people that they should mind their own buisness but I don't think that this was cause to have her arrested. It is a waste of taxpayers money. When someone gives me their unwanted opinion then I tell them as much. I don't call up the police to have them arrested. Our court system is already over worked.
@coferbox (298)
• United States
29 Jun 07
You have a right to share your opinion with people who want to hear them. The right to free speech only means that the government can't put you in jail for voicing disagreement with the. You know the way in some countries a newspaperman will be put in jail for publishing a story the criticizes the president. Nothing in the freedom of speech means that you have a right to be rude to people and stick you nose into their business. It is funny how much most people misunderstand the freedom of speech - it only applies to the way the government treats it's citizens, it doesn't mean you have the right to say anything you please to your fellow citizens. If a total stranger walked up to you and started giving you their opinion on how you lived your life would you be offended or would you say to yourself "well that's their right"?
1 person likes this
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
Well to be honest with you. I might be offended and I would more then likely make a comment such as "Thanks for sharing your uninformed opinion with me. Next time you want to share your opinion with someone could you please make sure that they would like for you to." I wouldn't however, have the person arrested for trespassing.
@devilsangel (1817)
• United States
29 Jun 07
Frankly she's lucky all she got was arested. As a parent if she had said something like that to me I think I would have slaped the crap outta her, old or not. She had no right to say that to those people and yes it was harassment. Just because she doesn't think those women should have as many children as they do doesn't give her the right to be rude and disrespectful to them or to make them feel uncomfortable in a public place. She should have kept her mouth shut and her opinions to herself, unless asked. She wasn't informing them of anything she was being rude and it appers a bit racist considering she's targeting hispanic families.
1 person likes this
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
I can understand telling her that she is harassing other bus riders because of the things she is saying but I don't see why she should have been arrested. She should have been banned from riding the bus or going to the bus station. Everyday there are people giving other people opinions that they wasn't asked for. Is every single person giving nwanted opinions being arrested?
@ChampagneGiggles (699)
• United States
29 Jun 07
From what I read, it sounds like she'd harassed women before and was warned about it, to either shut up or get off. And IF that's the case, then there is a legitimate charge for trespassing. If they did not warn her (which I find highly unlikely), then that's a false charge, but either way, she was wrong.
1 person likes this
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
I agree that she didn't really have the right to tell the mothers about birth control. It isn't her buisness unless they are asking her for money to help support those children. However, I didn't read anything that said she had already been warned before about discussing birth control with others who are riding on the bus.
@ChampagneGiggles (699)
• United States
1 Jul 07
I'm saying if she had been warned, it was definitely trespassing. But only if.
@trk918 (254)
• United States
29 Jun 07
I think they should have notified her that her advice was bothering passengers an ask her nicely to stop. Sometimes it is only one person that complains & it is not even the person who she was talking to. They end up threatening a lawsuite so the company has no choice be to take action to please the person with the threat. It sad. She probably should not have been arrested but I'm sure there is much more to this story than we will ever know.
2 people like this
@4monsters4me (2569)
• United States
30 Jun 07
I didn't read the article but I would assume she was arrested for trespassing because the people who run the bus station asked her to leave and she did not. If she was loitering and pestering paying riders they have every right to ask her to leave the station. If she stayed they could have her arrested.
I, for one, would have been highly offended if she had said anything to me and probably would have told her to mind her own business. I have 4 children and I know exactly how they happen. There is nothing wrong with having a large family.
1 person likes this
@saralee1 (1983)
• United States
30 Jun 07
I think it is kind of funny, actually. I think that indeed if a woman is riding on the bus with her six kids,
then she just cannot keep her legs closed, and probably has no idea there is birth control out there!
I think she owes this woman a favor. It could probably keep her off of welfare too. Riding the bus with six kids is a little extreme, and I seriously doubt all of those rugrats were staying in place.
@nancyrowina (3850)
•
29 Jun 07
I think it's extreme to arrest her and charge her, after all old people have always sat there and given young people advice they didn't want or ask for. She should just have it explained to her that some people find what she's saying offensive and she should keep her opinions to herself. Or she could join Mylot and voice her opinions on here so we could all discuss them.
1 person likes this
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
LOL Nancyrowina, I like the way that you think. It would be nice if we would be able to contact Ms. Stevens to invite her to mylot so that she could share her opinions with everyone.
@easy888 (10405)
• Australia
29 Jun 07
Hello,castleghost,as an american citizen,you may be able to express your views freely provided you do not abuse the other people or make them uncomfortable. It seems that Ms Steven is suggesting that having too many children is not a good thing,the passengers may not also want to talk with her about that topic,she may have felt offended by Ms steven.May be it is not a good timing for Ms Stevn to bring that topic to the woman,but charging her with trespassing and misdemeanor may be too much.
@castleghost (1304)
• United States
29 Jun 07
I agree with you that it wasn't Ms. Stevens place to tell this lady about the patch and that perhaps she did tell her about it in the wrong place at the wrong time. My issue is that she was charged with the misdemeanor of trespassing. Which means that she wasn't suppose to be in the bus station or on the bus. She wasn't charged with harassing the other bus rider.
@LCecelia (1124)
• United States
29 Jun 07
You are correct that we are allowed to "share" our opinion. My belief however is that it is one thing to share your opinion WHEN ASKED and another thing to force your opinion on me without my permission.
Its like sharing your belief in God. If an opening comes up in a conversation, sure take it but if you encounter resistance I believe that if you don't back off you have crossed the line to harassment.
Just my 2 cents.
1 person likes this
@suzieb (188)
• United States
29 Jun 07
Everyone has the freedom to speak their mind, but when someone doesn't want to hear what you have to say you can't force it. That is harassment. I know a lot of people who wouldn't be nice about telling her to back off and mind her own buisness.
I feel bad that she got arrested, but she was warned. Just because your 76 doesn't mean you know everything and people should listen to you.
1 person likes this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
30 Jun 07
It sounds to me as if she must have overdone it. I don't know. We are all entitled to our opinion and I can only imagine that she must have gone way beyond the bounds of "feeling sorry for one mother" in order to have the police called in. I suspect that she maybe made a nuisance of herself on more than one occassion.The bus station has a right to barr her if customers are complaining and obviously they were. I am a mom of 4 and if she approached me with her advise, I probably would have listened politely the first time. If day after day, I had to listen to her unsolicited advise, I would complain. There is a fine line between free speech and harrasment. i am willing to bet that she crossed it. She sounds like a busybody and a know it all...we all know the type. She was warned and told that her "sympathy" and "advice" were not welcome. She should have backed off. This woman was not sharing opinions...she was harrassing and pushing her views onto others. she was invading their personal space. yes, she was given plenty of warnings. she chose not to heed and so yes...she needs to accept her consequences...if not jail, then definitly mental evaluation.
1 person likes this
