Let's Talk Embryos!!
By skinnychick
@skinnychick (6905)
United States
March 6, 2008 10:45pm CST
This topic popped into my head as I was responding to another discussion and I thought why not try to have a civil debate on this issue. The issue being embryonic stem cell research using discarded embryos for research.
Here's a little back story for you:
Our fateful leader George W. Bush vetoed the Stem Cell Enhancement Act of 2007 (formerly 2005) last year saying that embryonic stem cell research is morally wrong for our decent American society. Oh really- interesting stuff from the Pres. The bill itself would have made it legal to use discarded embryos and aborted fetal tissue in embryonic stem cell research as well as a federal funding allotment. His veto banned any federal funding at all for such research projects as well as using any "new" embryos. What about the discarded embryos sitting in the medical waste cans of fertility clinics and fetal tissue sitting in cans at the abortion clinics?? Surely- it must be morally wrong to throw these valuable items away. Right??
Embryonic stem cell research is not illegal, it is even currently being done and funded by private donation and 9 states have tax allotment for this type of research. Not bad- OH WAIT- that is only 9 out of 50-51 if you consider Puerto Rico. It is illegal to use discarded fetal tissue and embryos and illegal for the federal government to fund it. How then is George Bush protecting the sanctity of life??? He is allowing valuable tissue to be thrown into the trash. Tissue that could quite possibly change the face of terminal horrible diseases as we know it- not to mention by this research we can get a better idea of genetics and how they operate to form a human being. A cure for cancer and other debilitating diseses could be on the horizon and the President and other oppositionists are choosing to ignore the positives that stem cell research has to offer.
400,000 unused and unwanted embryos that people had extracted in hopes of having a baby are put in medical waste bags and labeled as biohazards- thrown into the garbage..is that preserving the sanctity of human life..see above paragraph. This is a staggering statistic of valuable waste.
I'm not saying, let's start selling embryos to researchers or harvesting for research. What I'm saying is give women signing over these embryos to the trash the choice to donate them to Science. The only other option, besides destruction, these women are offered is embryo adoption. Here's another staggering statistic only 1 out of 100 women (couples) donate their embryos to adoption. Apparently most of these people would rather throw their cells away for an unknown reason. By the way, I'm all for embryo adoption as an alternative.
For the religious, "pro lifers" out there who says birth starts at conception and that we shouldn't play god...How then do most religious pro lifers allow in vitro fertilization at all- isn't that playing God as well?
So what are your views on this subject??? Are you for or against Embryonic stem cell research??
There are a couple other points that I didn't hit on and I realize that but I'm hoping they will come up in the discussion and I can respond then.
Thanks for your views in advance and thanks for reading!
4 people like this
7 responses
@Sissygrl (10912)
• Canada
7 Mar 08
Okay, before i start i'd like to say that pretty much the only thing i know about this topic is what you've really told me here.. so i dont have all the facts. I've heard of it being illegal in the states, but i'm not sure if its legal or not here.. in canada.
I am FOR it. If it helps to find cures for diseases and helps people that otherwise could not have children have children, i am for it.
I really like your point abot the prolifers and the invetro fertilization statement. It's true that you can't have it both ways!
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
7 Mar 08
If anything I hope you learned a little bit. I wrote a paper long ago for school on this subject and my statistics are true statistics and statements from the research that I had done.
As far as your country, Canada is at the forefront of stem cell research. There are many pioneers in this field there. It is 100 percent legal and the government does partly fund it and stand behind it. It seems that Canadian views are much more liberal for the advancement of medicine through this research compared to Americans. The government guidelines are very strict as they should be pertaining to stem cell and America should follow suit. I believe that America should take a good hard look at Canadian policy and we should adopt the same. Everyone wins in that situation.
If you like science, this particular topic is very interesting and much good can come out of this research if we could only get the American government to agree.
Thanks for stopping by hun!
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
7 Mar 08
Good point!! But there are con's to free health care as well as paid..I'm not sure which is the lesser of two evils yet. It would never happen here in America- free health care as you said would ruin the financial stability of many people and America wouldn't have it- at least Rich America...
1 person likes this
@Sissygrl (10912)
• Canada
7 Mar 08
I see what you mean as a con for free healthcare if it wasn't free and then it suddenly WAS free.. but what are some cons to having free healthcare for canadians ? I can't seem to think of anything.. other then the privatisation of some clinics so that some people who can afford to go there get treated before the people who are waiting in line with in the hospitals. . But we still ALL get health coverage and NO one is turned away in a hospital. . isn't that ideal for a healthy society ?
1 person likes this
@AJ1952Chats (2332)
• Anderson, Indiana
11 Mar 08
It's strange how our President didn't stop the legalized murder of Karla-Faye Tucker-Brown when he was Governor of Texas even though she had become that new creation celebrated in II Corinthians 5:17 and was making a positive difference in a lot of lives--and, yet, he's standing in the way of federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research because life is sacred.
And this is the same President who is so "juiced-up" on fighting an ongoing "war on terror" that he's already looking a Iran as the next target for sending troops to--with the goal being to wage war on every nation that might be "harboring" terrorists.
Mr. President, you brought out a bunch of children born of "adopted" embryos to show what could become of these leftovers. But that's a rare thing to happen.
If you're reading this, Mr. President, I'd like for you to listen to this song about the cost of life resulting from the war you desire to increase...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vN3sllvMK0
Perhaps, it's easier to find an embryo to be more sacred than a born human with all of his/her warts.
Is that embryo more sacred than the 2000-4000 homeless children and teens in San Diego, alone!?!
http://www.freewebs.com/invisibleyouth
Let me tell you about embryos.
They are implanted in women who have trouble becoming pregnant in the conventional way.
Perhaps, a dozen embryos at a time are implanted.
Sometimes, none of them stick to result in a pregnancy.
Twelve embryos!
What do the tests show when they don't stick?
They show that the woman isn't pregnant--and, furthermore, never WAS pregnant.
So implanting embryos doesn't necessarily result in a pregnancy--so we're not even talking babies here, unless you want to call the sperm and egg before contact a baby.
There IS no baby.
Even if a pregnancy resulted, it wouldn't involve all twelve embryos implanted. That is, the people who might have twins from this wouldn't say that she had a dozen children but only two are currently living.
Tests wouldn't show her as having suffered ten miscarriages.
So this is all just a dramatic thing on the President's part, imo.
Mr. President, if you truly ARE pro-life, get our troops out of Iraq as quickly as possible--and DEFINITELY don't go looking for more trouble!
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
13 Mar 08
I loved your "plea" to the President- too bad he probably isn't listening. Great analogy and great points. The President is in no way pro life he is pro money and pro stupid. He like his father has started something that he can't finish, but in the mean time- good American men and women are dying for a country that is not even their own. Why again are we even there? To help them start a new government when are own is in shambles?? Meanwhile we have good American fighters dying! He has shown that he has a blatant disregard for life in many ways- not just with this bill, but with Iraq, with poverty in America and education in America, and everything else about America. I agree with you he needs to get a grip and figure out where he stands! Thanks for stopping by!
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
13 Mar 08
I really appreciate...and respect your willingness to open the floor for discussion on what some consider a 'sensitive' issue. In my view your have presented a great perspective and offered views that are well worth discussing. I am on the same page as you on this one.
To discard cells that could benefit the greater good because some in society have a narrow, uninformed focus is tragic. Many with dogmatic beliefs about life cannot see beyond them and the ones most heavily invested find it hardest to change.
Your presentation on who is really protecting the sanctity of life and to what ends is the larger issue here...as it is in many areas in life. So I am very much FOR Embryonic stem cell research. Anything that has the potential to stop people's suffering and already has a good track records needs to researched more in my view.
Interesting discussion...and equally interesting responses. Glad I dropped by to chat here.
Raia
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
13 Mar 08
Raia- thanks to sissygirl- when I started this discussion I had no idea the legalities of stem cell in Canada. Most Canadians are all for it. The Canadian government has seen fit to establish strict laws regarding stem cell research. This makes Canadian researchers pioneers in this field.
Some would consider this a sensitive issue but they are failing to see- the real "sensitive" issue is that in this country we are wasteful. We are throwing away material that can save many lives. Send it to Canada for all I care and let them have more research material but this tissue needs to stop being put in the garbage. We have enormous capacity to empower doctors with the tools they need to eradicate disease and end suffering but unfortunately, the first step is the research which needs tissue which is sitting in red medical waste cans all over America waiting to be "disposed of properly". It's very sad. People have passionate feelings about all sorts of things- abortion for example which some may view as murder. Throwing these embryos away would be the same thing in their views and noone wants to stand up and research this to find out what it is truly about.
Maybe if they got Cancer or their child got Cancer they would feel much differently. When they need hope to save their own lives then maybe a mindset will change but by then it will be too late. We let most technologies advance, geez we even have cell phones that are mini computers..but still after ages no cure for Cancer. There is something wrong with this picture! Science is among one of the oldest technologies that we have and most of America wants to hinder it instead of advance it. But hey who cares as long as we have fast computers and our families are healthy? I think some of America needs better foresight as to what will happen if we don't advance Science and just give up on it.
Thanks for stopping by and letting me rant. This is a subject that I'm very passionate about and hold dear! Have a great day my dear friend!
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
23 Mar 08
I emailed you earlier my dear friend! Thanks again for stopping by! :)
This subject definitely needs more time especially in our media!
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
23 Mar 08
I don't think it is a bigger issue I think it is the same issue with these discarded embryos. That is the same thing in a sense if you are looking at an embryo as a life.
@david2005 (798)
• Canada
9 Mar 08
I think that things should be left alone and no one deserves to play god except god him self.
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
9 Mar 08
I respect that opinion. So is it fair to say that you do not believe in invitro fertilization as well? Is it fair to say that we should let nature take it's course and not treat disease at all because god will heal if he so chooses as scientologists believe? Does that mean you don't take medicine when you are sick or if you had cancer that you would not have it treated?
Doing research is not playing god..doing research on embryos that were going in the garbage anyway is trying to save humankind from extinction and disease. Is it ok that we just throw life in the garbage?
@david2005 (798)
• Canada
10 Mar 08
If it wasn't for man in the first place we wouldn't need cures for half of the crap that is out there. Man is what makes half of the problems that are in the world today for instance if there was no smoking there wouldn't be as many cases of lung cancer in the world that there is now and if everyone ate proper food instead of the garbage that man makes there wouldn't be very many sick people that there are now in the world.
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
10 Mar 08
Food and smoking aren't the only causes of cancer. What about genetic predispostion to it. I'm healthy and my mom and I both have had ovarian cancer in our 30's. Last I checked we did nothing except get a disease. So there is no basis on that argument.
@CherBear04 (483)
• United States
7 Mar 08
I think the problem with stem cell research is not in the research itself, but more of what future problems it could cause. I agree with stem cell research to a degree - such as that found in embellical cords. But, if granted permission to do research on discarded fetus' or embryonic tissue what could potentially become of that? If they found a way that would be possible to cure people, they would be tempted to suggest people have more abortions for medical research or as a 'donation' to help sick people. Then embryos would be "bred" for the purpose of healing and I just think that is the morally opposing factor.
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
24 Mar 08
This is not a valid argument...they are being done anyway and my argument is why not do something instead of throwing tissue away..
@bradhart (659)
• United States
25 Mar 08
It is interesting that you would mention pro-lifers believing it is wrong to play god, because so many of advocate doing just that when they say we should heal the sick and injured. If god is responsible for the pregnancy, either by divine boning or deciding this was her time to become pregnant by another man, then god must also be responsible for injuries, ailments and birth defects that plague people through out their life. If it is wrong to interfere with gods plan for the pregnancy to be carried out, then it is wrong to treat the birth defects kids are born with, the injuries they get thorughout their lives from the bump on the head when they are learning to walk to car accident when they are a teenager to the broken hip when they are old, not to mention the heart disease, diabetes, osteoporosis, depression or other conditions so many older people get.
God is either responsible for your life and everything that happens to you or he isn't responsible for any of it in my opinion.
Furthermore if you can say well maybe he is and maybe he isn't how do you know which he is and isn't responsible for so you can take reasonable actions on the others?
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
27 Mar 08
For one, I don't believe there is a god responsible. In my opinion, a Christian god has superpowers that I have never experienced. If God is all powerful and all loving then why all the suffering in the world? To teach the world a lesson, that doesn't sound like love to me. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs but for me Christianity does not play a role in my life or my feeling on this issue.
That being said, do you take medicine when you are sick?? If you had cancer would you just let the disease take it's course because god will save you. I'm just trying to understand your position here. If you have taken so much as a Tylenol to treat a pain then this blows apart your whole argument.
I can never justify birth defects and disease that causes pain and suffering to be ok. I want a better healthier future for my children. I don't want future generations to suffer. I want humankind to go on because there is much good in this world. Good that people give to this world.
I can't condone because of god or anything else, that we should just let people suffer because that is "God's" way. That is just wrong on every level.
It's just ridiculous to think that research for something as important as disease should stop when computer technology advances at such high rates. I guess it just shows me what is important to society and what is wrong with it at the same time...
Thanks for your opinion though I can't agree in just letting people suffer.
@spanktastic2120 (172)
• United States
12 Mar 08
i dont believe in sanctity of life whatsoever, as far as im concerned life consists of electrical impulses shooting through brain cells causing conscious thought. therefor, there is no reason not to study these stem cells, the possibilities are almost endless, the stem cells contain usable forms of all the information to generate a human, this means we could even regrow limbs or enhance our current ones, or perhaps like flowers for algernon, increase brain functionality, and then maybe we wouldnt even need these embryos and fetuses to study. as for the christian arguments against abortion, i have this to offer. its a widely accepted fact that someone too young to know the difference between right and wrong, will go to heaven. so babies and small children who meet with unfortunate and untimely deaths, will go to heaven providing they have no understanding of right from wrong. this means aborting a child guarantees it a spot in heaven, whereas birthing and raising it provides a chance it will be damned to the depths of hell. so, if someone really loves their child, they will get it aborted.
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
13 Mar 08
That's a good point about Christianity. Though some Christians I have come across would argue that babies are born with sin. What?? How?? Needless to say I don't agree with them.
The possibilities are endless and suffering of all kinds could be alleviated or taken down a notch and that is worth it. The future of my children and their generations is at stake and that is worth fighting for. Great points about possibility- possibility that offers hope to many suffering!
People are going to get abortions regardless. It is legal and some choose to do it. It has been a fight since Roe V Wade and it isn't going away. Abortion was passed into law for a reason so let's get over that. But why throw away fetal tissue that can do so much good from an act that some view as heinous. Why can't something good come out of someone's choice- ultimately for most women the hardest choice they have ever made. The fact that this fetal tissue is just thrown away is appalling so why not make it legal to use it?
Thanks for stopping by!
