When sience and religion don't agree
By addysmum
@addysmum (1225)
Canada
August 10, 2008 10:35am CST
I am recently ordained and I am working on becoming an inter-faith minister, meaning that I will be able to offer services out side of my faith for those in need. One thing I find myself struggling with is when scientific evidence doesn't agree with religion. This struggle is made more evident in my life right now as I am struggling with the inevitable end of a long friendship. My friend has become a Christian and is using her new faith to attack my faith from every angle and it is putting a large strain on our relationship. Many times in the last year she has ended the friendship then come back asking for me to continue being her friend. The latest attack occurred when she returned from bible camp. I called her to see how camp was and if she enjoyed herself, she started right away on how EVERYONE is decedents of Israel and that Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel. It was one of the most frustrating conversations I have had. She refused to hear anything outside of her new ideas and despite the time frame not fitting her ideas she told me I was wrong. I find this kind of idealism very frustrating to deal with not just in Christians but in every religion. If you can prove otherwise with science or other honest facts then you are wrong and allowing evil in and we just have to have faith that the God inspired word of man is completely 100% right. But when they can't prove with honest facts that which they believe then it is a matter of faith and those who believe others wise don't have faith. I know that this friendship is over but for the sake of the amount of years we have together I have tried to hold onto it, but in reality this discussion is not about that it is about trying to bring about balance and understanding of balance. Balance means that we realize that God (insert the name you use here for the Divine) is real, or not real for those who don't believe, and that we move with in our own concept of the divine. That the words in books are wonderful and in many cases fact based but after 3000 years not the same as when they were first written. That with the emergence of science and understanding of universal structure we can look further back then our ancestors could imagine showing a clear history beyond that in religious books. Eventually these two things need to look at each other and acknowledge that there is a correlation and that while religion is correct about somethings there is truth outside of the limited understanding of the people who wrote those books. For example dinosaurs, human evolution, animal evolution. All facts, all proven to be a real event in the history of the Earth.
Why is it that people cannot acknowledge that others faiths are just as valid as their own and that while their religious books are as honest as the people that wrote them there are facts missing that couldn't have been understood or even thought of in the time that it was written?
3 people like this
7 responses
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
10 Aug 08
Personally, I see these old-time religions as primitive and irrelevant to modern humans.
That said, I recently read something written by a Christian biologist who says he went to church with exactly this on his mind, and he came to the conclusion that the Bible's content was oversimplified for the ancient people of its time, and that in the modern day, it is now okay to use the ingenious scientific method to further our knowledge beyond its bounds.
So maybe you can use that reasoning to encourage people not to be Biblical literalists, which I understand is just as frustrating to atheists (like me) as it is to the majority of religious, Christian and not.
2 people like this
@santuccie (3384)
• United States
11 Aug 08
I totally agree with this. It was frustrating to me as long as I clung to it. And since I let go of Biblical literalism, I don't seem to be getting any further out of touch with Whoever/Whatever it is that answers my prayers. Quite the contrary, my "abilities" seem to be getting stronger.
As knowledge advances, both society and doctrine tend to become more liberal. Likewise, the more we know about both science and the metaphysical, the less rigid our positions seem to become. I'm joining a Bible survey class not because I take scripture literally, but because I am aware of the indefensibility of contempt prior to investigation.
1 person likes this
@addysmum (1225)
• Canada
11 Aug 08
Beautifully said the both of you. I couldn't agree more that as our ideas of time rolls on we grow and develop a fuller understanding of the universe. I find peoples lack of willingness to understand differences frustrating. It is like when a person takes a course on another faith put on by their own group, how are they to learn anything about the other group. You have to go to the other group and develop a relationship to fully learn about them, not just learn the ideas that your group has formulated.
1 person likes this
@addysmum (1225)
• Canada
11 Aug 08
No she is not Mormon. What she is is confused. She was lacking in Spirit when she became mentally ill; during this illness she thought she was under attack by Satan and turned to God. Now she is grasping at bit of information trying to make sense of her path. She is Baptist but read a book on "cults" and picked up on this bit of information from Mr. Smith and took it as being what she was supposed to believe. I am worried for her in that any bit of information that she takes in right now sticks to her like it was truth. While that in itself doesn't worry me it is her taking of this information and twisting it in her still ill mind that makes it so dangerous for her. Not dangerous physically but emotionally because there is so much conflicting information she will only serve to confuse herself and loss her path. Thank you for the post.
1 person likes this
@addysmum (1225)
• Canada
14 Oct 08
Sorry for the late response. I totally agree with you. I have stepped back from her and left this all behind me. The other day she just showed up with her kids walked into my house and stayed even after being told I was going out and talked God the whole time. She drives me nuts, but I just canceled my home phone and didn't give her the new number so I am hoping she will back off a bit.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (63235)
• United States
11 Aug 08
I understand that she's a friend, but there are times when you have to back off from friendships and hope they can work out their lives. This sounds like one of those cases to me. But then again, I believe in letting people fail if they persist in false ideas.
1 person likes this
@revdauphinee (5703)
• United States
10 Aug 08
the fact is that when one attempts to fit God into our man made time it never works for scripture clearly tells us in
2nd Peter 3: 8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
so even a 7 day creation could actualy take 7 thousand years in his time we can never apply human time to God!
@revdauphinee (5703)
• United States
11 Aug 08
thank you so much for your comment
1 person likes this
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
10 Aug 08
This does not work logically. The same Hebrew word is used in Genesis as is used in tons of other places in the Bible referring to a 24-hour day. Besides, Genesis itself describes one morning and one evening passing. That's one day.
I find the day-age rationalization to be especially weak and 'desperate' in a way.
2 people like this
@manojjonam10 (350)
• India
10 Aug 08
well, i personally consider religion as a form of science which deals with infinity, when science and religion don't agree there might be a problem in the theory explained or may be religion doesn't say about that
@littleowl (7157)
•
11 Aug 08
Hi addy-I am a pagan and spiritualist...as a pagan I believe in my Gods and goddesses and know that they are always there paganism was around a long time before christianity and were closer to the earths natural healing herbs and plants etc they were probably the first doctors and nurses there were but as we worship at certain times of the year you also have to know that christians came along and started to use our times of worship and the names of our gods and goddesses eg: Easter is in our Faith the goddess Eostre, Halloween is All Saints Day to christians but is Samhain to our faith so it goes on, but looking at it another way our gods and godesses all are one Divine Spirit
As a spiritualist it changes nothing and we call upon the Divine Power/Spirit in our prayers as spirit is one but still Divine the correlation between all faiths is that God/The Divine Power or Spirit is the creator of all...I hope in some way this makes some sense to you and is one sort of help in what you were asking for-your friend littleowl
1 person likes this
@littleowl (7157)
•
11 Aug 08
Hi Addy I too was brought up as a christian but decided that it really wasn't the path for me even after living in a christian community when I came away there was always a knowing of a higher spiritual power then I found the pagan way that if you like opened my eyes to everything beautiful and have been happy with but also I have the gift of mediumship and that is another path I am going which is the spiritual side of me but at times I feel that side of me means more but am happy with that...am glad we can relate it is nice to know how we tend to meet people like-minded on here bright blessings littleowl
1 person likes this
@Gargoyle0134 (1257)
• United States
10 Aug 08
In the end..it appears that all humans originated somewhere in eastern Africa? Native Americans immigrated here before others..but they ae immigrants like the rest of us. Israel or not, all came from Africa. The Gypsies/Roma people originated in India. It doesn't matter now. -Here we are, right?!
Science and religion can peacefully exist. -No matter where humans forst originated..isn't it true there must have been something big/some cosmic or supernatural force that started us all? It's "cool!"
1 person likes this
@addysmum (1225)
• Canada
10 Aug 08
Yes, you are correct the oldest human ancestor remains where found in Kenya I believe. I personally live a very balanced life of science and spiritual beliefs. There is a place for it all. I feel that science should be able to explain the spiritual and the spiritual should be able to explain science and if they can't then we just haven't found the solution yet. Thank you for your response.
@Harley009 (1416)
• India
12 Aug 08
hmm she is crazy... Friendship is friendship, if both of your ideologies differ it should not effect the friendship. You all can discuss the matter healthily and with proofs, not just to end the friendship. Myself a Muslim and If I do in such a way all my Christian and Hindu friends will leave me, but sometime I had discussed about religions to them as well but it is not forcing our belief to them, just inform them about it and to them is their choice.
I can't accept everything is true, but we need to respect other religious beliefs as well. Understand different cultures and belief systems will improve our tolerance.
@addysmum (1225)
• Canada
14 Oct 08
You are right it shouldn't effect our friendship but with her right now it is her way of believing or nothing. She is going through what many people go through when they find faith in God. Only that which she has learned from the minister is correct because he knows God. For me I have been on my path for a while and I have learned that many aspects of every religion is correct.
