Why Lucifer can't benefit from Redemption?

@Khayam (346)
Romania
November 26, 2008 7:25pm CST
God equally loves his creation. This is what Christianity says. He "loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believs in him shall not perish but have eternal life". Shortly, this translates: You believe in Jesus, you are saved from eternal damnation. But, Lucifer and all other fallen angels are also God's creation (not from clay, but from fire). Why there is an Armageddon between God and evil, instead of God offering Lucifer a second chance, since God equally loves all his creations?
1 person likes this
8 responses
@jedimind (200)
• Singapore
29 Nov 08
the question you should be asking is, does Lucifer want to be saved? being saved means he has to stop whatever evil he's doing. Does he want to do that? i don't think so. i think he wants to continue to be against God, and therefore he doesn't want to be saved
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
27 Nov 08
Hi khayam, Where in the Bible do you find that Lucifer and his angels are God's creation from fire? I have never heard that said before and would like to know the source. I do not take the Bible literally but find much that is good in it, especially the teachings of Jesus. Blessings.
27 Nov 08
It is taken from the Hebrew, The name Lucifer in Hebrew is 'Haliel Ben Shachar", literally translated as son of the morning.But other names have been given. In the Genesis story he is possibly the 'serpent'. The word serpent here though has a possible alternative as it can be translated as "the shinning one", and the root of this word is used as well as brazen, or fiery, as in fiery serpent. Lucifer or Haliel is NOT an angel though, as angel is translated from the word 'Malachim', Lucifer is referenced along with the words "beni Elohim" or 'Sons of God'. In job you will read when God created the universe, when the 'sons of god shouted for joy, and the morning stars sang. Some will argue he was an arch angel, but this is simply not true. He was over the angels and arch angels, he was a shinning one, a Son of God.
27 Nov 08
Yes there is as I have sited
• United States
27 Nov 08
No, you didn't cite one single verse from the Bible. There is nothing in the Bible that supports your assertion that angels, or Lucifer, were created from fire. His name meaning "shining" does not mean he was created from fire!
• United States
27 Nov 08
First, where in the Bible does it say that God loves His entire Creation equally? It doesn't say that! I don't mean to say He doesn't love angels, but it never says anything about Him loving all His creation equally. In fact, Jesus said that God loves all His creation, even a tiny sparrow that falls from the tree does not go unnoticed or uncared about by God, yet "So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows." Matthew 10:31 This shows that your original premise could be wrong. Second, Lucifer, now Satan, was in Heaven with God. He knew God directly, and still rebelled -- and has tried to deceive other angels as well as all people since our creation. All this while knowing God, and knowing also that he really cannot win against God. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that any angel has a chance for salvation: the angels in Heaven have no need of salvation, and Satan and his followers have no desire for salvation. And last, the Bible teaches that even the angels have longed to look into the mystery of salvation: "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into." 1 Peter 1:12 God has a special relationship with humans, and that is clear from studying the Bible, carefully, from start to finish, with your mind open to God to give you understanding of it.
• United States
27 Nov 08
I meant to also say, the Bible says that Satan and his fallen angels (demons, now) do believe, and tremble (with fear) SO it is known that Satan believes, but still doesn't accept God's authority; he believes, yet he is still rebellious. So, believing is not all you need for salvation: it has to be a belief that causes action; acceptance of Jesus as Lord of all.
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
27 Nov 08
Can you please offer me the Biblical refference where I can find details about Lucifer's rebellion?
27 Nov 08
You are operating under the assumption that God has not offered a second chance to him or is willing to forgive him. It could happen, but it won't because "Lucifer" is too proud and believes he can win and be like God. This is why it would not happen, not because God would not allow him to repent, he could do it right now, but he won't.
@SeishiroX (1093)
• Philippines
27 Nov 08
I believe that's where we, as humans, get the attitude of pride from. I guess even the higher beings have that.
@SeishiroX (1093)
• Philippines
27 Nov 08
I daresay our heavenly father has given Lucifer a chance to repent. I'd like to draw on an analogy. Most of us believe the prisons are places for the unlawful to be restrained in, and to be kept to protect society from their ways. However, it actually does not work that way. Inmates who have a proven good track record are usually paroled early, despite what they have done. It could be said that the prison is a place for the bad and evil to rehabilitate themselves and, in this context, repent. Now, here is where I apply this analogy. If you have read the book of Revelation, you will find in Rev 20:7-9 (New American Bible) that "[when] the thousand years have passed, Satan will be released from his prison. He will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the Earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them to battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. They invaded the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city." It could be said that God imprisoned Satan for 1000 years to give him a chance to repent but, like everyone said, he's too proud and probably brazen to accept that and instead he continued waging war against God (whatever name you'd want to call Him) and the faithful.
@remrick (202)
• Philippines
29 Nov 08
as to your first question khayam, i don't know the answer if there was evil before Lucifer's fall... for the second question, is there free will if we are punished for choosing evil? then the answer is yes. free will, as such is attributed to creatures possessing intellect, is not absolute. there will always be consequences for our choices and we are not free to do everything we want. absolute free will belongs only to god. think about it, even if there were no consequences for our actions, we still not be have absolutely free will because we do not have the capability to do everything that we willed. only god can do that... :)
@Khayam (346)
• Romania
27 Nov 08
I will answer here, although i might create a topic from discussion from this answer. I think it deserves to be developed by adding value through good comments. Many of you mention that God gave free will to humans and, prior to that, to angels. But how could Lucifer choose evil, when before that Evil didn't existed? And if the non-believers are punished for their choice, is there a free-will?
@remrick (202)
• Philippines
27 Nov 08
My opinion is that Lucifer had no excuse to sin, he was created perfect, possessing knowledge of good and evil and of God's will. Man, on the other hand, had no prior knowledge of good and evil, and was tempted by Satan to seek that knowledge by eating of the fruit of the tree.
@remrick (202)
• Philippines
27 Nov 08
and besides, lucifer would probably never repent anyway even if he could be forgiven... for a person who willed to exalt himself above God, he most probably would never think of repentance...
• United States
27 Nov 08
Lucifer was the highest angel, and attempted to exalt himself above God. So God gave him a place as the king of liars. If Lucifer were to admit to God that he is the father of lies and ask forgiveness and accept Christ, God would forgive him.
@oyenkai (4394)
• Philippines
27 Nov 08
I agree with OutSideIn's #2 point. Redemption is available to all, but has to be claimed.
• United States
27 Nov 08
Actually, to go along further with your analogy, a drowning person will often fight his rescuer, not so much on purpose, but out of panic -- making it hard to save a drowning person. Often that is sort of the case when someone is "drowning" in sin -- it's not that God won't rescue them, it's that they have to calm down and stop the fighting before they are able to hear God's word.