Finding another use for our deserted churches
By topffer
@topffer (42156)
France
April 1, 2018 7:30am CST
Although there is a significant mass attendance on important Christian festivals like Easter, we should not bury our heads in the sand, the Catholic Church has a serious mass attendance problem and many churches are desert on a normal Sunday. There is also a lack of priests, and in France it is not rare in the countryside to find only 1 priest in charge for 5 or more parishes. In this case, the mass is held alternately, which result often in less than an hour of use per month and per church.
So, what can be done ? In La Rochelle, a Protestant city that dearly paid to stay Protestant (28000 persons died during the siege of the city in the beginning of the 17th C) the Catholic bishop has decided to experiment something new : every Sunday, after the morning mass starting at 11 am, some tables and folding chairs stocked in the large sacristy of the cathedral are installed and a lunch prepared by the community of the Sisters of the Charity is served. The goal is to strengthen the bonds between the participants who are welcomed to invite their friends, Catholics or not (a pre-registration is required). Maybe some of them will come to attend the Sunday mass before the lunch ?
Hence, each Sunday, the cathedral of La Rochelle is converted to be used as a restaurant. It looks like a promising way to explore. Many little communes have not a festival hall but any commune has a church. Why not opening it for a wedding meal, or a charity lotto, or use them during the week as a canteen for the local public servants ? Many churches are often used as a concert hall for classical music, but many would be also large enough to be used as a sports hall : we can imagine removable backboards with the public in the upper galleries, although some arrangements would have to be done to follow safety standards.
What do you think about converting churches when they are not used to restaurants or sports halls ? Or something else ?
Photo : a lunch served in the cathedral of La Rochelle.
NB : The restaurant is closed today. It was opened only to celebrate together Easter Sunday and Fool's Day. If you responded to this discussion, you have been fooled
. I will give an explanation of the photo in another discussion.
. I will give an explanation of the photo in another discussion.15 people like this
17 responses
@topffer (42156)
• France
1 Apr 18
I was not expecting you on this discussion
. I have not lunched there so I cannot tell. I suppose the quality of the meal depends of the budget allocated for it. I remember that after a few years of college I could not eat anymore in a "normal" college canteen. The price was very cheap at the time, less than 5 Francs, but the food served for this amount not good at all. There was one offering decent meals for 10 Francs though, where I took my meals when I was preparing my PhD.
. I have not lunched there so I cannot tell. I suppose the quality of the meal depends of the budget allocated for it. I remember that after a few years of college I could not eat anymore in a "normal" college canteen. The price was very cheap at the time, less than 5 Francs, but the food served for this amount not good at all. There was one offering decent meals for 10 Francs though, where I took my meals when I was preparing my PhD.5 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
1 Apr 18
@LadyDuck They had probably the same provider than my father. After he retired he decided to become the mayor of his native village, was elected and started to do his shopping there. There was only one butcher in this place, but he had probably not voted for him, and was happy to serve him only meat from 100 years old cows. It was inedible.
. After he retired he decided to become the mayor of his native village, was elected and started to do his shopping there. There was only one butcher in this place, but he had probably not voted for him, and was happy to serve him only meat from 100 years old cows. It was inedible.2 people like this
@JohnRoberts (109857)
• Los Angeles, California
1 Apr 18
Many churches here have "rentals" to generate income.
3 people like this
@vandana7 (98989)
• India
2 Apr 18
@topffer Yeah sort of...I think there is a word for it, I can't seem to recall.
I am fine with place of worship being used as marriage and other ritual ceremony hall. I am not sure I am ok with it being treated as a restaurant.
For starters, it destroys the solemnity and silence that a chapel or church imports.
Soon people would only be there to eat, not to worship.
I would rather it be a solution center. Like people be asked to offer their services to the community on one day. If there is a lawyer, he can be asked to counsel, if there is a doctor, he can help too. If there is a priest, he can try to clarify conflict in mind, and some nuns can help to guide youngsters.
Consider me old fashioned, but visit to a place of worship, whichever one it is, helps to feel fresh. I don't want to be eating there, and discussing how somebody who came to my home the first time asked me to adopt him and his family. Or many other gross things that my mind can come up with looking at some food. So that seems a futile exercise.
1 person likes this
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@much2say (53944)
• Los Angeles, California
1 Apr 18
I would think many of the churches there are historical - "very old" anyway. I hope they can find a practical use for that space!
Here, at least locally, I am told by mother in law that church attendance had been low - a bunch of old folks as she said, less families and young people. Hubby was just telling me the other day how his church used to be thriving and filled to the rim when he was growing up - not the case now apparently. In recent years the church was renting itself out to other cultural/religious communities (I did not understand why it could not be one whole church community - it literally was separated by cultures) - they were desperate as the financial situation had not been good. The church definitely had space and perfect for sound/music, but with all the food and venues around here, no one would probably make use of it - unless it were super cheap. At the end of last year, the church had to be sold (not sure of the details) - mother in law and company had to "move" to another church a few miles down. What a shame as it was one of the bigger churches - and beautiful too.
Out here also, there are many "churches" that are in buildings along with other shops and services . . . I know of a couple theaters, a big electronics store, and the hospital where I was born that were converted into places of religion . . . and there are many more non-traditional church places like that. Perhaps it's a bit odd, but that's the way it is these days. I suppose it's easier for them to create meeting spaces for whatever - it doesn't look at all like a church.
1 person likes this
@much2say (53944)
• Los Angeles, California
4 Apr 18
@topffer I asked Hubby the other day what he thought of that time we saw the musicians there . . . he actually said he didn't mind it at all. However his father had already passed on - I don't know what "he" would have thought. They are Lutheran (Christian), but I think they went through several churches before calling this one home. My mother in law is Jewish, but converted to Christianity after marriage. They are artists and musicians as well, possibly more open than most people there - maybe they don't mind it. These modern generation changes happened only in recent years - out with the old, in with the new . . . there are less and less of the original, now senior, generation of folks left going to this church.
Maybe there is no Bistro de La Cathédrale, yet, but it sounds like it would fit in well since there are already many other bistros !
!1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
2 Apr 18
I am a bit ashamed, as you took the time to write a very long and interesting response. I have never seen here a hospital or a theater converted into a church and did not knew that it was existing.
It is already 2 am here, so I think I can tell you before going to bed that this discussion was a fool's day joke
. As it was Easter and Fool's day together, which is something not happening often (last time was in 1956), I thought at starting a discussion about religion as a Fool's day joke this morning. I believed that the baroque ideas of converting a cathedral to a restaurant after Sunday mass and the proposal of converting churches to sports halls would set off alarm bells for some members, especially if the discussion was started on April 1st, but it did not happened. I could have added a stripper but it would not have been decent in a cathedral, so I added some nuns serving the lunch. I will give tomorrow the explanation for this weird photo that I really took in the cathedral of La Rochelle.
. As it was Easter and Fool's day together, which is something not happening often (last time was in 1956), I thought at starting a discussion about religion as a Fool's day joke this morning. I believed that the baroque ideas of converting a cathedral to a restaurant after Sunday mass and the proposal of converting churches to sports halls would set off alarm bells for some members, especially if the discussion was started on April 1st, but it did not happened. I could have added a stripper but it would not have been decent in a cathedral, so I added some nuns serving the lunch. I will give tomorrow the explanation for this weird photo that I really took in the cathedral of La Rochelle.1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Apr 18
@much2say I read that it was more closed of reality than I would have thought, even real for a few churches in the world, so it was not a very good Fool's Day joke.
What is the religion of your husband ? I ask because of the electric guitars and drums. I remember to have seen when I was a teen electric guitars in Catholic churches. Then a Pope decided that a church was not a place for this kind of music. They are opened to classical music concerts, but often the bishop of the Diocese asks now to have at least 1 religious piece of music during the concert, which is not difficult when it comes to classical music.
La Rochelle is a sea port and there are a lot of bistros with a lot of sailors during the night. There is even a bar converted to a museum : it was the bar of the officers of the German submarine base. It is in a bunker and has kept all its decoration from the time (the decorators were two women who decorated many German military bases, and later worked for the British army), which seems to be unique now. But there is not yet a Bistro de La Cathédrale.
. There is even a bar converted to a museum : it was the bar of the officers of the German submarine base. It is in a bunker and has kept all its decoration from the time (the decorators were two women who decorated many German military bases, and later worked for the British army), which seems to be unique now. But there is not yet a Bistro de La Cathédrale.1 person likes this
@allknowing (130176)
• India
2 Apr 18
Those churches in Paris that I visited are tourist attractions. May be they could be done up to attract more tourists by having activities outside the churches.
1 person likes this
@allen0187 (58444)
• Philippines
2 Apr 18
Very interesting.
It is a unique way to bring people to hear Mass.
1 person likes this
@CaptAlbertWhisker (32507)
• Calgary, Alberta
1 Apr 18
or they can fill them by converting refugees. That is the strategy of German churches.
I have a cousin who works at Belgium and she told me the church there was kept alive by the small Filipino community since they remain religious even in westernized societies.
I am raised from the strictest Christian sects ever, They have attendance cards for members and people who goes against the rules will be exiled from the religion. I got exiled for living in with my ex-fiancee when we are not married. That religion is so strict, They are not afraid of exiling members because they have a good conversion system.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
1 Apr 18
For what I read, in France the number of people converting to Roman Catholics every year is approximately the same than the number of people converting to Islam, but it is difficult to tell as there are no real statistics available for Muslims.
Some western countries are more religious than others. There is a church in my city where half of the mass is said in Portuguese. Like Spanish, Portuguese are more religious than French.
@CaptAlbertWhisker (32507)
• Calgary, Alberta
1 Apr 18
@topffer I am not Atheist since I have some spiritual experiences and I do believe a higher power exist but I don't have a religion anymore. Organize religion is just not my thing. I was born to it but it is not for me.
I use to be active in church but certain life experiences just changed me.
1 person likes this
@sabtraversa (13038)
• Italy
1 Apr 18
Some people would just prefer to demolish them, but I think most churches are plain artworks and could work as museums, just like it happens here. I'm not a Catholic but I like to visit churches to see the sculptures and paintings. I would love a Black Metal concert, but Classical is fine too. 
I also see it as a way to convert people, but it isn't wrong, they aren't forcing anybody to have meals or sport activities in their churches, just giving an incentive.
I also see it as a way to convert people, but it isn't wrong, they aren't forcing anybody to have meals or sport activities in their churches, just giving an incentive.1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
1 Apr 18
There was rock music in churches until a Pope decided in the 1970's that it was not convenient.
I also like to visit churches. Many churches here have lost their wall hangings, paintings and sculptures in the 1960's when some priests decided that the Church had to be poor and to show it. Fortunately it could not be done for protected paintings and sculptures, or we would see only blank walls today. It is a bit stupid : during the Middle Age all churches were painted with many wall fresco. Sometimes even the facade was painted/colored.
1 person likes this
@pgntwo (22408)
• Derry, Northern Ireland
3 Apr 18
Haha, good one. If pasta is served in this establishment, is it grown on the spaghetti tree flourishing in the back courtyard...?
Open main menu Search Photograph of a woman harvesting spaghetti in the BBC programme The spaghetti-tree hoax was a three-minute hoax report broadcast on April Fools' Day 1957 by the BBC current-affairs programme Panorama, purportedly showing a family in s
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 Apr 18
I did not knew this spaghetti-tree but I am not surprised that many people felt in the trap. I have a little engraving in a 17th C book of a tree in Africa growing potteries, so why not spaghetti ? Maybe the Swiss spaghetti-tree has disappeared since 1957, like the mermaids seen by many sailors and travelers until the end of the 18th C ?
It was a good Fool's Day joke
?
It was a good Fool's Day joke1 person likes this
@Daelii (5619)
• United States
5 Apr 18
That's great! Churches should be open and used during the week to feed the community and support spiritual growth! Teach crafts and make things for those in need.
One of my siblings rented a place for a while that use to be a church. It converted into a cute little home even if the bedrooms were awkward to get to ! Lol
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
5 Apr 18
This discussion was a Fool's Day Joke, but I learned that a few Catholic churches were doing it, at least in Italy and Australia. I am not old school but I believe that the "new evangelization" should have some limits and that a consecrated church is not a place for a lunch.
I have seen churches for sale in UK, it is rare here because all churches built before 1905 are belonging, not to the church, but to the communes. However many abbeys had been sold during the French Revolution and I resided during a month in one of them, converted to a hotel. The architecture had been kept intact and I was lodged in a nun's bedroom from the 17th C, except that the furniture were modern and the room had the phone and a magnetic lock opening with a card
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@BarBaraPrz (45597)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
1 Apr 18
Most churches over here have basements that are used for such things as AA meetings or Scouts, etc. Only concerts would be held in the church proper. Decommissioned churces have been turned into pubs or stores, even condos.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
1 Apr 18
I have seen that in UK, it is very rare when a church is decommissioned in France : all the churches built before 1905 are belonging to the communes, most of them have been classified as historical monuments to get some funds from the state when they need to be repaired (the bill would often be too important for small communes), and an historical monument cannot be modified.
1 person likes this
@MrsPumpkins (466)
• Philippines
1 Apr 18
My response is out of the topic,but i am saddened to hear that there were few priests left in your place, or in the world. Luckily, I have three sons, I hope, if not all, maybe even just one of them will become a priest one day.
1 person likes this
