Evolution, why can't we be friends?

I'm not your AVERAGE Christian. Did you read my post above?

From a Christian - wonderfully put post!!

From an agnostic - thank you very much, its not often I am complimented on a post about religion by a Christian.

Evolution by definition is an natural undirected process. Therefore if it's undirected, God can't be directing it. The two concepts simply don't correlate. There's no reason to believe that life evolved anyway. The only evolution that there is actual proof for is micro evolution which is just changes withing a species. Everything else is speculation and where the debate lies.

Take a species. Start making small, very small and slow physical changes to it. Then another change. And another. And yet another. And another one. Keep doing that for thousands, millions of years. You'll reach a point where the species has changed so much that it can be considered a different species. If you have already admitted that evolutionary changes DO take place, why would you invent this arbitrary, imaginary limit that says that at a certain point changes would stop, when there is absolutely no biological reason for these changes to stop?

This is an excellent example of the misinformed calling fundamentalists misinformed. Micro evolution(changes within species) is due to re- arrangement of EXISTING alleles, or degenerative changes. It does NOT require the generation of anything remotely like such net increases in genetic information as would give rise to an entirely new species in any amount of time. Instead EXISTING information is exchanged, activated,deactivated and even damaged and corrupted, among organism of a population. Macroevolution (one species evolving into entirely new species) requires the formation of new, complex, information laden genes. It has as its official mechanism random mutation and natural selection. "As a Darwinian, I wish to defend Goldschmidt's postulate postulate that macroevolution is not simply microevolution extrapolated." -Gould, Stephen Jay, "The Return of Hopeful Monsters," Natural History, vol 86 (June/July 1977)p. 24 "The central question at the Chicago conference was whether mechanisms underlying microevolution could be extrapolated to explain the phenomena of macroevolution. At the risk of doing violence of the position of some of the people at the meeting, the answer can be given as a clear, No." - Lewin, Roger, "Evolutionary Theory Under Fire," Science, vol 210 (November 21, 1980) p. 883 Now do these guys sound like Bible fundamentalists to you? Did you see any scriptures quoted here? It's time to stop misrepresenting the debate and open your book up to chapter "Get a clue first"!

The only reality of evolution is changes within a species not one species evolving into an entirely new species. Therefore, evolution poses no challenge whatsoever. Most people who constantly talk about the "evidence" of evolution don't have a clue what the "evidence" really is. It's just grand standing on their part to protect their ideology. (98% ideology / 2% knowledge)

Keegansmommy - I agree with you. A lifetime to us is just seconds to God. He is an eternal being so time matters not to him.

Owens - when God created the earth a day could be anything he chose it to mean. Think about this - in Alaska they have MONTHS where the sun doesn't set and MONTHS that it doesn't rise. So are those months a day and a night?

Because God defines day by saying " the morning and evening were the first day"

fargale, I do believe in God. I think no matter what... humans can't exceed God. Well, it sounds silly, doesn't it? Because many people don't believe that God is exist. Your explanation about vacuum space and the shapes of planets can be reasonable. But please let me ask you... can God create the planets without the shapes of round (but the shapes of square, for instance)? I believe He can if He wants it. If it was exist, wouldn't we have found the theory that would support the shapes of square? What God has created must have a reasonable result and effect. Otherwise, it will be weird for us because God has created us with brains in order to solve complicated things. For instance, as we know that Rainbow is a God's promise to Noah so that God won't cover the entire earth with water. But scientists have a resonable explanation why rainbow happens.

The earth, in fact, is not perfectly round. It isn't a perfect sphere, but it comes close to that - it's just a little flattened at the poles and bulges a little in the equator, all due to the constant movement of rotation. The reason planets (and other spacial objects) tend to take spherical shapes is easily explained by science, without needing to invoke the concept of a god in the explanation: our good ol' Gravity does the job pretty well. If you have a lump of mass in the vacuum of space, it will tend to take a spherical shape, because it attracts itself towards its center due to its own gravity.

friendship, please take a look at the first page of this discussion. I've just posted an answer for your comment but I mistakenly put it in the previous page, sorry. Just do a Ctrl+F for 'friendship' in the previous page and you'll find it.

Oh brother! Please substantiate with evidence!

Oh brother to you! If you don't believe me then start doing some research. I do not make things up to try to prove my point. If you choose not to believe things that is your problem not mine. I am not trying to be rude or anything like that; but I don't appreciate your tone toward me. You have your own ideas and do not want to look at anything that contradicts those ideas. Yes you will have to look at scientific texts to prove what I said about seeing in the dark, teeth etc, but it is true. In FACT I actually heard about this listening to a Christian on Christian radio. I then researched it and found it to be true. I will give you a tiny bit here with seeing in the dark- cave paintings in areas of the cave where no natural light gets to. Yes arguements can be made that they used fire for light. Thing is fire leaves soot and other residue on the cave walls. Residue that isn't there. So if they could not see in the dark how did they do the cave painting? Now please stop argueing with me; the proof is available to anyone who wants to research it. Take the time and so so.

What you're describing is adaptation. Even contemporary man adapts to its enviroment such as thicker skin depending on the climate; bears grow thicker fur, etc. There still the same species i.e no evolution in the Darwinian sense. Can you point out where you found your information? I'm thinking the cave men may have had something to illuminate the walls or maybe there were fissures in the cave that have since been sealed.

I'm a bible believing Christian and I have to tell you that I don't agree with "if it isn't in the bible it doesn't exist". There are lots of things that are not in the bible that clearly exist... dinosaurs, cars, computers. God gave us the information we needed to live good lives and to live as he thinks is best for us. He didn't need to tell us everything about everything.

Yeah, but that's different from God saying that it happened one way and man saying it happened another way. The Bible talks about the origin of life and how it came about; it doesn't talk about the origin of cars and computers so I think your comparisons are somewhat out of place.

brandi_girl_16 : I just read your 3th sentance and had to stop reading. Where do you take the theory that evolution theory claim that humans develop from ape!!! Certainly not from the biology lessons. Is that what your church is teaching you about Evolution? I am happy for you to have so strong faith and hope that you use it for doing good, but pleas educate youself about any theory if you are going to say what it says.

Then I guess the computer you just wrote that on isn't real cause it isn't in the bible? I am a bible believing Christian but cannot agree with what you just said.

Exactly and the poster said that if it isn't in the bible it isn't real. I was just making a point that just because it is not in the bible does not make it unreal.

Again, God does mentions the creation of man and the origin of life. He doesn't mention the creation of the computer.