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The "Notorious" Malleus Maleficarum   email this discussion to a friend?

myLot reputation of 98/100. pyewacket (12221)   ranked 1 out of 160 in wicca 5 years ago

Since I recently did a discussion about the modern day witch burning in India that was in the news...it got me to thinking about mankinds' fears about witchcraft in general...Now from what I understand "witch hunts" are still alive and well in India, Africa and many Asian countries despite this being the 21st century. But peoples fears about witchcraft isn't limited of course to these areas of the world ... even in highly developed countries and nations there still are fears. Can it be that these fears are still stemmed from the most infamous book written of all time?
The Malleus Maleficarum or "The Witches Hammer" was written in 1496 and was in effect a "guideline" in how to distinguish a witch and listed a variety of barbaric tortures to test a witch...if the person "passed" they weren't a witch..but of course some of these tests were so brutal that the person died as a result.
There's a few excellent links about this "notorious" book...
http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum
I do want to place a few quotes from the first link ....
"While the Malleus itself cannot be blamed for the Inquisition or the horrors inflicted upon mankind by the Inquisitors, it certainly played an important role. Thus has it been said that The Malleus Maleficarum is one of the most blood-soaked works in human history, in that its very existence reinforced and validated Catholic beliefs which led to the prosecution, torture, and murder, of tens of thousands of innocent people.
It served as a guidebook for Inquisitors during the Inquisition, and was designed to aid them in the identification, prosecution, and dispatching of Witches. It set forth, as well, many of the modern misconceptions and fears concerning witches and the influence of witchcraft. The questions, definitions, and accusations it set forth in regard to witches, which were reinforced by its use during the Inquisition, came to be widely regarded as irrefutable truth. Those beliefs are held even today by a majority of Christians in regard to practitioners of the modern “revived” religion of Witchcraft, or Wicca. And while the Malleus itself is largely unknown in modern times, its effects have proved long lasting."I found that last line to be particularly interesting... So is it possible, that the influence of this book is felt even now, and why people still fear those who follow the wicca/pagan path of life...why people still fear witchcraft in general?


Malleus Maleficarum
 

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wdkptr (487) response was accepted on 5/12/2007.
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tags:  witch hunts, afi, ancient stories of witchcraft, burning times, ignorance
 
1. myLot reputation of 99/100. sumofalltears (2673)   5 years ago

People have a tendency to fear anything they don't fully understand. And with all the supersticions and stuff surrounding witchcraft it makes people afraid to learn about it. People have a natural fear of being contaminated by the unknown, instead of seeking answers they stick their head in the sand leaving their tailfeathers to be ripped out. Not a smart thing to do, but that is human nature for you.

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2. myLot reputation of 98/100. emeraldisle (8959)   5 years ago

I'm sure that it laid the ground work for all that everyone believes today about witches or pagans. It's the old beliefs of them that people still believe today. Then you add in the hype from Hollywood and you can see why some believe the way they do. They don't bother to find out of any of that is real. They just go by what they have heard. They believe it blindly. The worst thing is if it was about their own religion they would immedietly try to change public opinion but when it comes to other people's religion they don't care.

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3. myLot reputation of 98/100. emeraldisle (8959)   5 years ago

I'm sure that it laid the ground work for all that everyone believes today about witches or pagans. The whole time of the inquisition did that. It's the old beliefs of them that people still believe today. Then you add in the hype from Hollywood and you can see why some believe the way they do. They don't bother to find out of any of that is real. They just go by what they have heard. I'm not talking about people who aren't educated either. Some are very intelligent, are professions, or similar and yet they blindly


myLot reputation of 98/100. emeraldisle (8959)  5 years ago

mylot doesn't like me tonight. First it eats it and I go to repost and it only posts half of it. I give up :(


myLot reputation of 98/100. pyewacket (12221)   ranked 1 out of 160 in wicca  5 years ago

That's okay---i've had strange gliches too...ever get busy typing out a really long post to something and right in the middle it "disappears"? In fact this discussion was my second attempt in posting it...since my first one disappeared...arrgghh!


myLot reputation of 98/100. emeraldisle (8959)  5 years ago

Sounds like mylot didn't like this discussion for some reason or maybe it just didn't like us with it? Who knows but thanks for understanding.

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4. myLot reputation of 80/100. wdkptr (487)   5 years ago

I agree with many of the ideas here, esp. the ones about people fearing the unfamiliar and the impressions given by media and older books. To understand why people would stay far away from withcraft in times of persecution is not hard, just being found with anything associated with witchcraft could get ya killed. Also, I believe a lot of Christians are going on the passage that says something like, "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", though this translation is erroneous. Most theologians and language experts agree that the correct word would be soothsayer (fortune teller) not witch. Somehow the ones who fear witchcraft do not bother me as much as those who think they can just use witchcraft for their own personal profit without study, the "I want a spell-in-a-box to make me rich" types. The long association between witchcraft and devil worship doesn't help. I still get the 'oh, you are a devil worshipper' remark if I mention that I am pagan. Christians who are trying to convert me do not like me much because I frustrate them. They accuse me of devil worship and I explain to them that I don't believe in the Devil because he is a Christian invention and they really freak out. They say, "You are going to go to Hell" and I say 'no, that also is a Christian invention'. They say, "you'll never get into Heaven". I respond, 'thank goodness, because I don't want to go to Heaven, I want to go to the Summerlands". Here in the South it seems that if you are not a Bible thumping Christian, you have to be a devil worshipper. And man, you shoulda seen the faces of the cops when I lived in a small nearby town and had my first all night sky clad fire circle. I would have given a lot to have had a movie camera. Three little redneck cops in the middle of the night trying (unsucessfully) to make this old naked lady put out the fire in her backyard and put some clothes on. A nice visit to the mayor the next day to throw words around like 'religious rights' 'ACLU' and 'I'll call in the media' fixed it right quick, never had any more trouble.

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myLot reputation of 98/100. pyewacket (12221)   ranked 1 out of 160 in wicca  5 years ago

Once again you did a great response! Mmmm...you must at least live in a country area to go sky clad ...if I did that here in my urban area of my neighborhood.. oh yes would definitely be arrested for indecent exposure--LOL
I know a lot of the associations many Christians associate with witchcraft are Christian inventions...I wonder how many would realize how many so called Christian practices though are based in pagan/wiccan/witchcraft beliefs..it would freak them out!!


myLot reputation of 98/100. emeraldisle (8959)  5 years ago

wdkptr, I like how you handle such things. It's very true that the devil, hell, and heaven are Christian beliefs and have nothing to do with ours. We have our own system and they should respect it as much as we respect theirs. In other words live and let live :)


pyewacket you have some very good points about how much of the Christian practices, holidays, etc are all "borrowed" from pagan beliefs. Many do not even realize how many and if you point them out they do not want to hear it. They try to say that Christians did it first and we copied them. Yeah, right try again. Paganism was out a lot longer and doing things for far longer then the Christian faith.


myLot reputation of 80/100. wdkptr (487)  5 years ago

LOL, well at the time I lived in a smallish town nearby, but I was in a neighborhood. However, I also discovered that in my county a lady is not guilty of indecent exposure as long as she has her undies on. Now that did take me by surprise as in most things our county is quite backwards.

And as for the development of Christianity I read a great book entitiled, "When God was a Woman" which dealt with the evolution of Yaweh (Jehovah) from an obscure mountain wind god to the Jehovah we know today. It also dealt with the downfall of Astarte, a half woman, half snake Goddess who reigned supreme for many generations. It explained that this is a large reason behind the woman-snake-evil connection made in Genesis. And if you read about the era of the Council of Nicea, you can see how the Bible we know was created and how the Roman Emperor Constantine and the Pope along with many bishops used many Pagan symbols and holidays, changed to Christian ideas in order to facilitate the acceptance of Christianity by the populous. A favorite example of mine is Christmas. According to Roman records and star tracking, Christ would not have been born in December. The most probable time would be August or September. However, Mithras, a major diety of the time had His birthday on December 25. Customs were much like our Christmas, gifts, feasting, etc. The Romans were not willing to give up the gifts and parties, so Constantine and the Pope set that date as the date of Christ's birth. Star tracking has found a conjunction of planets and stars which would have been the Holy Star we hear of that the Wise Men followed... in AUgust of the year 0-1. also, Roman records reflect that censuses were held in the fall after the harvest so farmers would not have to leave their crops and before cold weather prevented travel by the populous. Records show that the census of that time in the area of Bethlehem was in the fall not the winter. Yes, the census was held, yes, Joseph, Mary and infant son were recorded, but in August or September (forgive me, my memory loses which) not in December. So unless Mary sat in the manger for 2-3 months in the throes of delivery, the time does not compute.


myLot reputation of 98/100. pyewacket (12221)   ranked 1 out of 160 in wicca  5 years ago

wdkptr --my you amaze me--wish I could give you another Best Response!! ;-)


myLot reputation of 80/100. wdkptr (487)  5 years ago

Aw gee.. (blush).. thanks.. the results of being an information junkie and of reading religious stuff for almost 40 years. I have always been fascinated by religions of all kinds.. and I believe I saw the Christmas date thing on a mysteries of the Bible show (a favorite of mine, well done).

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5. myLot reputation of 74/100. xfallenxlostx (1811)   5 years ago

i thought this was going to be about AFI's song Malleus Malificarum. However, i do not agree with modern day or any day witch hunts. its pretty lame. you would think in this day and age that people can accept people for who they are and not what they do. people are people and its not our business to butt into their personal lives.

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6. myLot reputation of 87/100. Ravenladyj (19028)   5 years ago

I honestly think ppl still fear it becuase they've been basically brainwashed to fear it...they've been conned for centuries into thinking that Witchcraft and/or any Occult type thing is the work of some Satan etc...the reality is though the WHOLE REASON the hunts began was simply a means of control by the gov and the Church....

Its the same with Vodou...there have NEVER been any recorded cases of human sacrifice or negative anything really for example...all that nonsense started AGES ago by reporters needing a good story so they made one up....then the fear was brought back into the forefront in the 50s by "Papa Doc" (François Duvalier who was a dictator and the Haitian Prez from mid 50s til I dunno when actually)...His methods didnt help any by pulling the crap he did in creating the Tonton Macoute, the way they operated (harsh and vile!) as well as Papa Doc claiming he was a Vodoun Priest and taking on the characteristics of the Lwa Baron Samedi in order to control the ppl via fear etc....

In todays world though, the fear of Witchcraft from yester-year still remains AND add to that the fact that religious fanatics love to add to the lies and over the yrs some nutty ppl like to make insane claims of ritual abuse, baby/children/human sacrifice, forced orgies etc etc (none of which by the way have ever been proven true by the FBI in fact just the opposite)....Ppl tend to, for whatever reason, think its easier to fear it and shun it rather than get the facts and learn the truth so to stop the fear, hatred and violence etc...I know part of the reason is they are worried that learning and accpeting would somehow be a slap to their own relgion but the truth is, any god IMO would take pride in his followers being loving and openminded enough to do something like that while still show devotion to him/her.....

wow....did ANY OF THAT make sense?? I'm so not with it today....


myLot reputation of 94/100. arcadian (479)   ranked 67 out of 160 in wicca  5 years ago

Not so with it? Ravenladyj, you always have good insights, well presented. And this was one more- I'm glad you wrote about Vodou-that's had a harsher reputation than witchcraft- from everything I've learned, it is a beautiful and healing religion.
People who are motivated to live with spirituality as the centerpiece of their lives are mystics, plain and simple. And no mystic should ever be punished by any court whether civil or religious. a mystic seeks out teachers, and lives by a honed intuition, aspiring to the loftiest realm of human experience and always in service to humanity.
What could there possibly be to justify the fear and punishments and so on?


myLot reputation of 80/100. wdkptr (487)  5 years ago

stories of child sacrifice, orgies, and such have been used throughout the centuries to sway public opinion against any group the leaders wanted squashed. Read the German newspapers of Hitler's day and Jews are accused of these things. Read the edicts of the Roman Emperors of times before Constantine converted and changed the Roman Empire to the Holy Roman Empire and those edicts accuse Christians of these things in the times of the Persecutions. So if you take all these in consideration, every darned body eats babies for breakfast :->

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7. myLot reputation of 99/100. recycledgoth (7430)   ranked 36 out of 160 in wicca   5 years ago

Fear of the misunderstood, mix in a generous portion of ignorance, blend together with strict dogmatism, leave to simmer for hundreds of years. Then add popular literature and media tales, dust with movie myths and inaccurate dramatisation and this is the end result.

I still don't understand why it is that people still fear witchcraft, ever after all these years.


Freedom

myLot reputation of 98/100. pyewacket (12221)   ranked 1 out of 160 in wicca  5 years ago

Because people are still ignorant--

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8. myLot reputation of 64/100. GnosticGoddess (3488)   ranked 33 out of 160 in wicca   5 years ago

I think you have something there. I also think that in general people fear that of which they do not understand.
And most people are too afraid to learn anything about witchcraft to ask about it because they were brainwashed that way. And I think that's were most of it comes from.

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9. myLot reputation of 96/100. xParanoiax (5014)   ranked 22 out of 160 in wicca   5 years ago

No. The book was the result of the people who hired the witch hunters to begin with, who then in turn made that book. And maybe it started before that, I have no idea..people are funny things. Maybe someone had a dream somewhere and those being the times they were, they believed it and declared "All people who practice magick are EVIL!!". I don't know, alot of history is still unknown, plus I was always a sucky student of history lol.

But I doubt the book has any influence, truly. Even if it was an unconcious one. If I remember right, not a ton of people had access to that book..most regular people couldn't afford books back then, anways. I'd think they'd only know of the book from how the hunters and leader people spoke of it.

Otherwise, its mother culture's doing. The misinformation enforced by fear and/or disbelief of the majority which slowly grew. Plus enforced by the people and children of the same religion the leaders did the unpleasant stuff in the name of. Christianity still holds the spot of being the largest religion in the world, remember? And while christianity itself isn't terrible, when we think of the load of jerks in it. The other ones who question nothing, and the children..them having children..I think that's sufficent.

Asia and Africa? Though they may've been touched by the events of the 'Craze which had created the book..I doubt it had that big of an effect, which might explain why the burnings and stuff hasn't been a terribly big thing in Asia and Africa..or, it might be the remainder of the old fear mixed with respect which had been apart of their beliefs for centuries. In Asia, Africa and India witches and pagans were either known as wise people blessed by the gods, or else they were posessed by evil spirits/demons and would bring bad luck or destruction down on the locals.

Fun, lol. Despite how much the peoples of the world would like to think we're above the savagery of our pasts, the facts are since the savagery was apart of our pasts to begin with says that they've been a part of ourselves since forever and probably always will be -- but that doesn't mean we have to go out and killing people based off of opinions and not facts. The people decide to do that, listen to the irrational angry animal within lol.

Uh..that's all.

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