Did You Know Stillborn Babies Aren't Considered A "Person"??

@pyewacket (43903)
United States
January 6, 2009 9:25pm CST
This is sort of a follow up to my discussion about that stillborn baby that was thrown out as garbage at that Christ Hospital in NJ. I did some further reading of the situation and came up with a statement in numerous articles about this case, that according to the laws in New Jersey, a stillborn baby has NO status...that baby isn't even considered a "person"....Like WTF? This got me curious. I wanted to find out, what in general was the status of stillborn babies in other states here in America. What I came up with was mind-boggling, and it's not ONLY here in the United States, but from what I'm gathering is a worldwide legal status of still born babies. The status is the same: they are NOT considered as a person. A stillborn baby while the parents can receive a death certificate of the stillborn baby, they can't get a birth certificate, since technically speaking the baby wasn't born "alive" or have it's first breath of life before dying. I was further reading that pro-choice activists are worried that if actions are taken to provide birth certificates of stillborn babies and are recognized as a "person" this could jeopardize abortion rights--okay not to get into what you think about abortion if you're pro or con..this is NOT, repeat NOT about abortion. I see it as a separate thing when a woman freely chooses to have an abortion. I think it's a whole different matter however, when a woman WANTS the baby, is overjoyed with having a baby, but then something happens and the baby is stillborn. Don't you think then that the stillborn baby should be recognized as a "person", and a birth certificate should be given to the parents? Shouldn't there be better dignity to all this? The woman who gave birth to a stillborn baby is traumatized as it is, as she was looking forward to bringing that little life into the world...and then have it slapped in her face that due to the laws of the land, that baby isn't even considered a person?? Here are some of the "gems" of articles I found...yikes I found one from a website in South of Wales for crying out loud. {Warning: These links are NOT referral links but links about the status of stillborn babies} http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LC20070621016 http://www.momlogic.com/2008/06/birth_certificates_for_stillbo.php http://www.missingkate.org/main.htm This winner is from Canada http://www.freedominion.com.pa/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1382 [i]Judge rules stillborn baby has no value (small excerpt: "The Supreme Court of Canada [has] determined that a fetus had no legal status until it is a child, born alive and viable.") [/i] I don't know about you but I think this is so wrong. How can anyone in their right minds tell a woman who wanted to have their baby, that it was stillborn and it's not considered a person? To that mother it WAS!
9 people like this
11 responses
@dloveli (4366)
• United States
8 Jan 09
I am appaulled at the way still born is looked at legally. I am a mother of two beautiful daughters and a step son that is mine regardless of who his mother is. Also I have lost and buried 5 babies. Four boys and a girl. Three of them passed on in utero. THey were considered still born. I gave them a name, had their prints taken, and buried them with the love and respect they deserved. How dare anyone ignore a life. My children were alive inside of me! I was under the impression that once there was heart beat and or brain activity it was considered a living thing. I may be wrong. How could it not be considered a person. Doctors have been saying for years that when you carry a child they can hear and react to the goings on around them. Also if a women is killed when she is pregnant, it is considered two people. THe government is FU**** up. THey shouldnt be able to have it both ways because in one aspect it helps them and the other wouldnt. I received paperwork for each of my children. I think it depends on how far along you are and how developed the child is. I know that when its one or two months they dont even send you to the maternity ward if there's an emergency. This will be something we will debate until the end of time. My response to it is that when it happens to them, they will soon change their mind. I had my babies for a brief moment in time and no law, legislation, or opinions of governing officials can change that. dl
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
I'm so sorry to hear you had so many stillborns....how horrible for you, but I bet in every way you DID consider those babies as persons. You're so right the the laws are completely screwed up...but then most laws are written by men and not women who have gone through this
1 person likes this
@dloveli (4366)
• United States
27 Jan 09
I definitely believe that men should not be the deciding factor in any law, legislation, or medical bilaws regarding a woman and her unborn child. I never did understand how so many medical decisions about pregnancy. Do you know that any pregnancy under 24 weeks isnt even taken to the maternity ward. Unless its decided that the child may be able to make it. WHen you go to the ER the first thing they ask you is the number of weeks. I remember when I delivered my son at home. We wrapped him and went to the emergency room. They stuck him in a bucket right in front of us. Nice huh? I think that they have lost their bedside manner. They have been so burnt out or seen it so much that they dont think about a patients feelings or emotions. I hope to God that no one ever goes through what I went thru. I dont know how I made it. No thanks to the Hospital staff thats for sure. dl
@irishmist (3814)
• United States
8 Jan 09
That is just God awful, and just so sad. I don't have words at the moment to describe how it makes me feel, because so many things are going through my mind at this moment.
2 people like this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
Yes I agree it is horrible and sad
@Fortunata (1135)
• United States
8 Jan 09
That's why a lot of times, depending on the state law, if someone kills a pregnant woman they won't even count the life of the unborn child. It just sickens me that this been allowed to go on.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
They really need to do a lot of revisions of laws I think, don't you?
• United States
7 Jan 09
So the baby is only a "baby" if they are wanted? If they are not wanted then they are a "fetus". The pro-choice people are correct, if they recognize these babies as babies then abortions would murder. You can't legally recognize one based on if they are wanted by the mother or not.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
I think women who did want the baby though and had the misfortune though of that baby being stillborn would like that baby recognized as a person...there have been quite a number of repliers here who did have stillborn babies and they feel the same way--I still see a difference however between a stillborn baby that was wanted vs. a woman who wants the abortion
@agrant10 (1476)
• United States
7 Jan 09
Wow, I did not know that. I think that it very sad to carry a baby and it is still born and then have to go deal with this on top of losing the child. Heartbreaking. Thanks for sharing.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
Yes it is heartbreaking
@savak03 (6684)
• United States
7 Jan 09
I never knew this. I have been blessed in that I have never had to face this problem personally. Not to even address the other issue, I definitely feel like the baby has a right to a name which I am assuming it cannot have without a birth certificate. Now that I think about it there was a family rumor that my mother had a child before she had me but it didn't live and they did not give it a name. I wonder if the reason was that it was still born.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
8 Jan 09
Did you ever ask your mother about that? Or was it just plain something she didn't want to talk about?
1 person likes this
@savak03 (6684)
• United States
8 Jan 09
I was only 11 the last time I saw my mother. I don't think I had heard the story yet at that time.
1 person likes this
@Thoroughrob (11742)
• United States
7 Jan 09
That is contradicting themselves. If a woman loses a baby because of something someone did, it is considered murder. Go figure laws are made for whatever is convenient. It is wrong.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
8 Jan 09
Yes I can't understand how the laws can contradict themselves either
@mgmagana (3618)
• United States
7 Jan 09
wow, tell my friend that, she would freak. my friends baby was born 2 weeks early before the due date when they couldn't find a heartbeat, the cord strangled the baby. but she was a baby that developed to her fullest. to tell my friend that the baby she carried for 8 1/2 months isn't a person is utterly ridiculous. i do believe they shouldn't have a birth certificate since they weren't born alive, but they shouldn't not be considered a person just because they don't have one.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
I know,...I bet a lot of women feel the same way as your friend and in every way consider that stillborn baby as a person
@subha12 (18441)
• India
7 Jan 09
it was not known actually. But I guess it must be same in my country as well.But I guess only when a live child is born, its considered a person.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
I just bet mothers who give birth to a stillborn child would argue about their baby not being a person though
@catdla1 (6005)
• United States
7 Jan 09
I agree with you totally! Several states have apparently created a 'certificate of birth resulting in stillbirth'. Many more are considering it. I could be totally wrong on this, but I believe that the Catholic Church can also issue a baptismal certificate for a stillbirth. I came across the question in my childbirth classes years ago, and was told that in the event of a stillbirth that if the parents wanted the child baptized that it was considered done and was a valid sacrament. I don't know if that's true, but considering their stance on human life beginning at conception, it makes sense if it is.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
8 Jan 09
Yes I suppose the ideology of the Catholic Church is that viewpoint that life begins at conception, and even the pro-lifers would agree with that, but even if it isn't, a stillborn baby should still be considered as a "person"
1 person likes this
@CRIVAS (1815)
• Canada
7 Jan 09
Wow! I'm not even really sure what to say to all that. I really cannot believe that some people can be so cold hearted. I completely agree with you and personally I think it is a law that needs to be changed. A still born child is still a child. While they may not have breathed fresh air, they did LIVE for 9 months in the womb. They grow like a person, they have a heart beat at least until the horribe time that their little heart stopps beating. I honestly can't believe that someone would throw the body of a child away, does that child not deserve to have a proper burial. I would love to know that the Church thinks about this, it makes you wonder. I think that the parents of any stillborn children would have to agree with us, this ruling seems completley unfair. I just can't seem to wrap my mind around this one. It is sad what is acceptable in humand civilization now a days. Thanks for the disscusion, it might not be a happy one but it definately deserves to be brought to light. I hope others respond too.
1 person likes this
@pyewacket (43903)
• United States
27 Jan 09
There are quite of number of posters here who have experienced stillborn births and in every way they DID consider their baby as a person--so have no idea how these stupid laws came about