sign in • sign up
web   discussions   tasks   blogs   photos

Should we just say "NO" to this pork-riddled, SPENDING/Stimulus Package?   email this discussion to a friend?

myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics 4 years ago

Hello All,

Isn't this Obama Spending/Stimulus Plan crafted after the great Franklin Delano Roosevelt "New Deal" Spending/Stimulus Plan?

Well, what would you say if you were told the following by Franklin D. Roosevelt's own Treasury Secretary?

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work.

And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat.

We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"

http://www.businessandmed...

Oh, and if you desire to get into a debate with me over trusting the great national hero FDR's vision, then please do your due diligence and review FDR's history of being known as "The Butcher of Haiti" and an unapologetic racist during his days as a commissioned Naval Officer before taking up the FDR hero argument, OK?

"THE BUTCHER OF HAITI - In July 1915 FDR, as Assistant Secretary of the Navy, personally led US Marines into Haiti to overturn the only independent black republic besides Abyssinia. By all accounts, FDR administered Haiti brutally and cruelly with no regard for lives..."
www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/fdr.html

"Hoover's protectionist moves in the 20s and the creation of the FED to allow fractional reserve banking created the nightmare of the 30s FDR didn't save capitalism he created socialism in a capitalistic economy. Let's put FDR in perspective. He led the marines into Haiti in 1915 to do a regime change..."
www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/04/7448

"FDR played the most sordid sort of ward politics with Navy contracts. •VP candidate in 1920. •THE BUTCHER OF HAITI"
www.mail-archive.com/ctrl....
____________________________________________________________________________________

My questions to you are:

1. Have you seen this Morganthau report card from the FDR "New Deal" era before?

2. Should today's media, and Congressional Representatives be making a commitment to share this professional economic assessment of the "New Deal" with us, given the fact that we're being asked to support a nearly identical economic proposal by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barack Obama?

3. Is there some great difference between then and now that should justify the American voter believing that employing the same failed strategy as the FDR administration will somehow work today, when it failed so miserably then, and prolonged the Great Depression by years?

4. Shouldn't Mr. Morgenthau's (a friend of FDR's) own words be motivation enough for us to just say "NO" to this unsound economic proposal?
____________________________________________________________________________________

Below is the excerpt in its entirety:

"By Donald J. Boudreaux
Business & Media Institute
11/4/2008 9:02:11 AM

To the Editor:

Andrew Wilson is right: the New Deal did not end the Great Depression ("Five Myths About the Great Depression," November 4). No less an authority than FDR's Treasury secretary and close friend, Henry Morganthau, conceded this fact to Congressional Democrats in May 1939: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"*

Indeed, FDR's market-suffocating policies are almost surely what put the "Great" in "Great Depression."

Sincerely,

Donald J. Boudreaux


http://www.thenewamerican...

 

politics
sponsors
Is Socialism Liberalism?
Learn how Socialism Destroys Democracy
AmericasCulturalStudies.com

Obama Campaign Offices
Find Local Barack Obama Campaign
yellowpages.com

Michelle Obama
Inspires In South Africa Inside Story On Obama Family
TheGrio.com

Destiny007 (4866) response was accepted on 2/13/2009.
denotes best response, click it to go to the best response.
tags:  biden, democrat party stimulus package, obama, pelosi, socialism
 
1. myLot reputation of 22/100. kennyrose (5047)   4 years ago

History proves what this administration is doing has never worked in the pass and it will not work now,because it can not work in the first place.

Back in June of 2008 onward I took a lot of heat at this site seeing Obama sorely lacked experience for the job he was running for,due to his gross lack of experience for the job I saw Obama as a hand puppet for Nancy Poloise and Harry Reid as well as the far left democrats.

How ever is vetting for Barack Obama they better not quite their day job,they have caused people to question Obama's ability to use good judgement as the president of the United States.

During the campaign blogggers voiced this same concern because Obama's back ground is littered with his freinds that have very shady and soiled backgrounds and as we speak some of them same people have been indited and one has been impeached.

Obama knows first hand he has messed up, on the record yesterday he said he hopes not to screw up again.

Barack Obama has to governor from the middle and tell Nancy and Harry to shut the hell up and sit down.

I have had serious concerns that Nancy and Harry would be running the show first thing out of the gate,I hear there is bickering going on between Barack,Nancy,Harry,Obama is no longer out campaigning this is the real deal talk is cheap and bullSH*t walks,this is were the rubber meets the road,Obama is going to have to governor for all the people or look the fool and be Nancy and Harry's hand puppet.

That takes me to my next concern,I think Barack Obama would had killed so he could be president,if Obama is hiding even one important thing he could be very easily blackmailed,which would mean he will do what he is told to do and when to do it so his secret will not be revealed.

Over 50 % of the American people have spoke loud and clear they do not want this left wing democrate 920 billion dollar speeding bill to be passed,if Obama goes against the American tax payer's his ra-ra group will not be able to save his butt.

I singed Senator John McCain no petition online this morning by evening news 250,000 American had also signed it.

Barack Obama may have placed himself between a rock and a hard place,if certain powerful people know a well kept secret,Barack Obama and our country could be very easily high jacked.

I believe if this one trillion dollar speeding spree is not junked we will be facing even worse then the great depression because people today will not as a whole pull togeather in good times they will kill for the fun of it.

Thank you for this very good insight to the pass if we don't learn from history we will surely repeat it.


Regards,
Rose






















myLot reputation of 64/100. us2owls (2086)   ranked 768 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

And just think - if and/or when Obama fails or for some other reason he is booted out of office - what do we have waiting in the wing to take over - Joe Biden - that thought gives me shivers - perish the thought of Biden as President. I can see it now - President Biden & Vice President Pelosi - just the thought makes me want to throw up.


myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

Hello Rose,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this economic mess.

Your blackmail theory has real teeth in the face of these Blogojevich charges. Blogo has been conducting an impressive 'public opinion' campaign, which has focused on the link between the charges levied against him and certain members of Obama's team & staff. The prosecutor did not include Obama on the witness list, but that's just the prosecutors list. What about the defense witness list. If there is something to be held over Obama's head, my money is on Blogo having access to it. I wouldn't put it passed Pelosi and Reid to hold a potential scandal over this politically green newbie's head, in the pursuit of their political and power lust goals. They could offer a larged degree of protection, as the power they wield is significant. Though, it would be terribly naive to believe that either would put their careers on the line in Obama's defense without a quid pro quo.


myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

Hello Us2owls,

Yes, I have to admit that Biden at the helm makes me very nervous as well. Of course, the fact that he garnered less than 1% of the DNC Primary Vote back in June is an honest indicator that we are not alone with our concerns.

Primary results for Joe Biden:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTI...


myLot reputation of 22/100. kennyrose (5047)  4 years ago

People are still waiting for their cases to be heard against Barack Obama on his refuseal to unseal his birth certificate,of late congress has been also suited over not properly vetting Obama,Obama refuses to unseal his vault birth certificate because he is not a United States citizen.

When it is proved and I think it will be Obama will be facing serious legal charges and could go to prison,the election then would be proven fraud and I'm not sure if Joe Biden would become president,because the election was fraud it may not go to Joe Biden but to Senator John McCain,our country will be in a awful constitution crisis.


Barack Obama is a Hollywood star and not a president leading our country,he is on T.v and writing editorials telling the American people if this 920 billion dollar bill is not passed the boogie man is going to eat us,55% of the American people have spoke and against this sending bill.

To get a lot of insight go to citizen wells and read the facts about Barack Obama's involvements with Gov Blago and the Chicago corruption,they list boards Obama sit on and the business interest that got millions of bucks in grant right from Obama as he sit high on Chicago boards.

Rose












myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

Hello Rose,

When I got to the part about the bogey-man eating us if we didn't support the Bacon Package, I had just taken a sip of tea. You can imagine the rest, I'm sure.

Thanks for the bit of good humor, Rose. To the rest, well ... we can only "HOPE"



Is Socialism Liberalism? Learn how Socialism Destroys Democracy  AmericasCulturalStudies.com
 
2. myLot reputation of 49/100. Destiny007 (4866)   ranked 647 out of 3,986 in politics   4 years ago

This stimulus package is all the rage these days... it is chock full of all of the goodies and pork that the liberals tried and failed to get passed for the past several years, and will do absolutely nothing to stimulate our economy.

The 0bamunist seems to be a mix of FDR and Carter, with emphasis on FDR.

Neither of them can be considered a particularly good model.

As to your questions....

1... I have seen several assessments concerning FDR and his New Deal et al, and all are damaging. FDR's plan only made things worse and extended the depression by many years than it would otherwise have lasted.

They say tat a mark of insanity is doing the same things while expecting different results. That is also a sign of incompetence... yet the 0bamunist is attempting those same failed policies of FDR.If you do not remember the mistakes of the past then those mistakes will be repeated.

2... This would be the same media that refused to report anything on the 0bamunist, but sent investigative teams after Palin as soon as she was named.

In answer to your question... yes, they should be reporting on all relevant information pertaining to the issues, but they won't.

After all, it is now their job to see that the 0bamunist Regime is a success... whereas it was their job to ensure that the Bush Administration was perceived as a failure... and they did all they could to ensure that perception.

3... Yes... it is the chosen one... the messiah... and his words shall make that happen.

Actually... no. There is no difference between then and now. Only the players have changed. The FED created the last depression.... and the FED created this one. Paulson gave inaccurate and fraudulent information when he claimed that the credit had dried up. The mortgage crisis began this, and the FED made it worse, just as they did the last time.

4... Yes. He was there... he saw what was tried, and he saw that it did not work.

We are back to the repeating mistakes part.

Did you know that in order to sell this mess to the people that the 0bamunist is using polling and focus groups to determine the language used?

In order to get this past us, he has to lie, manipulate and mislead. That should tell each of us something about the merits of this package.

Did you also see where Pelosi said that for every month this plan doesn't pass, that 500 million people will lose there jobs?

Considering that there are only about 305 million in the US, I would say that this is an illustration of the amount of lies and hyperbole that the democrats are known for... or maybe she was counting all 57 states.

http://wnd.com/index.php?...


myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

Hello Destiny!

I must admit that I'm hanging my head in shame. I lambasted Mdm. Pelosi for the 500 million gaff, when it was I who was neglecting to consider the citizens of all 57 of our states. Silly, silly, me!

Seriously, outstanding response. You definitely paid attention in History Class!

Obama Campaign Offices Find Local Barack Obama Campaign  yellowpages.com
 
3. myLot reputation of 42/100. redyellowblackdog (4040)   4 years ago

That you are so correct and the mainline media ignores these points saddens me more than I can say.

Today on ABC's Sunday show this topic came up. The guest gave what amounts to a non sequetor for an answer. The host accepted that answer without criticism. I was appalled.


myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

Hello Red,

Do you remember who the guest was?

Grrr! That these many hosts and news anchors fail to challenge this wholesale malarky is beyond maddening. Every economist worth a lick of salt has pointed to the unemployment rates when FDR started his spending binge, versus the umemployment figures eight years later. There is no way to compare that data and conclude other than that the New Deal was a ... RAW DEAL! angry

As if FDR's horrible economic example isn't enough, we have Japan's "Lost Decade" to learn from. The Japanese gov't threw good money after bad in an effort to stimulate their economy, and managed to just bury themselves deeper and deeper. The only kind of spending that stimulates an economy is private enterprise spending and investment. The only way to convince private enterprise to invest now is to assure them greater disposable income by demanding less from them in tax payments.

"Philip Bowring ("A close-up on Japan's 'lost decade,"' Views, Dec. 31)
It is true that the household sector saved a lot of money during Japan's "lost decade," but the corresponding shortage of demand destroyed vast wealth.
Japan's stock market remains close to 80 percent below its 1989 peak, and real estate has yet to recover half of its old value.
To keep the economy from sliding into a depression under such deflationary pressure, the government drove the national debt up by well over a year's GDP. With depreciated assets and onerous future tax bills, the Japanese people are now much poorer than they once were...."
www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/08/opinion/edlet.php

Even with irrefutable history, we've got people lying through their teeth to us about how Obama's plan, which is just as bone-headed, is somehow magically going to work.

How STUPID do the Democrats think we are?


myLot reputation of 42/100. redyellowblackdog (4040)  4 years ago

The guest was someone in the 0bama administration having something to do with economic matters. I don't remember his name or his title. His refutation was merely that Republicans did not do such a good job running the economy, so why should we listen to them? This, of course, does nothing to dispell any particular arguement any specific Republican is currently putting forth. I think it is evidence that Republicans do not practice what they preach, but that is it.

Michelle Obama Inspires In South Africa Inside Story On Obama Family  TheGrio.com
 
4. myLot reputation of 49/100. morethanamolehill (860)   ranked 847 out of 3,986 in politics   4 years ago

This isn't an "economic stimulus package". It's a Democrat Party Stimulus package and it should be trashed.

Any Republican that votes for it is an idiot and anyone who votes for any republican that votes for it is an idiot.


myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

Hello Morethanamolehill,

Agreed! Though, I'm of the mindset that any Republican who votes for this abuse of The People's Trust should be tagged with a great, big bullseye in time for their next election. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

It doesn't matter if a taxpayer is from Maine or Pennsylvania -- after the DNC spends us into another several trillion in debt -- everyone is going to be either ponying up more tax money, or losing benefits. Money doesn't grow on trees, and government services aren't going to be paid for with Obama's hoop-shots!

Voltairine de Cleyre The American Anarchist and Feminist - information, essays and quotes  OnlinePhilosophyClub.com
 
5. myLot reputation of 86/100. laglen (7665)   ranked 91 out of 3,986 in politics   4 years ago

I am not responding to defend FDR, on the contrary, I am responding to thank you for the sources. I was aware of the mess he made of our economy and how we are still paying for it.
I say yes to saying no to the stimulus!


myLot reputation of 78/100. ladyluna (2495)   ranked 185 out of 3,986 in politics  4 years ago

Hello Laglen,

You're very welcome. I'm happy to oblige. Though, can you tell that I've gone round & round about FDR before?

Me too, though I'm saying "heck no" to the "spendulus" bill!

Geesh, didn't we learn anything when they jammed TARP down our throats, saying that if it wasn't done immediately that the sky would fall? Criminies, how short are our memories? TARP was only a few months ago!

The Elite Idolaters A book about the Michigan FOIA and the Child Protection Law.  www.davidebloch.com
 
sponsors
Voltairine de Cleyre
The American Anarchist and Feminist - information, essays and quotes
OnlinePhilosophyClub.com

The Elite Idolaters
A book about the Michigan FOIA and the Child Protection Law.
www.davidebloch.com

Get Involved America
Election America t-shirts, pins, mugs, stickers plus - great prices.
www.BalanceAmerica.com

similar discussions
Joe Biden says that the Taliban are not an Enemy of the US
This is the idiot that Obama chose to be VP? If they aren't our enemy, how come they are at war...
What to get VP Joe Biden on his birthday?
Take a minute from the real news and think what you would give America's #2 on his upcoming...
Couldnt have said it better myself
Regarding Amtrak changing the name of the station in honor of "Sheriff Biden" “It’s an...
Biden compliments W!
Thats right, our respectable Vice President, appearing on Stephen Colberts show, complimented...
Biden really needs to think before he speaks....and do a little research
Biden is in my state today stumping for Rep. John Spratt. In his fundraising speech he said the GOP...
VP Biden does not understand our system
It seems that VP Biden does not understand how our government works. The Government gets its money...
VP Biden says "We Can't Recover All the Jobs"
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008924-503544.html In front of a group of supporters in...
Why is Biden still allowed to speak...anywhere?
In a speech at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee conference in DC, Pelosi said the...
We all knew he was going to be good for a laugh!
Biden has done it again. You have to admit he is an interesting VP. YOu never know what he is going...
It's not easy being green, but it's easy being Vice President
White House staff are said to become nervous whenever Vice President Joe Biden finds himself in...
sponsors
Voltairine de Cleyre
The American Anarchist and Feminist - information, essays and quotes
OnlinePhilosophyClub.com
The Elite Idolaters
A book about the Michigan FOIA and the Child Protection Law.
www.davidebloch.com
Get Involved America
Election America t-shirts, pins, mugs, stickers plus - great prices.
www.BalanceAmerica.com
Creditbad credit
Financingbad credit
fastyourtr.com
Campusteaparties
Find out what the youngest tea partiers are doing
campusteaparties
Mutual Fund
Invest In Money Market Mutual Funds. See Exclusive Online Offers Today.
firstcountybank.com
Car Insurance (Exposed)
We investigated car insurance and what we found may shock you...
CarInsurancee-Quotes.com
return to mylot
We are loading a word from our sponsors. No thanks, cancel loading.