Should we just say "NO" to this pork-riddled, SPENDING/Stimulus Package?
By ladyluna
@ladyluna (7004)
United States
February 4, 2009 9:49pm CST
Hello All,
Isn't this Obama Spending/Stimulus Plan crafted after the great Franklin Delano Roosevelt "New Deal" Spending/Stimulus Plan?
Well, what would you say if you were told the following by Franklin D. Roosevelt's own Treasury Secretary?
[b][i]"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work.
And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat.
We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"[/i][/b]
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20081104085447.aspx
Oh, and if you desire to get into a debate with me over trusting the great national hero FDR's vision, then please do your due diligence and review FDR's history of being known as "The Butcher of Haiti" and an unapologetic racist during his days as a commissioned Naval Officer before taking up the FDR hero argument, OK?
"THE BUTCHER OF HAITI - In July 1915 FDR, as Assistant Secretary of the Navy, personally led US Marines into Haiti to overturn the only independent black republic besides Abyssinia. By all accounts, FDR administered Haiti brutally and cruelly with no regard for lives..."
www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/fdr.html
"Hoover's protectionist moves in the 20s and the creation of the FED to allow fractional reserve banking created the nightmare of the 30s FDR didn't save capitalism he created socialism in a capitalistic economy. Let's put FDR in perspective. He led the marines into Haiti in 1915 to do a regime change..."
www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/04/7448
"FDR played the most sordid sort of ward politics with Navy contracts. •VP candidate in 1920. •THE BUTCHER OF HAITI"
www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg13002.htm...
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My questions to you are:
1. Have you seen this Morganthau report card from the FDR "New Deal" era before?
2. Should today's media, and Congressional Representatives be making a commitment to share this professional economic assessment of the "New Deal" with us, given the fact that we're being asked to support a nearly identical economic proposal by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barack Obama?
3. Is there some great difference between then and now that should justify the American voter believing that employing the same failed strategy as the FDR administration will somehow work today, when it failed so miserably then, and prolonged the Great Depression by years?
4. Shouldn't Mr. Morgenthau's (a friend of FDR's) own words be motivation enough for us to just say "NO" to this unsound economic proposal?
____________________________________________________________________________________
Below is the excerpt in its entirety:
"By Donald J. Boudreaux
Business & Media Institute
11/4/2008 9:02:11 AM
To the Editor:
Andrew Wilson is right: the New Deal did not end the Great Depression ("Five Myths About the Great Depression," November 4). No less an authority than FDR's Treasury secretary and close friend, Henry Morganthau, conceded this fact to Congressional Democrats in May 1939: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"*
Indeed, FDR's market-suffocating policies are almost surely what put the "Great" in "Great Depression."
Sincerely,
Donald J. Boudreaux
http://www.thenewamerican.com/history/american/473
3 people like this
4 responses
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
8 Feb 09
That you are so correct and the mainline media ignores these points saddens me more than I can say.
Today on ABC's Sunday show this topic came up. The guest gave what amounts to a non sequetor for an answer. The host accepted that answer without criticism. I was appalled.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Hello Red,
Do you remember who the guest was?
Grrr! That these many hosts and news anchors fail to challenge this wholesale malarky is beyond maddening. Every economist worth a lick of salt has pointed to the unemployment rates when FDR started his spending binge, versus the umemployment figures eight years later. There is no way to compare that data and conclude other than that the New Deal was a ... RAW DEAL! 
As if FDR's horrible economic example isn't enough, we have Japan's "Lost Decade" to learn from. The Japanese gov't threw good money after bad in an effort to stimulate their economy, and managed to just bury themselves deeper and deeper. The only kind of spending that stimulates an economy is private enterprise spending and investment. The only way to convince private enterprise to invest now is to assure them greater disposable income by demanding less from them in tax payments.
"Philip Bowring ("A close-up on Japan's 'lost decade,"' Views, Dec. 31)
It is true that the household sector saved a lot of money during Japan's "lost decade," but the corresponding shortage of demand destroyed vast wealth.
Japan's stock market remains close to 80 percent below its 1989 peak, and real estate has yet to recover half of its old value.
To keep the economy from sliding into a depression under such deflationary pressure, the government drove the national debt up by well over a year's GDP. With depreciated assets and onerous future tax bills, the Japanese people are now much poorer than they once were...."
www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/08/opinion/edlet.php
Even with irrefutable history, we've got people lying through their teeth to us about how Obama's plan, which is just as bone-headed, is somehow magically going to work.
How STUPID do the Democrats think we are?
As if FDR's horrible economic example isn't enough, we have Japan's "Lost Decade" to learn from. The Japanese gov't threw good money after bad in an effort to stimulate their economy, and managed to just bury themselves deeper and deeper. The only kind of spending that stimulates an economy is private enterprise spending and investment. The only way to convince private enterprise to invest now is to assure them greater disposable income by demanding less from them in tax payments.
"Philip Bowring ("A close-up on Japan's 'lost decade,"' Views, Dec. 31)
It is true that the household sector saved a lot of money during Japan's "lost decade," but the corresponding shortage of demand destroyed vast wealth.
Japan's stock market remains close to 80 percent below its 1989 peak, and real estate has yet to recover half of its old value.
To keep the economy from sliding into a depression under such deflationary pressure, the government drove the national debt up by well over a year's GDP. With depreciated assets and onerous future tax bills, the Japanese people are now much poorer than they once were...."
www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/08/opinion/edlet.php
Even with irrefutable history, we've got people lying through their teeth to us about how Obama's plan, which is just as bone-headed, is somehow magically going to work.
How STUPID do the Democrats think we are?@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
9 Feb 09
The guest was someone in the 0bama administration having something to do with economic matters. I don't remember his name or his title. His refutation was merely that Republicans did not do such a good job running the economy, so why should we listen to them? This, of course, does nothing to dispell any particular arguement any specific Republican is currently putting forth. I think it is evidence that Republicans do not practice what they preach, but that is it.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Hello Laglen,
You're very welcome. I'm happy to oblige. Though, can you tell that I've gone round & round about FDR before?
Me too, though I'm saying "heck no" to the "spendulus" bill!
Geesh, didn't we learn anything when they jammed TARP down our throats, saying that if it wasn't done immediately that the sky would fall? Criminies, how short are our memories? TARP was only a few months ago!
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
5 Feb 09
This stimulus package is all the rage these days... it is chock full of all of the goodies and pork that the liberals tried and failed to get passed for the past several years, and will do absolutely nothing to stimulate our economy.
The 0bamunist seems to be a mix of FDR and Carter, with emphasis on FDR.
Neither of them can be considered a particularly good model.
As to your questions....
1... I have seen several assessments concerning FDR and his New Deal et al, and all are damaging. FDR's plan only made things worse and extended the depression by many years than it would otherwise have lasted.
They say tat a mark of insanity is doing the same things while expecting different results. That is also a sign of incompetence... yet the 0bamunist is attempting those same failed policies of FDR.If you do not remember the mistakes of the past then those mistakes will be repeated.
2... This would be the same media that refused to report anything on the 0bamunist, but sent investigative teams after Palin as soon as she was named.
In answer to your question... yes, they should be reporting on all relevant information pertaining to the issues, but they won't.
After all, it is now their job to see that the 0bamunist Regime is a success... whereas it was their job to ensure that the Bush Administration was perceived as a failure... and they did all they could to ensure that perception.
3... Yes... it is the chosen one... the messiah... and his words shall make that happen.
Actually... no. There is no difference between then and now. Only the players have changed. The FED created the last depression.... and the FED created this one. Paulson gave inaccurate and fraudulent information when he claimed that the credit had dried up. The mortgage crisis began this, and the FED made it worse, just as they did the last time.
4... Yes. He was there... he saw what was tried, and he saw that it did not work.
We are back to the repeating mistakes part.
Did you know that in order to sell this mess to the people that the 0bamunist is using polling and focus groups to determine the language used?
In order to get this past us, he has to lie, manipulate and mislead. That should tell each of us something about the merits of this package.
Did you also see where Pelosi said that for every month this plan doesn't pass, that 500 million people will lose there jobs?
Considering that there are only about 305 million in the US, I would say that this is an illustration of the amount of lies and hyperbole that the democrats are known for... or maybe she was counting all 57 states.
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=87978
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
5 Feb 09
Hello Destiny!
I must admit that I'm hanging my head in shame. I lambasted Mdm. Pelosi for the 500 million gaff, when it was I who was neglecting to consider the citizens of all 57 of our states. Silly, silly, me!
Seriously, outstanding response. You definitely paid attention in History Class!
@morethanamolehill (1586)
• United States
8 Feb 09
This isn't an "economic stimulus package". It's a Democrat Party Stimulus package and it should be trashed.
Any Republican that votes for it is an idiot and anyone who votes for any republican that votes for it is an idiot.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Feb 09
Hello Morethanamolehill,
Agreed! Though, I'm of the mindset that any Republican who votes for this abuse of The People's Trust should be tagged with a great, big bullseye in time for their next election. With friends like these, who needs enemies?
It doesn't matter if a taxpayer is from Maine or Pennsylvania -- after the DNC spends us into another several trillion in debt -- everyone is going to be either ponying up more tax money, or losing benefits. Money doesn't grow on trees, and government services aren't going to be paid for with Obama's hoop-shots!
