Socialized Medicine?

Canada is fine! We have no troubles finding doctors or going to clinics or emergency rooms. They do triage at the emerg, of course, the most life threatening go first, NOT THE FIRST TO PAY!

I am in Canada fella, so I know what it's like to live here.

So you think it's okay to refuse treatment to someone because they haven't got enough money?

i'm talking about specialists and non-emergency surgeries.

Sure, you have to wait for non-emergency appts with specialists. But that's because it's non-life threatening. They are just busy with more urgent cases that are life threatening. Elective surgery, like a b00b-job are not covered, and those would be last for sure, because they have nothing to do with your health.

If you have a 'real problem' you will never get frustrated with the wait to see a doctor and stop going. What, just stay sick, when it costs you nothing. I don't think so. The time will pass regardless, so may as well stay on the list. Impatience is NOT a virtue. If something is worth waiting for, you wait. Dr.s don't cut corners because of who signs their paycheques. They still get paid and it is a fair payment. And our way, they DO get paid. And none of them are allowed to gouge like they do in the US, making it only for the rich. I don't think I would like to be seen by a Dr. who's first concern is getting paid. I want a Dr. who cares about my health and making people better.

Why would you waste time going to a Dr. in another city for a common cold that a Dr. can do NOTHING ABOUT? It is a virus.

I would say that GB and the US are exact opposites when it comes to health care. Both are extremes at either end and therein lies the flaw. Canada, however, is in between. Maybe you should come and visit here sometime, you may be so impressed you might want to stay.

Maybe you have reason NOT to trust your gov't down in the US, but our gov't has run it pretty well for a long time by funnelling alcohol/cigarette taxes into the pot to fund it. I wonder what your gov't does with those "sin taxes"?

I, for one, have enjoyed the benefits of not having to "afford to be sick". I'm not sick very often to justify going to the Dr., but my Mom has been having Cancer treatments for a year and a half. That kind of treatment is very costly, and she would now be broke, and have used up all her financial resources. Her spouse would be left with nothing in her old age when my mother does pass.

I'm glad that the system works for you. I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but it sounds like your socialized healthcare has done most that you have needed. If I thought that America could run the program, then I would be glad to participate in that program. I am not convinced that the American government can run such a large program. I also am not a believer in giving the government much power either. To each his own. I'm glad it works for you!

Quite honestly, I don't think I would trust YOUR gov't either. But who knows, maybe there will be change for good with Obama. I live in hope. Only time will tell.

Yes, I feel very fortunate to live in Canada, that's for sure. I am very disappointed with the US government's choices on MANY issues. Mostly because of how it affects us here, since we seem to be such close friends we often mirror each other so much, as nations. My greatest fear is that Canada will continue to follow the US lead on too many key issues that make Canada, well, Canada. We have always been know to be a peace loving nation that takes care of it's own, but defends it's allies. I resent being dragged into some of Bush's war mongering efforts. I'm very glad he is out.

Call me stupid, but who is Michael Moore, what does it have to do with the subject here and I don't understand the "sicko" remark. But I want to.

Please explain.

"Sicko" was documentary done by Michael Moore (www.michaelmoore.com) extolling the virtues of socialized medical care. He represented many countries, but blasted the US's health care system (rightly so, IMO).

Thanks. I did a quick internet search, but just found out he was a comedian and wasn't interested in researching him further. I hoped you would explain your reference, as you have, so I could understand the comment.

My 2 favourite comedians were Eddie Murphy and George Carlin. Saw both down in Toronto years ago. I've never gone in for the ones that do those 'nasty' or 'gimmick' routines, so I guess that's why I never ran across MM's work.

Am LOL-ing at Moore being a comedian, how apropos!
the only thing funny about him is his slovenliness.

Yes, I feel terrible for you down in the US. We don't suffer without healthcare because we can't afford it here in Canada.

I worked for a time with a woman in Arizona who was from Canada and she said she'd move back to Canada in a heartbeat to get the types of benefits you all get. I think we could learn alot from your country. Thanks for responding to me. Namaste-Anora

There's a reason they're poor. Most waste their lives.

What an insensitive, flip comment to make, WOW!

Essentially you are saying that it is the poor people's fault that they are poor.

Try again, only this time, use some facts to back up your claims. Do some research first before your mouth runs away with you.

You're way off the mark here, young lady.

"there's a reason why they're poor"... really? DO explain, I'd love to know why my mother had to struggle so hard to raise 3 kids after her husband died. I'd love to you to tell me why cancer decided to eliminate all funds and excess from my home.

Oh enlightened one, please give us your almighty opinions!!! (u do realize you came off sounding overly judgmental towards the poor and working poor at large?)I'd like you to defend your statement.

Again, good for Canada. Gold star.

I AM, in fact, part of the lower-end of the income scale. Right now, I blame my parents directly. And hey, I see the mitigating circumstance. Sorry for it.

Ah, politics. I love it. However frustrating I can make myself reading about them.

What could your parents have done to eliminate the possibility of being or becoming "working poor"? In an ideal world, we would only have kids when we were financially secure, or only become ill when we were covered. Mitigating circumstances have EVERYTHING to do wealth, or the lack there of.

BTW, I enjoy talking to you Becky, I like teens and the perspectives they can share.

Annie, if the Big C comes back, I'm heading north 2 Edmonton...

is that a problem in Canada? Americans clogging up your system?

Not to my knowledge, Jodie. I believe you are welcome here. Actually, there are many that enjoy a form of dual citizenship. And don't forget the SnowBirds. Those are older folks that the Dr. has given a prescription (sort of) to go and live somewhere warmer in the winter. Like people with terrible arthritis and such. They live half the year here and the other half in Florida. So long as they are here in Canada for more than 1/2 the year (literally count the days), they can enjoy all the benefits of Canadian Citizenship. Neat, eh?

I find it really interesting that at 18 yrs old you already know everything.

But then we all did at that age.*sigh*

Young lady, you have assumed incorrectly on all counts, I'm afraid.

I am very proud of our healthcare system in Canada. At least our government here uses the "sin taxes" (alcohol/cigarettes) to fund it for us. I wonder what the US is doing with that money, eh?

It just makes me sick that people have to be rich to be able to afford life saving surgeries, or serious medical conditions like cancer.

Can you say, right now, that if you were diagnosed with cancer, that you could afford the $250,000/yr it would cost just to keep you alive? I don't think so. SO I guess that makes you one of those "poor people that have wasted their lives" then, eh?

It must be nice to be eighteen and have your parents pay for everything. Becky, are you aware of the economic realities of this world at all?
Physicians will still have to train the same way, the only difference there will be is who signs their paychecks. Doctors in England, Canada, Finland don't go without their Mercedes' or the billion dollar homes, or any other "perk". The difference is the pharmaceutical companies don't own the hospitals & Dr's and drug stores. Surely you cant be so blinded by youth that you can't see this?
Minor injuries would never take precedence over serious medical emergencies. Record keeping would be mainstreamed into a National system, thus cutting down on those hypochondriacs clogging the system. Drug abusers (prescribers and end users) would be caught and convicted rapidly with this system.
Munchausen's? It's a fabricated illness, you should read about it.
By the way, the capitalist health care theory has proven NOT to work. the only ones making fist fulls of cash are pharmaceutical companies.

Well lucky you. Your government cares.

In America, I STILL don't think it would work. Canada? Fine. I Don't quite care. I don't live there. England? Maybe I'll mover there and see for myself someday.

But I'll humour both of you and do some fact-checking on this and pull out my opinion.

And on the "there's a reason they're poor"...I knew I'd fire some heads with that one. I counted for a mitigating circumstance, kay. But all the people I'VE ever seen SHELL THEIR MONEY ON ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTES! My parents are two such folk, and I wholly know about their WASTE. There's a reason we're poor. But hey, we have the FREEDOM to fail. Unfortunately, the failures aren't such a good role model, are they?

Here's my thoughts:
My country's in a good bit of debt. I'm sure of it(7.8 Trillion good?). And I'm still looking, but I think our taxes suck too. Last source: The USA has the highest corporate income tax rate, in the world. What do you do if the companies that pay everyone also pay a 33.8% (or so) tax rate? I don't think that in practice there would be enough money in civilian hands for paying the tax burden, since the government won't just team up and fix everything for good, because there's a great many things that can be done to enable everyone to fix themselves that could save money AND better the SOCIETY instead of just the ECONOMY (and WHY does everyone gripe 'economy' this, 'economy' that? SOCIETY is a blasted mess! Say all you like, but I have not seen anything to prove me wrong, and trust me, I look. Prove me ENTIRELY wrong, I honestly beg of you. Not one-time testimonials or sweet sap stories, but give me a good look at an America or a world not being torn by anger and Nationalism as the New God and filled with greedy government). I digress. -insert loud sigh-

But I still don't think the government needs to be plugging in on our healthcare! We should choose! I don't think I could ever live knowing that big brother's controlling my medicine. Urgh.

I think the only reason the capitalist system doesn't work is that people are too addicted to capital. Socialism...I just don't like it.

Ah..I love doing this.

NEWS FLASH....Big brother is already controlling your medicine. All US medicines must be approved by the FDA. The gov't decided that only pharmaceuticals are approved for coverage, that way the money (read control) stays in their hands. Holistic, natural or homeopathic remedies are shunned, when many of those could be utilized (and are) to alleviate sufferance solely or in conjunction with pharmaceuticals. No one thing is a cure all, but ALL possible remedies should be utilized, like you say, FREE CHOICE. Not all remedies work for all people. We are all different and our bodily systems will react differently to each remedy.

I think the reason the US system doesn't work is because of corruption and greed. Yours is a greedy nation, like you say, addicted to capitalism. Ours is somewhat more socialist, so yeah, we care about the little guy. And we have a conscience. I think that is why it works.

England is socialist, through and through. So if you went there you would know what it was all about. I would plan a visit there, too, if you can.

But Canada, well, we're a cross between Socialism and Capitalism. A nice cross, I think. We started out as a British Colony, which is where the socialism structure began, but in being next door neighbours and such close allies with the US, we have adopted many Capitalism traits as well.

I am glad though, that you are interested in your country's political and social structures. Not many your age even care. They're just looking for their next party or free meal ticket.

I think you should come and visit Canada someday. I think you may just like it here. Maybe put it on your list of places you would like to visit and maybe settle someday. I mean, we're not perfect, nowhere is. But I'm proud to call it my home.

I feel sorry for your low class roots and the conditions you must have suffered starting out with alcoholic parents. So, I see where your negativity comes from. But, you do not have to be like them. YOU HAVE A CHOICE. Keep searching for knowledge in this world, and keep your mind open, and you will find a better life for yourself than they did. Let some optimism in your door, you'll be surprised where it may lead you. Maybe you could be the President someday and make change for the better in your nation. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE! You only need to set your goals high to acheive them.

wow, I really couldn't have said it any better Annie. Listen to Annie, Becky, she knows stuff!

I just think it would be nice to be able to go to the doctor when I am sick. I can not afford to do this now. The drug companies control the entire industry, and the doctors seem to be in bed with each other. You can't go see a "specialist" unless you see a regular doctor, PAY HIM FOR AN OFFICE VISIT, and get him to "refer" you to the specialist. Then you have to pay the "specialists" for an office business and for treatment. Then, the specialist usually finds something else that you may need treatment for, but instead of sending you on to another "specialist" to get treated for it, they tell you to go see your regular doctor, meaning that you have to PAY THE REGULAR DOCTOR FOR ANOTHER OFFICE VISIT, get a referral to the other so-called "specialist", and then pay the other specialist for a visit and for treatment.

It seems to me that the only thing a doctor "specializes" in is making money for himself and for other doctors...

I think socialized medicine is like every thing else in life. It will have its good and bad points. I have heard good things, and bad things, about socialized medicine. However, I also know that a lot of people who need to go to the doctor cannot afford to do so, because they cannot afford to pay for the office visits. The medicines are also so expensive that people cannot afford to buy them. I know people who go to the doctor and get a prescription, only to find out that they cannot afford to get the prescription filled when they get to the pharmacy. It is for this reason that I am leaning towards supporting socialized medicine....

goldeneagle.....

Here in Canada it sort of works like that, too, except of course you, the patient just show your "Health Card" and the gov't foots the bill, so you aren't worried about payment. But your Family Physician is supposed to screen people who want to clog up the Specialists, to make sure that they 'need' a Specialist and that type of specialist. Plus, to justify the cost of the Specialist.

But even that is getting more lenient. Some specialists, you can just find and call up yourself and make an appt with. They can just call your Dr. and ask for copies of your medical records to see if a visit with them IS warranted. And Chiropractors, too. We used to have to get a "referral" from our Family physician, for it to be covered. But my husband's benefits package with his Union covers our visits there, up to a maximum of $500/yr each, without anyone referring us.

Every Dr. you visit now, just sends copies of whatever they did to or for you back to them for a central database of all your medical treatments. Your family physician isn't always responsible for referring you any more. It reduces alot of red tape and is a definite improvement.

If the rich choose not to use the free gov't paid for medicine available for them, that is fine. It gives more resources to the people who cannot afford paying extra for it. I see nothing wrong with that at all. But at least it IS available to everyone, regardless of their income level. Nobody dies because they cannot afford to see a Dr. That is the point.

And we here in Canada do not routinely go to the US for all surgery. We have plenty of surgeons here. Everyone in the world can outsource a specific treatment in another country SOMETIMES when they feel it is the better choice or not available in their home country AND they can afford it. Again, nothing wrong with that. But not the norm by any means as you have stated.

And we have both systems in place here. There are insurance companies that cover medical, dental and prescription drugs costs that exceed what is covered by our National Plan. You can pay into those yourself or through your employer.

I think you are soured by YOUR country's lack of medical care for it's peoples. I think your system is one of the WORST in the world, where the sick are not cared for if they have no money for it. Yet your country, being one of the SuperPowers, SHOULD be taking care of it's people. I think it is despicable. Way too much US resources is wasted and debt is accumulated for uneccesary WARS.

And Canada's health care model is one of the BEST IN THE WORLD, I'll have you know. I live here, so I know. Come here and live, then try and disagree with me. Until then, I don't think you can.

I have very dear friends who live in Canada, England and Amsterdam, so I can only tell you what I've been told by them. They love it. They have no concept of what it's like to have to decide which to pay for food or meds. All offered me use of their homes if I wanted to come to their countries for treatment. I declined, at the time, feeling it was amoral to take a foreign countries benefits from it's own citizens. I would have to rethink that decision if I were in the situation now.

Insurance has ruined the entire system. and GREED is the motivator now, not giving medical care to those who need it, rich or poor.

I live in Canada, so you just asked me. And I'm gonna tell ya!

I LOVE IT! My mother has MS and was just diagnosed with Cancer a year ago. She hasn't had to spend a cent, and was rushed down to Toronto for treatments immediately as soon as she was diagnosed. We even have Volunteers who drove her from her town, 2 hrs North.

Read some of the other post we've made in this thread and you will save me repeating myself so you will be more informed.

The only thing we have to pay for ourselves is our prescriptions and dental. But those are often covered in a group insurance plan with your employer, as a benefit. At income tax time you are taxed on every dollar they pay on your behalf as if it is earnings, but at least you don't have to come up with the money when you need the medications.

And the flaws with your Medicaid, Medicare system is caused by the LACK of coverage by your gov't. People wouldn't feel the need to defraud if it was considered a basic necessity of life like it is here in Canada. Quite honestly, I don't blame people for defrauding. They are sick, and need medication for crying out loud. As far as I am concerned, denying your country's people proper medical care is an atrocity. Especially for a country as rich as the US. It is just a further testament to how greedy they really are.

After reading the two responses to my response, I thought I might be wrong about my feelings and decided to investigate more fully. I learned the following:

Claude Castonguay, the man who developed Canada's socialized medicine 40 years ago, has concluded that the socialized medicine system is in "crisis." I can only imagine that's because the cost has gotten too high, the waiting period for major operations has gotten too long, and the quality of care has gone down.

Free isn't really free. Since the consumer won't be paying for the medical attention he receives, the cost will be paid by the taxpayer who has been coerced into paying for it. Socialized medicine is government by force.

The government would have a monopoly on coverage. When there's no competition between insurance companies, costs go up and quality goes down.

0 cost= increase demand= drop in supply= shortages= less efficiency.