Oh yeah, Ezekiel Emanuel promotes euthansia alright!  |
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 I keep hearing that Exekiel Emanuel is some prophet of death. Listen to the conservatives and they will have you believe he is right up there with Adolph Hitler and the KKK, ready to go around pulling the plug on senior citizens and tossing premature babies out of the ICU.
Want to know what he REALLY said about euthanasia?
"The proper policy, in my view, should be to affirm the status of physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia as illegal. In so doing we would affirm that as a society we condemn ending a patient's life and do not consider that to have one's life ended by a doctor is a right. This does not mean we deny that in exceptional cases interventions are appropriate, as acts of desperation when all other elements of treatment- all medications, surgical procedures, psychotherapy, spiritual care, and so on- have been tried. Physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia should not be performed simply because a patient is depressed, tired of life, worried about being a burden, or worried about being dependent. All these may be signs that not every effort has yet been made.
By establishing a social policy that keeps physician-assisted suicide and euthanasia illegal but recognizes exceptions, we would adopt the correct moral view: the onus of proving that everything had been tried and that the motivation and rationale were convincing would rest on those who wanted to end a life."
"Whose Right to Die?," The Atlantic, Mar. 1997
Oh, yeah, that's the horrible deathmonger for you. First off, he says that euthanasia should be illegal. Then he says that maybe, in EXTREME cases, there should be exceptions.
I ask his detractors: How many 85 year old terminal cancer patient's bedsides have you sat at, and how can you mandate that their suffering must continue against their will?
And even if you DO feel that euthanasia is ALWAYS wrong (I position I can respect, though not agree with) how do you take the statement Emanuel made and extrapolate it to turn him into some kind of monster?
I will have to do more research on this guy, but he certainly doesn't seem like Hitler to me.
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1.  EnemyofEmpire (143) | 4 months ago |  At last!!!
Somebody finally went and read the original Atlantic article. You wouldn't like to forward a copy to moosegirl would you? I'd like to see her eat it.
"How do you take the statement Emanuel made and extrapolate it to turn him into some kind of monster?"
Just pick up a copy of 'Death Panels for Dummies'
Step 1) Remove brain
Step 2) Pin a Republican badge on
Step 3) Turn on TV
Step 4) Tune into Fox News
Step 5) Step outside of reality
And there you go, it's that easy, 5 steps to insanity.
Thank you very much, I'll be back later to see how many of the pit bulls ask you for your birth certificate. They will, they already asked to see mine, and I don't even live there.
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 dawnald (10157) | 4 months ago |  You can't produce your birth certificate. You aren't a real person, remember?
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| EnemyofEmpire (143) | 4 months ago | Ooh, I forgot about that. No probs, I'll just email some Kenyan friends of mine, I'm sure they'll put something together for me. | |
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| dawnald (10157) | 4 months ago | You're gonna have to wait a while though, I hear there's a backlog! | |
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2.  irishidid (3062) | 4 months ago |  Is there a link?
As someone who is for physician assisted euthanasia with the strictest of guidelines, laws, etc. I believe the debate needs to be taken seriously.
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| EnemyofEmpire (143) | 4 months ago | Anything to oblige. You can find the full article at:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199703/euthanasia | |
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| dawnald (10157) | 4 months ago | Interesting reading... | |
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3.  Rollo1 (1624) | 4 months ago |  This post contains content of a mature nature. You must be Signed in or Registered to have the option to view this content.
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| irishidid (3062) | 4 months ago | I think it is important to find all the words of a person and not just what supports our thinking. Good find, Rollo. | |
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| EnemyofEmpire (143) | 4 months ago | Have you got a link to the Lancet article?
I'd be very interested to read it because this is the problem when people cherry pick other people's words, put their own spin on them and the media splash them out as soundbites. It leaves little room for informed and reasoned debate. Instead we have the proposed healthcare reform bill framed in terms of 'death panels'. This does no favours to either side. Thank you for an informed response, it makes a change in this section. | |
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| opalina143 (678) | 4 months ago | I would like a link as well. | |
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 nyhollyjean (341) | 4 months ago |  The link to the Lancet article is included below. The article was written as a possible answer to the ethical questions regarding allotments when it comes to very scarce medical interventions regarding certain vaccines and organ donations. The primary subject of the article does not address euthanasia.
Title: "Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions"
Vol. 373 Issue 9661 p. 423-431 January 31, 2009
Authors: Gorind Persad, BS, Alan Wertheimer, PhD, Ezekial Emanual, MD
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(09)60137-9/fulltext
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| Rollo1 (1624) | 4 months ago | The article covers more than just organs and vaccines as the opening paragraph indicates:
"In health care, as elsewhere, scarcity is the mother of
allocation. Although the extent is debated, the scarcity
of many specific interventions—including beds in
intensive care units, organs, and vaccines during
pandemic influenza—is widely acknowledged. For some
interventions, demand exceeds supply. For others, an
increased supply would necessitate redirection of
important resources, and allocation decisions would
be necessary."
Note that in the last part of the paragraph he says there will still be a need for allocation even if there is an increased supply for medical interventions.
You can't read the whole article there, unless you are registered with The Lancet. But you can get it here:
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache%3ACtQpt9HM7aoJ%3Awww.ncpa.org%2Fpdfs%2FPIIS0140673609601379.pdf+emanuel+principles&hl=en&gl=us&pli=1 | |
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| Rollo1 (1624) | 4 months ago | Sorry, the correct link is this
www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf
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| 4. xfahctor (5549) | 4 months ago |  A couple others already provided links to other writings and words by this guy, sO I won't add to it, what was put in here alone was more than enough I think. I want to adress a broader point though. I understand how difficult it is to believe that people who would say the things being talked about, could actually wind up in our government and the natural tendencey is to try and find other ocntext fot ehwords. Unfortunately Opal, this IS the context, what is being reported IS real, they DID actually say these things IN context. I beg you, go look up the others too, there are a number of apoitees wuth some pertty out ther and chilling ideologies and they DID in fact, slip in to our government.
Time to wake up america. Yes, what you are seeing happen in our government IS real, yes, these people REALLY believe these things and they are counting on YOU to not react or care or notice.
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| 5. dawnald (10157) | 4 months ago | I read the entire thing. I think he makes some good points. If we are to allow physician assisted euthanasia in any form, it makes much more sense to err on the side of preserving life, but allowing exceptions as opposed to the other way around. Legalizing it paves the way for rampant abuse, I think. | |
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| 6. nyhollyjean (341) | 4 months ago | I think it's important to remember that Dr. Emanual and the two other authors are scientists. They were giving their views from a scientific perspective, based on certain criteria. I don't believe that there were any statements made in either the Atlantic Monthly or The Lancet articles that stated that these conclusions were supposed to become policy, politically, socially or ethically. The statements made were scientific conclusions based on research. Professional scientists are specifically trained to keep their personal feelings and agendas out of their research, or it negates their findings and ruins their credibility.
Scientific conclusions can appear to be harsh,cold and factual, but by necessity, they must be.
It's how those articles have been interpreted that have caused an outcry. The scientist doesn't have control over the conclusions that others make, good, bad or indifferent. | |
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