The Drug War was declared by President Nixon, is it a success?  

Drug sense is for the end of illegal drugs. The facts that they are promoting about our spending is factual material, studies done by other agencies.

Holland has reduced their addiction rates by 80% over the last decade. The idea is that if there is no one making money on the sell of the drugs there are no new addicts.

In 2009 less than .8% of the drug war money was spent on recovery from addiction.

If you have to declare your addiction to a doctor to continue getting your drugs than you are exposed to getting help with your problem, reducing HIV and other very expensive to treat diseases. Several countries have taken step's to legalize drugs and all of them have had different results, some more positive than others.
But almost all of them have seen reductions in drug use and have started taking back their neighborhoods.

http://www.csdp.org has some very good ideas.

50 years of fighting this problem and every year the amount of drugs coming into the country increases, the number of diseases increase because of the addictions and the gun companies sell several thousand more weapons, so what is the answer? I am just suggesting that we might try another approach and look to some examples of success as a template.

I am not suggesting that a 13 year old be able to ask his doctor to give him a script for heroin or crack, in fact, how many doctors would give him one. As it is all the 13 year old has to do now is ask a neighbor or friend.

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Those country's that have had success with legalizing drugs have made addicts register themselves with a program or doctor and yes they are given drugs as long as they want them but at the same time they are introduced to treatment and others that are in recovery and most drug addicts, with the exception of heroin and alcohol, bottom out very quickly and ask for treatment.

We do not have treatment on demand, yet, in America so the folks who do want help normally have to wait weeks and months to get treatment so their only option is to keep using which ussually gets them in jail before treatment.

If the doctors are giving away drugs to a registered addict than there is no marketplace for the drug dealers. Pretty hard to make a dime when your competition (the government) is giving it away. No market, no dealers.

No one is suggesting that anyone who wants crack can get it by walking into their local drug store. This is the very reason some country's have reduced their new addict percentage by huge numbers. What responsible doctor is going to give a 13 year old a perscription for crack unless thay are already addicted.

Not all drug users are addicts and you can't have it both ways...providing drugs for addicts but not allowing the recreational use of those same drugs by consenting adults who are not addicts. Either drugs are legalized or they're not.

You need to take a closer look at what other countries have gone through following the decriminalization of drugs and why they have changed their policies. Great Britain, the Netherlands and Switzerland are 3 you might want to look at.

Well many addicts in the United States are actually legal addicts they have a script for their drug then all of a sudden they are taken off and they turn to street drugs. Myself I dont think marjuina is a gateway I believe legal meds are the gateway to an addiction. How many times I have heard well I was on perks for 2 months with my broken leg, already addicted I seeked them out illegally I could not function! Before you know it they are taking perks, oxicotin, and then on to the really big guns of HEROIN.

Spalladino can you see it now, both you and I have husbands that suffer from military disabilities, some more prone to drug addiction more than others. Mental disorders now imagine if they could just go to the doc and ask for 1000 perks for the month... sometimes people just dont make sense to me.

I agree about prescription drugs...they have become the new gateway and a huge problem. People become addicted for several reasons...they're prone to it genetically or they take enough to feel the *buzz* and that level activates the addiction areas of the brain. Too much access...too little understanding. The last thing we need is for people to be able to get them easier.

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Great response,
So rare to find someone who knows about this subject and see's it as an economic and societal issue.

Some estimate's are that if we spent 2% of the drug war money on treatment that we could produce a 20% gain in our base economy just getting folks back into the work place.

After looking at this for years I would like us to look at the Holland model more. They have reduced addiction by 80% over the last decade by legalizing all drugs through their medical practices.

80%?!?!?! That's staggering! And here we don't have those laid back practices when it comes to drugs and our addiction rate is skyrocketing. If that 2% can produce a 20% gain in our base economy then it is definitely not in our governments interest either. They also profit by keeping middle and lower class citizens exactly where there are, broke and struggling. They profit from our addictions and our subsequent imprisonment due to drug related crimes. Yes this problem is bigger than just the traffic of the drugs themselves. There is a clear agenda in process here and if we are truly waging a war on drugs, we are losing.


Thank you for the stimulating conversation and the best response....

shamsta, I just don't know where to begin. The major suppliers of the drugs you listed at the top are not rich businessmen. You should do some research...those drugs are smuggled into this country by people from other countries who we have no control over. They have no deals with our government, they're making a fortune, are heavily armed and organized...they operate outside of the law. Our boarder and coastal states work hard to fight the constant onslaught from the ground, air and sea by drug smugglers. The state of Florida alone has over 1,100 miles of coastline, the Everglades is huge with many remote areas where drugs are dropped from small planes. The government cannot go after the major traffickers because they are not in the U.S.

Your opinion that cocaine is a rich person's drug is very wrong. That may have been true a long time ago but, because the availability has increased over time, the cost has gone down. I don't know how you can blame the government for drug related crime or how you believe they are making money off of the suffering of others. You mention the folks in prison yet overlook the cost of housing them. You also overlook the numerous families of those who are incarcerated who have to resosrt to public assistance and food stamps in order to survive which, again, the government pays for.

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Fact is the price of cocaine has increased over the years it is the availability that has increased but the price as compared to just ten years ago is astronomical.


BTW: When gas prices go up so do the cocaine prices, it takes gasoline to process cocaine and as the cost rises it effects the price of powder.

Shamsta, I'm not a man and I don't get my information from tv. You cite two outdated, poor examples of our government's so called duplicity with the international drug trade. Noriega was captured, put on trial and incarcerated by the U.S. and Escobar was killed by officials in his own country. Their activities ended 20 years ago. Do you have anything more recent other than the ridiculous claim that we have troops in Afghanistan because we want herion? Is that why they're destroying the poppy fields?

You've been to Florida? I live in Florida, my husband is a biker. We're both over 50 and have used certain drugs recreationally in the past. It's not good for our health to be snorting coke at our age but we do know people among the wide circle of folks we ride with who do and, once again, the facts are that it hasn't been a rick man's drug for a very long time. You can get a gram of coke in most areas of the southern states for $20...an 8 ball, which is about 3 1/2 grams costs about $65 - $70. It's a little more expensive in the far northern states. Most folks buy a gram which, by the way, is much more than the little crack rock you get for $10 and, if you want to share, is enough to get 3 or 4 people nicely high. I have never heard or read anywhere that the price of coke fluxuates with the price of gasoline and, since you obviously don't know, it's also processed using alcohol.

You are right about one thing...the people who smuggle drugs into this country do have help inside of our boarders but that help does not come from rich businessmen or government agencies. As I posted above, the drug cartels are organized and part of their organization is in the U.S. Once the drugs arrive they are transported across the country by people who work for *them* to distributors who also work for *them*. There is a connection to organized crime in this country but the Gambino crime family isn't exactly an example of business. The street dealers are at the bottom rung of the food chain.

You keep saying that the governmet profits from putting street dealers in prison but you have yet to give on example of how. The government is supported by the taxpayers so, if the taxpayers are paying for this and the increased cost of welfare, the government does not profit.

If it cost the taxpayers any money at all the US government always gets their cut. Screwdrivers don't cost 800 dollars last time I checked. And I need to come to Florida if the prices are looking like you say. It is not the same where I am and I live in South Carolina. (8balls??? $165) Needless to say it would seem we both know a thing or two about that.


I have never read the fact about gasoline either just noticed a steady trend over the years and it so happens it takes gasoline (and alcohol) to process cocaine. If this is the case, which apparently it is, then guess who controls all of our oil resources? The US government!! And they turn a hefty profit in doing so. Anytime one of these guys is imprisoned and taxpayers are paying for that, guess who that money goes too? Our US government. And minus the cost of housing a prisoner, I'm sure there is a profit in this business or else how would Prison Warden's get a paycheck??? Comes from the state (ie:government) and is paid out by the American taxpayer.


A more current example? I gave several but how about the question I posed in the first place? Why does one get more prison time for selling illegal drugs than for murder in this country? How can this possibly be justified? And who is profiting from this trend? You actually believe their is no profit in imprisonment? Prisons are springing up all around the nation faster than schools. It is because Imprisonment is also big business. And our good ole US government makes a nice chunk of change from locking people up.


And just because drug dealing may not be a legal business, it is still a "business" nonetheless and there are "rich businessmen" in the profession. Just because you don't consider them as such doesn't change the fact these guys operate businesses, some own real estate, land, companies, etc. I'd say the Gambino family is an excellent example of American business practice. The guys on Wall Street are just as conniving and cutthroat as they are..

And those people smuggling drugs into this country have help from many sources I am sure. I'm not just saying some government agency is aiding them openly like that, obviously. But even you can't tell me security down there in Florida is all that it's cracked up to be. And if the statistic exists that 80% of the drugs smuggled in through that state go untouched by any law enforcement agency, obviously someone knows they aren't doing enough. And even the efforts that are taken are funded by the American taxpayer, funneled through the US government again who has their hands in the cookie jar before anyone else sees any of this funding.



And I still have no idea what we are doing in Afghanistan either. And I didn't mean to call you "man" I meant it more figuratively but I still didn't know if you were male or female.. No disrespect.. And I never watch tv..

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AnnieOakley1
Not sure where you live but since Obama told them to stop busting the pot shops in California there was one major push back by the DEA. I think the president had a little discussion about that because some friends of mine said there were some folks that got canned.

The Feds have totally back off of the despencery's here. The problem now is that local community's are trying to figure out how to get them into the business system. Where they can open a store, how to pay taxes and similar problems. It is moving forward here and looks like it will become legal by the voters in November.

Shamsta 19,
I agree with most of what you say but you and several others have talked about how the government profits from locking people up and I do not understand that concept.

First off, I am in California where the prison system is costing the state more money than any other one service. We do not allow work farms so they don't make any money off the prisoners.

The incredibly stupid three strikes law is bankrupting the state.
The union for the gaurds is so powerful that they control everything in the state from the governor to local elections.

Education will never get funding with half the population in jail. How is this profitable for anyone except the drug dearlers and the prison gaurds.

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More info on this subject from Alex Jones and Rick Ross(Former Drug dealer currently incarcerated)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsQQTWI_gcU&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/wa...

And thank you for the best response. I think I can speak intelligently and passionate about this subject because of the things I have gone through in life. I have a brother who is currently incarcerated as well. I guess I always pay attention to all that political stuff too... Keeping my eyes open.. Thanks for the great discussion..

Changing policy and looking at new ideas does not always mean "joining them".

Our country used to look at creative concepts and ideas about fixing things, now it has become black and white, right and wrong, throwing money at it and hoping that it sticks.

Most good solutions always cost the least.

joining them would fall under legalization. With legalization you take away all of the drug lords power.

You also create an amazing amount of revenue for the states, and the growers. You can grow pot much cheaper than any other crop, and the yield is hundreds of times more profitable than anything grown today. It is a win, win for everyone.

omg debater - we agree!!

Better write this date down somewhere

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you are right which is all the more reason we should do it!

Oh I agree 100%

And our farmers could grow hemp again, once the largest crop in this country because of it's many uses and small water footprint.

Exactly, it is a win/win situation for everyone involved.

Yes, debater, and us farmers are barely keeping our head's above water as it is. It only gets worse every year. Less and less of the young generation get into farming, certainly not enough to replace the aging farming population that is retiring. So, if this trend keeps up, we'll soon be buying our food from other countries, because it can be produced cheaper and with lower health standards.

I know legalizing MJ is the right way to go, but the politicians won't condone it because they are still making more (bribes) by keeping it illegal. Plus the paper and pharmaceutical companies keep pressure (and bribes) on the politicians to help ensure drugs stay illegal, particularly MJ since it is so versatile, cheap and useful.

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From most of the discussions it seems that some of the people get the problem. Why can't we as a nation try new things to fix old problems?