The "missing" Commandments
By maildumpster
@maildumpster (3815)
United States
July 16, 2007 10:51am CST
Someone asked in a different discussion which commandment the Roman Catholic church removed. I decided I would finally post the discussion I have had in mind for some time now.
I was raised Roman Catholic and believe me when I started reading the bible I almost dropped because the 10 Commandments that were there didn't match the ones the church had taught me.
Here are the 10 Commandments as the Catholic church teaches them:
1-I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
2-Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3-Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
4-Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
5-Thou shalt not kill.
6-Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7-Thou shalt not steal.
8-Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9-Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.
10-Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.
The bible's version of the 10 commandments:
1. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is thy neighbor's.
So the MISSING commandment (so to speak) is the 3rd. The one that commands us not to have graven images. The one that would prevent them from having all the images of saints and Mary and what not that they light candles in front of and pray before.
What I find really funny is that the Roman Catholic church has a different bible (includes extra books) BUT if you look in it the 10 commandments are God's 10 Commandments and NOT their version!!! Hhmmm maybe that is why the RC church told people for years NOT to read the bible. Maybe that is why when you go into a protestant church (and I am using that term generically to mean a church that is bible based and not dependant on the RC church); you will see bibles for just about every seat in the church but you don't find them in Catholic churches.
So what do you think? I would love to hear everyone's opinions!!
6 people like this
13 responses
@raisingsaints (217)
• United States
16 Jul 07
You haven't read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It very clearly states that as part of the First Commandment, "you shall not make for yourself a graven image...".
Just look in the Table of Contents.
www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
Disagree with Catholics all you want, but don't misrepresent what they teach:)
3 people like this
@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
16 Jul 07
Sorry but I am not misrepresenting what they teach. I was raised in the Catholic church. I went to CCD. I even went to Catholic school for a few years. My entire family and my in laws are all Roman Catholic. I DO know what they teach. I hadn't even really given the Catholic 10 Commandments much thought until the day my hubby realized that my mother in law (a DEVOUT Roman Catholic) didn't know ANYTHING about not making graven images.
Let's see last I checked the Pope is considered infallible. Then something coming from the vatican should be a reliable source right? Well then here is what the Vatican says the catechism of the church says about the 1st commandment......
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/command.htm
Sure looks to me like the whole "don't make graven images" is missing, isn't it? So the Vatican is wrong and the Catechism of the Catholic Church is correct? Somebody alert the Vatican quick! *** sorry just kidding with that last part; hoping to lighten the mood a bit ;)
We go back to the bible being the word of God and the ulimate authority. If that is so and the bible says that it God's commands should not be added to or taken away from; then why is that part missing. Why do so few Roman Catholics even know that exists? Because they aren't thought it.
Oh and if the bible is the word of God and His is the ultimate authority then why to we need books of catechism? Why not just go to the source? That's the part I strugle the most with.
Look I know that you strongly support the Roman Catholic church and I admire your tenacity and dedication. Please don't think that I am attacking you. Please do try to understand that. Also, please try to understand that I am well versed in Catholic teachings. (just as a side note that really has nothing to do with anything but thought you might be interested - my cousin met her husband through a Catholic online dating something or other and ended up on a show on the Catholic network (TLWN I think??) )
I am the only one in my family to leave the catholic church (and I am not talking about lapsed Catholics who still call themselves Catholic; cause I am sure there are a few here and there in my family). My husband is the only one in his family. We are up to our eyeballs in Catholics so I do have a pretty good idea of what I am talking about.
1 person likes this
@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Because I don't agree with the teachings of the church and will not support them does not mean that I do not know them.
As far as I am concerned you know very well how to support your religion. You have yet to show me that YOU actually know what the bible says.
Sorry I am not trying to get nasty but you know I am tired of you telling me I don't know what I was taught and what I lived.
I know you have seen me mention that I went to Catholic school. What you don't know it that I CHOSE that in middle school. I even asked to go to Catholic high school! My parents refused but that is a different issue. I WAS Catholic. I would make my parents take me to church. I even considered (however briefly) becoming a nun. And for your information my family and my in laws CONTINUE to be a source of information for me as things within the RC church change.
I also know that you know that a nun helped me leave the RC church when she couldn't support her teachings with scripture. I THANK GOD for Sister Helena Margaret!!! Without her I may not have truly found God as I have.
Oh and by the way NO one taught me that RCs were idolaters. Going to Our Lady of Peace church and school taught me that! May crowning taught me that. Lighting candles in front of statues taught me that. I figured that out for myself BEFORE I even left the church. I didn't even know a protestant. Back then I was naive enough to think everyone was Catholic or Jewish.
@CoffeeAnyone (3210)
• Canada
16 Jul 07
Yes that is one thing that as a young girl I did not understand. I knew the 10 commandments so my first time visiting a church that had statues or a family that had a lot of statues really threw me off! I would ask my catholic friends why there were statues? They said oh the bible doesn't mean we can't have statues that is not what the scripture means. When I was young I decided to start reading my own bible plus pay attention at Sunday School. I really didn't understand a lot of it but I did think I understood we were not to have these images but then I also learn't we were not suppose to call anyone Father (priest)or suppose to pray to anyone ( mary or Saints)but God the Father through Jesus the Son! So I would ask my catholic friends and they said I just didn't understand the bible and that is why the priest was the only one allowed to deliver the word of God! I remember going to the catholic chruch and waiting for my friend to do her confession before we went to store. I asked her why she was confessing her sins to the priest? She said because the bible said so! I said I learnt that the bible says to confess to God and also we can confess our faults one another so that we can be healed but I didn't see or hear that we were to confess to a priest! She said the priest is filling in for God. But isn't God everywhere I ask? She said no God cannot be everywhere at once listening to every prayer so we need the priest! So needless to say when I was younger I was sure my friend was in the wrong church! As I got older I realize no church is perfect and that God sees the heart! So no matter where we all attend church as long as it is a bible believing church we need to make sure our hearts are right before God!
2 people like this
@GardenGerty (169479)
• United States
16 Jul 07
I really like your point about the third commandment, and that was new to me. About the Bibles--the RC did not do KJV, the granddaddy of all protestant Bibles because it was just that, a Bible paid for by an Anglican King, and somewhat slanted, I am told, to some of his agendas. I like the new translations for meaning, the ones that go directly back to the original language texts and start from there, with good scholarly support. The Catholic Bible or Doay version was on an equal with KJV, that is, it is a Catholic translation. The books of the Apocrypha used to be accepted by every body, but a church council, based on Biblical standards and understanding, found them to not be of merit to the growing Christian community, and to, some of them, be fables and stories, designed to be uplifting, but not of the equivalent of God inspired scripture. If I could remember all of my classes I took thirty five years ago, I could name the council and tell a lot more than this. There is nothing wrong with reading the Apocrypha, and more than any other spiritually based fiction. The problem comes in believe it is inspired.
@sunshinecup (7871)
•
16 Jul 07
My father was catholic, I so know what you just pointed out. I always wondered how this sect could continue so strong as it has with all the contradictions it practices. Then it hit me, one it's spoon fed generation upon generation. The first golden rule is never to question the church cause that is like questioning God. Second, there is so much power and money wrapped in it, it's not funny.
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
17 Jul 07
I am amazed I had not come across this before! Well done.
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@maildumpster (3815)
• United States
17 Jul 07
Thanks Urban. Too bad I am accused of not knowing what I am talking about. I lived and breathe it for years but I don't have a clue. My family still lives and breathes it but I don't have a clue. Oh well may God remove the scales from their eyes.
@foxyfire33 (10005)
• United States
16 Jul 07
I honestly had no idea! I had heard the were a lot of differences between Protestant and Catholic churches but what those difference were was never really discussed. My time in church was brief as it didn't take long to figure out that the particular Methodist church I was going to was just as repressive as the others only they were more sneaky about it. I don't have a problem with religion in general, I just don't care for the idea that members need to be kept ignorant.
2 people like this
@estherlou (5015)
• United States
17 Jul 07
I am a Catholic, but am a convert since 1990. When I read your post I was thinking that the part about graven images is understood to be a part of the 1st commandment because it goes with not having strange gods. So, I went to the Catechism of the church I have on cd and this is what it said...
The First Commandment is generally given in abbreviated form, "I am the Lord your God. You shall not have strange gods before me." But the full message that Moses received from the Lord on Sinai is very detailed.
I am Yahweh your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no gods except me.
You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven or on earth or in the waters under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, Yahweh your God, am a jealous God and I punish the father's fault in the sons, the grandsons, and the great-grandsons of those who hate me; but I show kindness to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments (Ex. 20:1-6).
@whiteheather39 (24403)
• United States
17 Jul 07
As I am a Protestant I only know of the commandments from the bible but I do know when I was growing up the difference between my religion and the Roman Catholic religion was that the Roman Catholics were idol worshippers and that the RC church believes in the confession of ones sins to man and not directly to God and that we did not need an intermediary to forgive us or decide our penance.
Both my husband were Roman Catholics and that did not go over very well with my family.
@mari61960 (4893)
• United States
17 Jul 07
I was baptized and raised catholic. I think its a big racket. It's all about the money and they make up their own rules and change things to suit their desires. With all that's gone on I have ZERO RESPECT for the Catholic Church.
@LittleMel (8742)
• Canada
17 Jul 07
I was baptized Roman Catholic too. My brother married a Pentecostal and he told us the wrongs he found in Catholic dogmas, one of them was what you just wrote above. I don't bother agreeing or disagreeing with him. He is my brother and blood is thicker than water. My husband was baptized too but not Catholic and he never pays too much attention to religion either.
@sunshinelady (7609)
• United States
17 Jul 07
I also was raised in the Catholic Church and the priest would get upset if you tried to open the Bible. I went to a revelation meeting almost thirty years ago and it astounded me one in particular thing that was shown. That the Catholic Church changed the day of worship to Sunday. It was always on Saturday until they changed it. I know a lot of people don't think it matters what day you worship but I think it does. It is out of respect for Jesus and it says to worship the Sabbath day. There were other things that the Catholic Church teaches that was brought out in these meetings and the thing the impressed me the most was the preacher always ended the meeting by saying not to take his word but go home and look it up in the bible. They didn't just mention about the Catholic Church they also showed other things but since I was a Catholic at the time it really opened my eyes up big time.
@filmbuff (2909)
• United States
17 Jul 07
A *very* intertesting dicussion maildumpster. I was not aware that the catholic version of the ten commandments were different from those found in judaism or other christian religions. Being non-catholic I really don't have a lot to add to this conversation, except for a little history.
During the dark ages (900 - 1500 A.C.E.(and probably before) people in general were very illitirate. They often could not read nor write their own language, let alone latin which is what I believe the Catholic churches documents were written in, and services were held in.
The history books that I've read make it plain that services in latin, and the general idea of keeping the followers in the dark was one of the major reasons for the Reformation led my Martin Luther, among other things.
I have (as you know) struggled with the concept idols of the saints and the virgin mary found in catholic churches and how people pray to them, taking into account that it is verboten by the ten commandments. It makes a little more sense to know that they changed the ten commandments to allow that, which (sorry catholics) I find deplorable.
@Flint275 (60)
• United States
17 Jul 07
this is the reason why we as christians must question the church and find out for ourselves what the bible really says. the bible has many different translations so you must find the one that best suits you. religion is very difficult to translate. this is the reason we have a brain.
