The Over-Rated Opposing Thumb
By Maggiepie
@Maggiepie (7816)
United States
May 12, 2010 11:44pm CST
You've heard, as have we all, that the opposing thumb is why humans evolved past our animal cousins. I got curious about this after seeing people who'd lost their thumbs--& some even whole hands!--who still managed to do everything whole-bodied people could do, including paint incredible things, play music, etc..
Also, I'm a big fan of science fiction, & the possibility of life on other worlds is a stock premise of the genre (& Steven Hawkings has finally admitted he's able to conceive of such). The likelihood of sentient life developing elsewhere isn't nearly as hard to swallow as the notion that it would be basically like us, bipedal, opposing thumbs, & all. Coming from a system we literally can't begin to imagine, there is every reason instead to assume it might take totally different forms from ours, having evolved differently from different creatures than primates.
THEREFORE, what of a race of beings whose dexterity lay not in fingers at all, but, say, cilia, or tentacles, or some appendage(s) at which we could only guess?
I decided to experiment a bit, & see how many things I could do sans thumbs, to see what would happen.
I lifted coffee cups, wrote, set my alarm clock, carried items without handles, drew pictures, etc., etc., etc.
It was a bit awkward at first, but I soon got the hang of it. So, what do you say to that? Do you still think our thumbs are so important to our rise? Could it be some other trait? If so, what? Why do you think scientists were such fans of the thumb, when it's clearly demonstrable the thumb isn't crucial to doing mundane tasks?
I just can no longer buy the premise that our thumbs are so central to our extreme development.
Maggiepie
THE COMPUTER ATE MY HOMEWORK!!!
3 people like this
8 responses
@GardenGerty (158131)
• United States
13 May 10
I would say our brains, but then I look at politics and the economy,and I would have to say we are deteriorating. As I read your post, I could imagine doing many of the things you listed, without the thumbs. How about adaptability as being responsible for our rise?
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
13 May 10
Well, I must say there's plenty of evidence that Washington, at least, has lost its mind!
But yes, I think our brains have to be the biggest difference. And I wonder if they aren't the very thing that makes us adaptable, to begin with?
I also think we must include what science can't, by its nature: the soul. When we were first able to look at the stars & dream dreams, what did that have to do with the mechanics of the brain? No, I know there's something else at work, there, though science would only look in vain, if it even bothered. It can't be measured or quantified in any way, so science simply isn't equipped to handle it, any more than a chef's wonderful meal can be quantified except by identifying its components. No test can explain why it delights the heart!
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: " ... democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
13 May 10
Yeah, I hear that's what's hindered the dolphins from building cities & making digital watches...
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: "...democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: "...democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
@jb78000 (15139)
•
13 May 10
"But yes, I think our brains have to be the biggest difference. And I wonder if they aren't the very thing that makes us adaptable, to begin with?"
well yes, i am wondering who the scientists you refer to saying otherwise are? opposable thumbs simply made tool making easier, although we would have succeeded just with fingers. however with say fins we wouldn't have made many.
1 person likes this
@gabs8513 (48686)
• United Kingdom
14 May 10
Hi Maggie
My Mum was born with only one Arm, she used to knit and I mean she done awesome knitting, she used to knit for other People and earned herself some Money that way
She does everything we do and yes it is amazing, even though to me it is normal s I have seen her like that all my Life
I know that if we keep trying we can do things, when I was 9 I broke my right Colorbone (fell down the slide, because well I did not as I was told and sat like you are suppose to, I stood) anyway I had to learn to write and do things with my Left Hand and I did manage after a few Days, it is very amazing when we are forced to do things that we actually can
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
14 May 10
Cheeze Whiz, Gabs, I've got two arms, & I still can't knit! "Handicaps" are only such if one allows them to be. Your mom is proof of that!
Maggiepie
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." ~ -- Alexis de Tocqueville
"Handicaps" are only such if one allows them to be. Your mom is proof of that!
Maggiepie
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." ~ -- Alexis de Tocqueville1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
14 May 10
Cheeze Whiz, Gabs, I've got two arms, & I still can't knit! "Handicaps" are only such if one allows them to be. Your mom is proof of that!
Maggiepie
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." ~ -- Alexis de Tocqueville
"Handicaps" are only such if one allows them to be. Your mom is proof of that!
Maggiepie
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." ~ -- Alexis de Tocqueville1 person likes this
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
13 May 10
Well, no, it wasn't just thumbs. Our ability to think in the abstract helped along with our ability to make long range plans. Our curiosity about the world around us and our ability to experiment also gave us an advantage. It sounds like you did a fun experiment though.
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
13 May 10
I agree, but I can't count the number of times I've seen & heard the thumb praised as our savior from remaining primitive! Sure, it makes things a tad easier, but I know for certain we didn't need it to evolve!
By the way, I think cats are starting to catch on. I've seen numerous cats use their paws & claws like fingers, to bring an object up to its eyes to examine it, to cup water & then lip it into their mouths, to catch on things to push & pull them from here to there...do you think I can look forward to someday playing a chess game with a cat? 
And yes, it was fun! 
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: " ... democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
And yes, it was fun!
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: " ... democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."@spalladino (17891)
• United States
15 May 10
Sure, my mean cat, Misty, uses her *thumb* to grab things all the time and don't forget that monkeys, apes and orangatangs all have thumbs, too. But, what they don't have are the cognitive abilities that humans have, which is why they're still hanging out in trees, fat and happy. We see a tree...we want to build a house in it and figure out how to add a satellite dish. 
@angelajoy (1825)
• Philippines
14 May 10
You missed a very important point in why scientists theorize the development of the thumb as crucial to our evolution. According to the theory, having a thumb enabled our ancestors to manipulate things, and being able to manipulate things helped them to think, and this made them smarter. Of course, if you would observe the function of your thumb right now it wouldn't seem to be that useful because after all, you have already evolved into a smart being. Even if you cut off your thumb your brain would remain the same, so you could think of other ways to go around doing stuff without your thumb. But although I think this is a logical theory, that doesn't mean that the evolution into a smart being would be the same for the whole universe. There could be a lot of possibilities for different creatures.
1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
14 May 10
Excellent point--one which the promoters of the "necessary thumb" bunch never made. Thank you for thinking!
Still, I do realize, just as you do, that other races might do things vastly differently, coming up with other organic tools to manipulate.
Now the question is, I guess, which came first, the human thumb, or the smarts to use it?
Maggiepie
"Turn off your TVs. Don't watch your MSNBC, your Fox, your ABC." ~ B. Obama
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" ~ The Wizard of Oz
Maggiepie
"Turn off your TVs. Don't watch your MSNBC, your Fox, your ABC." ~ B. Obama
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" ~ The Wizard of Oz1 person likes this
@angelajoy (1825)
• Philippines
14 May 10
If those promoters didn't say anything about what I just pointed out, then they didn't do their research properly. Maybe our ancestors first used their thumb instinctively? I don't really know. By the way, I don't think you deserve your current star rating. I was really surprised because I've been seeing you in lots of discussions, and I don't see any reason to rate you this low. I hope you'll get higher ratings from now on.
@jb78000 (15139)
•
14 May 10
i am very unsure who the 'necessary bunch' are. i doubt many scientists would try to claim that opposable thumbs are the reason humans became so successful. reasonable intelligent animals can use tentacles, beaks, jaws, hands without thumbs, etc to make tools and use them. the only reason that they can do this is because they are able to think. in their case, like ours, the real reason is intelligence.
@jb78000 (15139)
•
13 May 10
as i said above i am curious what you have been reading on this topic. opposable thumbs have been very useful but not central to our development. and interesting you mention tentacles - octopi are known to use tools. birds like crows use their beaks to manipulate twigs etc. thumbs are not essential.
anyway what sci fi do you read? the good stuff has all kinds of interesting sentient alien beings. in the comic genre, douglas adams had a very intelligent shade of blue as one.
in the comic genre, douglas adams had a very intelligent shade of blue as one.1 person likes this
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
13 May 10
Oh, nothing specific I can recall, just various mentions in texts, articles, & random references by scientists over the years. I just wanted to see if thumbs were really all that necessary. My own experiment forced me to conclude in the negative.
Yes, several animals--including primates & even insects, have been recording tools. I saw a video once of a chimp using a stick to knock down bananas, & another film I saw showed ants utilizing leaves & twigs to build bridges across water. I've seen even cats use thin objects to extend their reach in tight spots, & I've even known one cat who used her body, not only to open round doorknobs, but to unscrew jar lids to get to things she wanted!
An intelligent color, eh? Intriguing! What story was that? I'd love to read it!
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: "...democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
14 May 10
No, it's not possible. If it were only one reference, I might agree, but there have been numerous mentions through the years, always stressing that the peculiarity of our thumbs was at the root of our ability to evolve, & that without this thumb, even our superior brains would never have allowed us to evolve as we have! Please stop trying to imply I didn't understand what I read!
I read what I have said I read (& heard)! Just because you didn't doesn't mean it didn't happen!
Maggiepie
@jb78000 (15139)
•
14 May 10
it's possible that you saw something that said that they were the most important physical adaptation, but the main reason is of course the brain.
one of the 5 hitchhiker's books - i can't remember which one, been years since i read them. think it makes an appearance in another too.
1 person likes this
@quita88 (3715)
• United States
14 May 10
First off I am sooo sorry the computer ate your homework LOL
But as to the need for thumbs.............I haven't tried it but I've seen veterans without limbs accomplish tasks even I can't perform well. They on the other hand have no choice but to do things without arms and legs and hands, etc.
The human body and mind are amazing things. Our brains can send messages to all parts of our bodies and therefore the brain is the main organ to determine what we do and don't do.
We just have to have the want to.... the will power and we can accomplish amazing tasks.
Later, quita
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
14 May 10
Well, Alice & I straightened out the comp problem. (Whew!)
But it's true, the brain is the big deal, to me. If we didn't have that, we'd still be swinging from trees!
Have you ever seen artwork painted by people who use their mouths or feet? "Mouth artists" have an organization that prints their work & raises money for them. I get a lovely calendar from them every year, & sometimes greeting cartds. Some of the work is truly amazing! All from folks with no arms.
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: " ... democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
13 May 10
Well don't touch the rim, Lakota--just wrap all your fingers around the handle!
But nobody's taking your thumb, anyhow, hun! Whatever would we do with it??
Just relax!
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: "...democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
But nobody's taking your thumb, anyhow, hun! Whatever would we do with it??
Just relax!
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: "...democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
@Maggiepie (7816)
• United States
13 May 10
Yeah, I keep promising myself that one of these days I'm going to compile a murmur/mumble/grunt dictionary...just as soon as I can figure out how to standardize the spelling.
I know you know of what I'm speaking. The simple, "Mm-hmm," meaning "Yes," or "Mn-nnmm!" for "Absolutely not!" are prime examples. How does one spell that curious "MmMMmmm!" sound we all make that clearly means, "How should I know?" Or the doctor's infamous "Hmmmm...(pause)" which makes everyone think, "UH-ohhh... 
"
There are gobs of those, all of which we use without thinking, & which all Americans, at least, clearly understand. I'm sure if you try, you can come up with some of your own.
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: "...democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
"
There are gobs of those, all of which we use without thinking, & which all Americans, at least, clearly understand. I'm sure if you try, you can come up with some of your own.
Maggiepie
Thomas Jefferson: "...democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."