Should they try to translate the bible further?

@JenInTN (27514)
United States
July 23, 2011 11:35pm CST
Ok...so everyone knows that the King James version of the bible is not the first translation and it has not been the last...but recently on the news there has been another version introduced. "The American Standard" is apparently a translation created to help people understand more clearly in this day and time. Now there are some people that think it's a great idea but there are some that feel it takes away from the original message. I have to say that I think there has been a lot taken away throughout the years..but should it continue? Maybe these people that want to change it have the divine intervention" that the others have claimed to have in the past...maybe they don't. Do you think that a book that people follow as a religious reference should ever be tweaked for understanding or should it always remain the same?
6 people like this
26 responses
@1hopefulman (45123)
• Canada
24 Jul 11
We have to remember that since the Bible was written in languages (Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek) that most of us do not understand, we have a need for translations. The translations are only as good as the translators. I was just looking in my personal collection of Bibles and I have The American Standard Version (1901) and The New American Standard Bible (1960). I have no problem with further unbiased translations, as with time and research we have a clearer understanding of the original languages, therefore we need the most accurate translations. A most glaring mistake of many new translations is the leaving out of God's personal name YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah. Psalm 83:18 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 18 That they may know that You alone, whose name is the LORD, Are the Most High over all the earth. Notice the older translations: Psalm 83:18 American Standard Version (ASV) 18 That they may know that thou alone, whose name is Jehovah, Art the Most High over all the earth. Psalm 83:18 King James Version (KJV) 18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (45123)
• Canada
25 Jul 11
Just in the Old Testament the personal name of god appears almost 7000 times. Any translation that changes that must be taken with a grain of salt. How would we feel if we had a book written about us and we put our name in the book thousands of times and then the translators took the liberty to remove our name from the translations? Notice this prophecy: Malachi 3:16 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 16Then have those fearing Jehovah spoken one to another, And Jehovah doth attend and hear, And written is a book of memorial before Him Of those fearing Jehovah, And of those esteeming His name. What do you think of this verse? Jeremiah 23:25-27 American Standard Version (ASV) 25 I have heard what the prophets have said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 26 How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies, even the prophets of the deceit of their own heart? 27 that think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers forgat my name for Baal.
1 person likes this
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
25 Jul 11
Yes..Yaweh should not be changed for sure. It was required of us to know that in our class and I am thinking it is pretty important. I think there is even a verse in the New Testement that gives permission to to change certain things as one sees fit...of course they would need to be doing under divine influence...that's a hard one to measure though. Thanks for responding!
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
24 Jul 11
Hi JenInTN Not from a religious view, but from a normal view, I think these texts should get updated (call it revised or anything) as per the times. The reason, I see, is simple - These texts are for the good of a human life and preach universal love, brotherhood and many more things in relation to how a person should lead his/her life. As times change, the basic needs of a person, and the meaning of life too changes. These texts should be so changed that they allow the simple living and following of things to make life what it should be. Though not from Bible, but an example - some religions dont allow women to work. They might have been right when these texts were written but in today's world, both husband and wife should be allowed to work so that in case anything goes wrong with one, the other can support the family. On personal note, I do not follow any religion but believe in doing my thing right - with a faith and trust that I am not harming anyone and doing the right thing. So I am not the right guy to answer the question but am providing my personal views.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
24 Jul 11
Hi thesids!! It's great to see you! How are things going for you? I think you are one of the perfect people to answer this. I might not even be a good one to start such a discussion about it, but I do take great interest in the way people view things. What you said reminds me of what my professor said when he took the life we had now and compared it to the life of the people back then. The situations and the times might have required such laws, but compared to now..there is alot that has changed. I think there is even a passage in the bible I read that gives permission to change it when one saw fit. I think it was supposed to be by devine intervention but I am no scholar on the subject by any means..lol. I believe in doing the right thing too. Thanks for responding.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
25 Jul 11
You are so right...there are alot of things common to religious teachings. I sure wish everyone could see it that way. I try to get it in whenever I can...just hoping to raise a little awareness about it. I can't wait for you to get settled in and tell us all about your new place. Take care.
@thesids (22180)
• Bhubaneswar, India
24 Jul 11
I think you are one of the perfect people to answer this Wow, I never thought it this way For me, I did read some hindu religios texts - The Gita, Some Preachings from Swami Vivekanada and some more and found they all are quite about the way of living a pious life... not that materialistic. But over the time another set of preachings from Shirdi Sai Baba changed my thoughts - Lord Never says to run away from responsibilities. And as you and me are born as humans, we do have some responsibilities. Finding the right ones and going about them the right way - I think this is what all religions preach. For me, right now we are busy packing up as we shift to our new place on 31st. Once I get the Internet connection there, I would be regular here and not miss out any of the great discussions from great friends and lotters
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
26 Jul 11
its work for a lot o people alot of year just the way the King James version is wrote I would say leave it alone .
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
28 Jul 11
your most welcome
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
28 Jul 11
Hi Lakota! It has kept a huge amount of respect throughout the years. There are alot of people that would like it to be left alone. Thanks for the input.
• United States
24 Jul 11
I thank G-d I am not Christian Because of things like this! I thought the Message was the important thing! Didn't Martin Luther open things up by making sure The Bible was not just in Latin? Why not make it easier to understand? Are they afraid of the essence of the message and that is why they want to keep it vague?Sorry, just thinking out loud. Since no two Christian groups are exactly the same why can't a church use a more plain version of the Bible? If there are one who disapprove, they can find a church that uses King James' version.
• United States
25 Jul 11
Thank you for reading a response from a non Christian.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
25 Jul 11
I think it is supposed to be the message. The KJV was a translation of a translation of a translation too. There were even entire books taken out to make it. I think that fear is a good point. Thanks for the response!
1 person likes this
@margeryann (1845)
• United States
25 Jul 11
What can be scary about the thought of that is they might be changing it to what they think the versus mean and it might not mean that. When I was a kid I went to church all the time and when I was a teenager I stopped going because I would read the bible and couldn't figure out what the verse actually meant. I would hear people arguing all the time on what they thought a verse meant and it made me wonder who is right on what it means when everyone thought what they thought was right and the other people were wrong. It was very confusing for me to where I was questioning my faith because of it. When I got older I started getting my faith back and started believing again and just don't worry about what the word mean and just believe in trying to be the best person I can be and know that god is watching and being the best person I can be lets me know that it is the best I can be.Pray to god as often as I can and not just pray to him to ask for something. I pray to tell him how thankful I am or just to say I love him. I try my best to be as perfect as I can but no one is perfect and I try not to judge anyone because noone is perfect and everyone is different. This is a very good idea of a discussion. I hope you have a wonderful week.
@1hopefulman (45123)
• Canada
26 Jul 11
Once we get to know God and He knows us, we don't have to worry, as He will make sure that we have the right understanding of things. He will guide us to the truth because we love the truth and He will give us all the help we need. Read John chapter 4 and see how interested Jesus was in helping a Samaritan woman learn the truth. Now notice this statement in John 4:23-24 Common English Bible (CEB) 23 But the time is coming—and is here!—when true worshippers will worship in spirit and truth. The Father looks for those who worship him this way. 24 God is spirit, and it is necessary to worship God in spirit and truth.” No one will be neglected!
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
28 Jul 11
It can be hard margeryann...I know..believe me. There are a lot of things that still confuse me sometimes. Thanks for responding!
@RitterSport (2451)
• Lippstadt, Germany
26 Jul 11
hi dear Jen, here its the same with all the new translations of the Bible coming up. I personally find them a very good idea. First of all these new translations help people who have never read the Bible understand the basics. When they then want to go fromo there, other translations are available which are closer to the original text. I have several translations even a very new one of the New Testament made by young people in a way they can understand what the Bible says. That cooked up a storm with Evangelical Christians for sure but I think its great that these translations are available. I also think it does not mean tweaking the Bible if you put it into modern English, German, French, or whatever.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
28 Jul 11
I think that they are good for the main ideas. I think the biggest argument that I saw was not the transformation to different languages...it was word change. Ex...Genesis..there was a change in the word from spirit to wind...they felt like that took from the original meaning. Spirit swept across....wind swept across. Thanks for the response...how have you been?
• Lippstadt, Germany
30 Jul 11
yes Jen many feel that a different wording takes away the original meaning, I know..... Thanks for asking about me, its back to work here and after the first two days I can say I manage quite well.
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
1 Aug 11
Personally the problem could be now a days too many people wanting to take out various parts of the Bible and rewrite it say something of their own, or to appease them. We could also have people who would then say certain things are not needed anymore, etc. to where it could be quite far off. Personally I think it is Best to leave things alone as God intended unless you are researching side by side to see what differences there might be as in studying. I do agree sometimes that the King James version is harder to read than some of the other ones out there, but it is the Original version so that is the one I have chose to lean on.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
5 Aug 11
I thought it was the original version too until my class. Where I am from that one is THE one but I am thinking they don't realize how translated that on is too. I think there is always the chance that things might be taken out...one example was in Genesis where they wanted to change the word spirit to wind. The guy on the news felt that was really taking away from the message. Thanks for responding.
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
24 Jul 11
Hi, Jen - interesting question! The more we know about the original languages that the Bible was written in, the better the translations can be if the translators do their best to convey what the original scripture is saying. I went to watchtower.org and found an accurate translation there and also a search box. I did a search with "bible translations" and got some interesting articles about this subject. Why not make a search there right away? You will find a lot of information.. Well, if the research shows that the translation is not accurate and follows the original, it would of course be important to adjust the text. That is what has happened in some cases, and that is why some of the modern translations are using different words and expressions. Also the languages change and as you will find out on the wt site, the New World Tranlation is written in modern English. It also exists in many other languages.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
25 Jul 11
Sounds like a great site for research and data. Thanks!
1 person likes this
@buenavida (9985)
• Sweden
25 Jul 11
Absolutely! I´ve studied the Bible with help of the Watchtower literature for more than 50 years and learned many things that I would not have learned anywhere else. It is a great help to have this site online, and I also download literature and the Bible on jw.org - so that I can listen while doing other things or for saving my eyes. The good readers help to concentrate on the Bible text and understand it better. I even subscribe for the magazines to my Gmail and just go to "Reader" (a great feature in Gmail) when I want to listen. I love to read about wonders in the nature, and Awake! has often that kind of articles.
@idowrite72 (2213)
• United States
24 Jul 11
I actually see this both ways, but do agree about some of the things being changed since some who do the translations seem to take liberties with the wording. I have heard over the years, "it's how you interpret the words", but most is as plain as plain can be. When I was a teen there was a "version" out called "God Is For Real, Man" and remember having a copy and thinking that it was written in "modern" English and much easier to understand. I haven't noticed if that version is still around and I have long since gotten rid of the one which I had. But at the time, I do think that many more read the Bible, even if the wording may not have been the original. I do think that if it is "translated" too many times, there will be vital things that are changed or twisted somehow.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
24 Jul 11
I read that when there were no printers that people called scribes would copy and copy and copy until they had the required amount of text to send forward. Then another scribe would get it and do the same. There are some inconsistancies already because of the handeling I guess. I do see both sides too. People won't read things that that is hard to understand. I think that most any religious books that people have as a guide can be a little dangerous if they start changing too much. It makes me wonder who has the right I guess to change it. Thanks for the response and great points!
• United States
30 Jul 11
Well,I also think that if they attempt to change The Bible, how much will be they successful in changing or translating it?I fear about the originality of the book.Even they translate it could it remain the same?
@celticeagle (159474)
• Boise, Idaho
24 Jul 11
Gheez, you should see me. Ringing my hands and wondering how I should say this. I think you know by now but I am agnostic. I question religious things from the Bible to catholic fancy pants. How much are they going to translate it before it is totally a 'translation'? Not the true word but what a bunch of guys that think they know more than anyone else take to be true. I can give you a whole snoot full of what I think is the truth of the matter but I don't want the Mylot server to quake and burn. Ah, yes. I will say it one more time. Keep translating until it has no real facsimile to what it started out to be.
@celticeagle (159474)
• Boise, Idaho
24 Jul 11
Ya, how much can you really believe in this book after every faction known has translated it?
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
24 Jul 11
I think there have probably been worse things said that the server stood up too. We might have to go a couple of days without notifications but it is still hanging in there. It is pretty thickly translated as it is now. In a way I think that any religious book that leads a group should be left alone but then I think about the ways communication has changed. I think that is a very sensible concern though..how much is too much? Thanks for the response!
2 people like this
@Lore2009 (7378)
• United States
20 Aug 11
I have yet to finish reading the bible, so I can't really answer this question. But it reminded me of the time in my art history class when my professor told us that they thought Moses had horns on his head because of a mis-translation. Even from reading literature, I wonder often how the original language version differs and changes the feel to the stories.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
24 Aug 11
That's the thing I think...it really has been translated and changed so much over time. That is one of the reasons there are so many contradictions. There are just some words in one language that there are no translations for in another. They get as close as they can..but it isn't the same. I learned that when I learned Spanish. Thanks for the response!
@allknowing (130116)
• India
26 Aug 11
" a book that people follow as a religious reference " Which people are you talking about Jen? Is it ever possible to read the bible which I am told contains 181,253 words - the New Testament that is. Whether it is translated or kept as it is makes no difference to the common man as most Christians go by what they were taught by their parents and/or priests. I have not read the bible.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
31 Aug 11
In that particular statement..I was referring to any book that people follow for religious reference..not just the bible. You make a good point..most people do stay within their parent's belief system. Thanks for the response!
@Rick1950 (1575)
• Lima, Peru
30 Jul 11
The Bible has been written in ancient languages. Genesis was written in Hebrew, and the Gospels in Aramaic and ancient Greek. I heard about people who are working at a new Bible interpretation inside the Catholic Church. I don't know how far are they with their work. To understand the Bible is not simple. Jesus has talked in parables and their apostles could not understand him, then he explained his parables. For many Saints was not easy to understand word of God and they needed to pray. Anyway, before reading the Bible it is necesary to be prepared. Maybe is more important to have an intuitive grasp than replacing old terms by modern ones.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
30 Jul 11
Maybe your right. There are a lot of things in there that could be taken a hundred different ways. The parables were supposed to be a way for people that didn't understand to understand..lol. Thanks for the response!
@averygirl72 (37753)
• Philippines
24 Jul 11
I am also interested in Bible translation. I have read from an internet site that King James Version is the only correct translation? It says the NIV had deleted many important words so I bought a King James and compared in to NIV and I found the difference. Changing the wordings but keeping the same idea is not bad for me but deleting some words? The first time I read KJV I dont understand it but when I use TEV, the bible seems easy to understand. Wish I could find the most reliable version of the Bible..
@1hopefulman (45123)
• Canada
25 Jul 11
Hi averygirl72! My heart always rejoices when I see someone taking an interest in the Bible. I would recommend having about five different translations and read a different one every year. I personally have over 20 different translations, for the sake of comparison. From time to time compare a verse just to see how it is rendered in the different translations. Even with a few errors and changes one can figure out what is pleasing to God and what is not. One can summarize the whole Bible by these two statements. Matthew 22:37-39 King James Version (KJV) 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. If we read the Bible with sincerity and honesty, God will help us to discover the truth. John 4:23-24 King James Version (KJV) 23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The encouragement I give to everyone is: Read the Bible daily!
1 person likes this
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
24 Jul 11
There are things sometimes left out when translating. Actually there were things left out of the KJV version that I never realized before I took this Hebrew Christian Tradition class. There is one book where the entire verse is left out. It goes from verse 37 to 39. I was also amazed that there were books taken from the bible. They are still in the Catholic bible..which is where the KJV was made from. There is a lot of information to consider where the translation is concerned. It could make it easier to understand...but I'm not sure we have words for some of the things described. Thanks for responding!
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
27 Jul 11
I think the aim is to make it relevant to new generations of readers. If people can relate more to the stories, then it may be that the teachings of the stories are easier to follow. I agree that it has lost much through the ages and so, I don't put much stock in it but I appreciate that many read, learn from and take comfort in the Bible. I believe the messages have been twisted, bent, skewed and some totally changed, so the real message is lost somewhere in the translation or just obliterated altogether.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
28 Jul 11
I am not a big fan of text either. I can see the "moral of the story" and then take from that...but as far as stock...yes..I have trouble with that too. Thanks for responding!
@dark_joev (3034)
• United States
26 Jul 11
No I don't think they should of translated it for the English language any farther than the KJV as well I think this is the best representation of the Bible and it also sounds cool when you read it. If they where going to do a translation I would like to see the Bible done in Binary form that would be the only translation I would pick up.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
28 Jul 11
That is a good point. I guess the translation used is dependent upon the person and what they want to see from it. Binary is an interesting thought..lol.
@SomeCowgirl (32191)
• United States
24 Jul 11
Maybe it's the American Standard that I am thinking of, but I believe it's something called the New International Version? I do not like that version of the bible, it's too literal, and I feel it looses some translation. I like my KJV and will continue to read it. I read it a few times if I don't understand, or ask people older then who,or a preacher if I do not understand it even then. I feel like newer versions bring false prophecies, maybe that's a silly way to think about it, but I guess that's just how I feel.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
24 Jul 11
Nothing wrong with how you feel. You are in an area where that version is very popular too. We still have a bit of the puritan lifestyle in our areas that other areas do not. I was taking my class on Hebrew and Christian Tradition and found out that KJV wasn't the first bible to be introduced either. The guy that broke away from the catholic church to start the other denominations actually took books out after he left...that is what we read now. I was surprised and wondered what authority he had to do that. I would like to at least see what the other books have to say..lol...I have them in the bible my class required me to have. Didn't read them but I have them. I think that translations can leave things out. I know that there was a whole chapter left out of Revelations in the KJV too. I haven't seen that one either but it would be interesting to see what it said. Thanks for the response!
@Chevee (5905)
• United States
24 Jul 11
The Word of God says, His Word will never change, God is and His word is the same yesterday as well as today. No matter what they do to it The Word will remain the same. I have bibles with different translation ( The New Century Version, Living Bible version and of course the King James version). No matter which of the new version I use I always use my King James version to back them up.. I also have the Life Application Study Bibe, it is in the King James version with commentary foot notes.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
25 Jul 11
Hi Chevee! I used to put alot of emphasis on the KJV too until I found out it is not the first translation. I also found out that a man decided to leave the Catholic church...the first of the new Christian denominations and took books out of the Catholic bible at his own discretion. That kind of bugs me. They made the KJV from his choice of books. There are different arguments as to why he did it...but all that time I thought the KJV was THE version. I also found out there was a whole ending paragrah to Revelations left out..that bugs me too. They were hurried for the deadline on the printing press and left it out. I think it's good to have a variety of text...it makes it easier to research. Thanks for the response!
@ebuscat (5935)
• Philippines
24 Jul 11
For me no it is never remain the same because the true knowledge of Jehovah God if you have holy spirit in him the bible change into new world translation because we are in the modern world.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
25 Jul 11
Yes..we are in the modern world and that can make a huge difference where some things are concerned. Thanks for the response!
@bounce58 (17387)
• Canada
28 Jul 11
I am also for tweaking the translation so that it would remain relevant. I'd rather have everyday people relating to it, than having a religious reference that would be lost to scholars that only study past literature. My only problem with translation is, who would be doing it? As I'm sure personal agendas could be inserted into it.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
28 Jul 11
I worry about stuff like that too bounce. I think there is a long line of personal agendas to consider. Social order can be very important when creating a society. Makes me wonder sometimes. Thanks for the input!