Now here's a thing

Australia
October 20, 2012 1:05am CST
From a report on this morning's Radio National program on Australia's ABC. I'm not sure of the provenance of these figures, but if correct they are very strange, if Republican supporters are to be believed. 1978-2005 Under Democratic Presidents, Federal Spending went up by 9.9%. Federal Debt by 4.2%, GDP by 12.6%. Under Republican Presidents Federal Spending was up 12.1%, Federal Debt by 36.4% , GDP by 10.7% 1981, shortly after taking office, Reagan complained of "runaway deficits" that were then approaching US$80 billion, or about 2.5% GDP. 1983 Reaganomics had succeeded in enlarging the deficit to more than US$200 billion, or 6% GDP. 1993 Bush 1 had deficit down to US$150 billion, still almost double what it had been under Carter. National Debt up from US$995 billion, when Reagan took office, to $4 trillion. Reaganomics, as applied by 3 Republican Administrations, had it grow as a % GDP from 26% to 42%. 1993 Clinton managed hold/wind back both of them in returning the budget to a surplus of some US$280 billion and reducing the National Debt to 35% GDP. 2001 Bushednomics soon remedied that as The Faux Texan and late unlamented encumbrance in the White House, even managed to outdo "The Gipper" and his own Dad. Setting yet another unenviable record. The deficit was to be $482 billion in the 2009 budget moving from black to red ink in the order of US$750 billion from the end of Clinton's term. Does anything more need saying? Lash
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7 responses
@sierras236 (2739)
• United States
20 Oct 12
Funny but you forgot something in your analysis. The Congressional part of our trilogy of Government. Clinton actually had a Republican Congress to work with. Bush his last two years had a Democratic Congress. Obama his first two years had a Super Majority Democratic Congress and STILL doesn't have a Federal Budget. He hasn't had one since he took office. Make sure you look at everything, not just the President when looking at spending. Congress is responsible for a large share.
2 people like this
• United States
21 Oct 12
Nope. I am pointing out that particular analysis completely ignored the Legislative Branch of Government. You should know, the one that pumps out the bills that always cost the taxpayers money. You mentioned President Clinton. What you didn't mention was that he had a Republican Congress. The analysis is lacking in that point. Pointing out that you are missing critical information is showing that you are taking a partial skeleton as bait instead of actual meat. But go ahead, continue to ignore that the analysis is flawed.
1 person likes this
• Australia
21 Oct 12
I'm confused. The period of that analysis was up to 2005. I didn't think Obama was elected till after that, so how the f*ck does he get to be part of this discussion? Oh that's right, you're just a pilot fish, my mistake. No point in me asking that question. Lash
• Australia
21 Oct 12
In your own words that has happened to presidents of both kinds, hostile Congresses. That factor, over 30 years, flattens out. Lash
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
20 Oct 12
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/ When a nation borrows .40 cents of every dollar spent, when the Federal Reserve prints money and the currency is further devalued, when those who receive money and benefits from the government are MORE than those who pay into the government in taxes, and when the executive of said govenment spends upwards toward a million dollars on his family's travels and then tells the tax payers (those 53% who pay taxes)that 'everyone must do their fair share', when economic growth is dropping to frightening levels and yet the president suggests that we are in recovery, you will have those who say Obama is destroying, not fixing the economy. It matters little to me how others did at this tipping point. Obama said he'd fix it, and he's pushed us further down the road to ruin and collapse. HE called it hope and change. He hasn't delivered. THAT is what matters in this election.
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@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
23 Oct 12
With all due respect your article is misleading. Bush raised the debt by 5 trillion dollars from 5 trillion to 10,699 trillion in 8 years. At the same time the GDP increased from 9,817 billion to 14,077 billion. It was a time of terrific American business expansion. And lots of jobs so lots of revenue. Let's look at what Obama has done, he raised the deficit in 3 1/2 years by 5 trillion dollars from 10,699 trillion to 15,850 trillion. Yet the GDP barely moved from 14,441 billion to 15,595 billion. In 3 1/2 years Obama increased the national debt by the same amount as Bush did in 8 years while the GDP increased by a fraction. - Besides, Reagan had two terms as opposed to Carter's. And President Clinton was able to work with a republican congress..
1 person likes this
• Australia
24 Oct 12
As I said, "if correct these figures are strange..." However, I would point out that Obama, who incidentally was never mentioned in my opening post since his term falls outside the time parameters of the article I was citing, has had to deal with the fallout of the Prime Mortgage thingie and the GFC, so perhaps the comparison you draw is a little risky? Lash
• United States
20 Oct 12
I was only a child during the Carter and Reagan years, but a young adult during the elder Bush's (or Senior Bush as I like to call him) term. I KNEW we were in for some serious problems back in 2004 (I believe), Bush Junior (W) pledged $500 million to the Iraq war, then $500 million to the tsunami relief, and as a follow up, ANOTHER $500 million to Katrina relief. And if I recall, there were budgetary issues back then.... Where in the heck where we going to get this money? I've never been thrilled with our being in the middle east when there is probably a fair amount of animosity and resentment going back 20 years to the war between Afghanistan and Russia. I believe we need to help US first, before committing hundreds of millions of dollars to other countries, even if it happens to be a political offering. I guess that unless someone in Washington starts demonstrating fiscal responsibility, we aren't going to get out of this recession any time soon.
• United States
22 Oct 12
I had a discussion regarding war bonds and was shocked to learn just how much we spent in WW2! It seems that it's pretty well split down the middle on what political party is occupying the White House during a 'war'. I'm pretty sure that it might be the Republicans have been the big spenders over the last forty years (Reagan's Cold War and nuclear arms race for eight years didn't help, nor does the Bush's 9-year Gulf War fiasco). Why do we constantly have to prove that we (the USA) have the biggest ones?
• Australia
22 Oct 12
I'd be fascinated to see a comparison of military budgets between Democrat and Republican administrations. Dubya's military spending doesn't surprise me at all, I always thought he watched too many John Wayne movies when he was young, and I suspect the comparison might show that John Wayne clonism is fairly common among Republican presidents. Lash
@millertime (1394)
• United States
22 Oct 12
If you're trying to say the Republicans spend more and tax more than the Democrats, you're wrong, generally speaking. The Democrat party typically wants to increase the size and scope of government, have government control more and do more, which results in higher taxes or higher deficits. I don't know where you got your numbers but statistics can be skewed to make them show just about anything depending on how they are presented. You also can't hold the president alone responsible for the spending as congress is the branch of government that controls the budgets and spending. Take a look at the charts on this website, http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html and you'll see that both parties can spend money, but you'll see that it shows all branches of government in power when spending increases or decreases. You'll also see that the present Democrat controlled administration has increased spending and the deficit more than any administration in history. Statistics can also be misleading since if you are only talking about the deficit, it really doesn't speak to the size of the budget itself or the real amount of spending. One website showed that actual spending increased the least with a Democrat in the white house but Republican control of both houses of congress. When it was the opposite situation, a Republican president and Democrats controlling both houses, the rate of spending grew at double the rate. Interestingly enough, when there was a Republican president and a split congress, spending increased even more. In short, there's no denying the fact that we need to get the government spending under control in this country. The Obama administration and the Democrats have demonstrated they will not do it, so we need to look elsewhere. It may end up that both of the major parties will not do it, so maybe the answer will be found outside of our two parties, but we need to find the answer and soon.
• Australia
22 Oct 12
The IMF, and I understand that Republicans often don't think much of that organisation for all that it is the major economic organisation in the world, has recently accepted that austerity measures in the current economic climate are a disaster waiting to happen. Just look at Greece and Spain. They are stronlgy recommending a return to Keynsian economics, perhaps for once allowing that to work without interference, and are beginning to seriously question the growth imperative. That means, effectively, that downsizing doesn't work, it's like trying to put out a fire by throwing petrol onto it. Lash
• Australia
23 Oct 12
And your qualifications for this opinion are? As opposed to the members of the IMF? Lash
• United States
23 Oct 12
I don't agree with the IMF that Keynesian economics is the way to go. The major flaw in it is that it depends on the people in government being smart enough to administer it to regulate a free market. I don't believe they are up to the task. Government doesn't do anything well, least of all running a free market. Secondly, Keynesian theory advocates government spending during recessions to bring up the economy. The problem there is, once the government starts spending money, they never stop. Even after recovery from the recession, they just want to keep spending that money. They never want to decrease back to a normal level. You say that downsizing doesn't work, so what's the answer? Just keep increasing the size of government and the amount of spending forever? At some point, it becomes unsustainable. The budget is already so large that it can't be paid for with taxes and if they just keep printing more and more money, it will be devalued to worthless. There is incredible waste in government. There are government agencies that could be downsized or eliminated. Huge amounts of money could be saved just by making it more efficient, eliminating redundancy and pure waste, not only in the federal government, but the state and local levels as well. It just has to stop. I don't see how such a huge national debt and deficit spending can be good for our economy so I certainly can't see how spending even more will solve that problem. You say that downsizing is like trying to put out a fire by throwing petrol on it, but Keynesian economics is like trying to put out a pile of burning money by throwing more money on it.
@natliegleb (5175)
• India
20 Oct 12
the gdp is in the decline,i must say its a good analysis ,keep it up and you rock,i think we need a change in term for sure
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@vandana7 (98834)
• India
20 Oct 12
Wars are expensive..and some seem to be in rush to wage wars.
• Australia
20 Oct 12
All of those American administrations have been involved in financing wars since 1943 with very few gaps, so although the war machine uses up a big proportion of those bugets that doesn't alter the comparisons at all. Lash
• United States
23 Oct 12
A democrat, President Kennedy began the Vietnam War, LBJ intensified it. And Nixon, a Republican brought the boys home from Vietnam. - Getting involved with the Korean War was an act of the United Nations. And the president at the time was Harry Truman a democrat. - The US was involved in several NATO and UN conflicts during the Clinton administration, such as the war in Kosovo (Operation Allied Force), the Somalia / Mogadishu event, and several other miltary operations. Our esteemed liberal press just doesn't make such a ruckus over it when it's a Democrat administration.. http://articles.usa-people-search.com/content-facts-of-the-korean-war.aspx http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswars1900s/tp/The-Korean-War.htm http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Yugoslavia/BillClintonsWar_Yugo.html But misinformation is what happens when a political interest and party has influence over education, and, or the news reporting agencies.
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