Is our ultimate destiny rooted in our faith, or in our Karma, in God, or in sin?

And yet, the free will still exists under God's umbrella. So, in a way, God still sort of controls, what comes into our lives, or if he pokes larger holes into the fabric of the umbrella, to let more through to us, or not. If we take this further, we even have the "free will" to rebel, or to reject God, as Satan did, but even he, somewhere along the journey, must be fitting into God's master plan, somewhere, somehow, as God, to my mind, does not allow counter plans to ever ultimately thwart his own plans.

@innertalks That I agree because as my father told me before that even Satan is afraid of God but God gave him permission to put evil into this world but with a condition. I forget what the condition was. So yes, there is a master plan that God made for us.

@mlgen1037 Satan is still on "speaking" terms with God too, as the story in the Old Testament proves about Satan tempting Job. This is an interesting read from the book of Job, chapter 1, verses 6 to 12. {One day the heavenly beings* came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan* also came among them. The Lord said to Satan,* ‘Where have you come from?’ Satan* answered the Lord, ‘From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.’ The Lord said to Satan,* ‘Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and turns away from evil.’ Then Satan* answered the Lord, ‘Does Job fear God for nothing? Have you not put a fence around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.’ The Lord said to Satan,* ‘Very well, all that he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against him!’ So Satan* went out from the presence of the Lord.}

Yes, that's putting it in a nutshell!! (Or putting it the other way around, God gets to know himself through us knowing ourselves within him, as him, in him.) You more simply stated it though. I tend to speak more in circles...LOL...

@Starmaiden Thanks. Here is the link to the Rabbi's statement. It is written in conclusion to his short story, which is well worth the read too.

@innertalks

@innertalks That's what the teaching tells us and i do believe. God has his plans and we just have to do things right in our ways, we can pray and ask for His guidance. In His time we can see everything is perfect.

@chavezrmc Yes, God's plans must come to fruition in the end. I believe that too. It says in the Christian Bible, that God's thoughts are not our thoughts. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD." Isaiah, chapter 55, verse 8. So, from this, I would say, that it would be very hard for us to understand God's plan for us, I expect. He thinks differently than we do.

Yes, I have read those encouraging statements from the Christian Bible too. It means, I think, that we preexisted our birth here, and so it also implies, I would say, that some part of us will live on, that this life is not the end, and that we will meet God, again, after this life again too.

It's a difficult question, the idea of an ultimate destiny. We could talk of an ultimate destiny for individuals, or a collective ultimate destiny that God might have in mind for all of us, but then again, maybe destiny is open-ended. It seems to be open-ended right now, unless, there is an endpoint, when God's own plan for an ultimate destiny will finally be "pushed through", as the Bible seems to infer will occur as the second coming of Jesus Christ. It seems like you are saying that our ultimate destiny ultimately depends on our own actions. Do you think God would leave something as important as an "ultimate" destiny just up to us, given we would probably mess his plans up? Or would he have a plan B in place, and so would God give some of us a second chance, after a spell, in "detention", or "purgatory", as the Catholic church thinks happens? Has God got any ultimate destiny in mind for his creation, or not? Are we on a journey, or not? Ultimacy implies finality, and I would say that God's world and his love never ends. The journey will go on forever, and not one drop of water will be lost or misplaced in the end, from his great ocean of love.

@1hopefulman Yes, thanks. I would agree with that. And it is largely up to us if we get included then in the general destiny, or not, depending on our own choice that we make regarding our own ultimate personal destiny.

@innertalks That's what I understand. In order for things to work out well for all, God has to have certain standards and we need to embrace those standards.

Thanks siva. The Christian Bible implies a few times that there is such a pecking order, or hierarchy in Heaven. Is there a hierarchy in heaven? There is only one God, of course, and this would point to all other souls, beings, angels, etc playing their own role under him, sort of in subservience to him, but not being subservient, in the sense of them only being slaves. They freely act from love as they realise God's love is what powers all else into being.

@Shiva49 Yes, we need to tread softly at times, and not force our way through, as every wrong action, will bring its consequences to us.

@innertalks Yes, how we go about our lives here will matter in the end. We should own up to our actions and that is fair dinkum - siva

Thank you. The topic does seem to be interesting to a lot of people, I think.

@Jessabuma Thank you again.

@innertalks yes I think so dear friend

Yes, God does call and feed, and meet our needs, hoping we will take heed, to grow the seed of his love, inside of ourselves. Thanks for sharing that experience in the temple.

@prakashj256 Thanks.

@innertalks true..indeed