Sometimes You Have to Wonder
By Four Walls
@FourWalls (66562)
United States
September 8, 2024 9:11pm CST
The other night I was doing what I do best: getting lost in a rabbit hole online. This particular thing was brought about by the visit to the Mother Jones memorial in Mount Olive, Illinois. She was a tireless champion for workers’ rights, especially when it came to coal miners.
The worst coal mining disaster in American history was the Monongah (West Virginia) Mining Disaster, which happened at the Fairmont Coal Company #6 and #8 mines on December 6, 1907. The “official” death toll is 362; however, there were many more because of lax regulations at the time, which included the use of children in the mines.
The town wasn’t very big. Even today, it has a population of less than 1,100. You can see what the deaths of nearly 400 men would do to a town. Now, you’d think that a disaster like that would unite a community, not unlike the way the country united in the aftermath of 9/11. Oh, no. And, sometimes, you have to wonder.
The miners were a diverse group of individuals, many of the immigrants from Italy and Poland. Both countries had (and still have) a strong Catholic tradition. Because of language barriers, I would suppose, the small town had a Polish Catholic parish, St. Stanislaus Kostka (which closed in 1974), and an Italian parish, Our Lady of Pompeii (also closed in 1974).
Same religion. You may know that the word “catholic” means “universal,” so these people had the same faith. Just a different language. (And, back then, masses were still in Latin, so technically they did NOT have “different languages.”)
With that background, here’s what I found on page 14 of an online 1908 report on the Monongah disaster:
At the time of the explosion both the Italian and Polish Catholic Churches had cemeteries immediately adjoining, separated by a wire fence. At the very start, the men at work in these cemeteries were admonished by the representatives of these two churches to be very careful not to allow any member of the Italian church to be buried in the Polish side, or vice versa.
Yeah, in death, two Catholics who had lived together, worked together, and died together couldn’t be buried together because someone thought it was wrong.
I can understand different religions wanting separate cemeteries. With some faiths that are vehemently opposed to iconography you could understand loved ones not wanting to visit the grave near where statues stand. And, by the same token, many faiths consider burial sites “sacred ground” and consecrated by their faith. The notion that the church didn’t want non-Catholics buried in the cemetery (Mount Calvary Cemetery) is understandable.
HOWEVER…having issues with someone who practiced the same religion????
Yeah, sometimes you just have to wonder.
The photo is a bumper sticker that was in the Cozy Dog Diner in Springfield, Illinois on Route 66.
13 people like this
13 responses
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
In contrast, back in the darkest days of segregation in America, tornadoes caused devastation to the point where a number of newspapers reported that people were taken to hospitals without regard for their skin color (such as whites being treated at the “Negro hospital” after the tornado in St Louis in 1927).
Simply nuts.
5 people like this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
@TheHorse — I’m sure! They’re also turning gay because, as Anita Bryant told us, “homosexuals do not reproduce, they recruit!”
2 people like this
@LadyDuck (469324)
• Switzerland
9 Sep
I know, it is sad, but this is what always happens with religions, the facade is all about love and working together and being brothers, but the nationality always prevails over the religion.
I am Roman Catholic, I hated when Pope Montini abolished Latin and the Mass was the spoken language will be the principal language of the Mass. I refused to learn the prayers in Italian, I still pray in Latin and I think he made a BIG mistake.
3 people like this
@BarBaraPrz (46809)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
9 Sep
Pope Montini? Never heard Paul VI referred to by his family name.
1 person likes this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
@LadyDuck — the switch to the vernacular from Latin is a big bone of contention in America (and I would imagine elsewhere). And the Eastern Orthodox Church also shows that propensity for nationality first. Thank you for the insight.
2 people like this
@LadyDuck (469324)
• Switzerland
9 Sep
@BarBaraPrz I was born in Milan (Italy) and Montini was the ArchiBishop of Milan before becoming Paul VI. Anyway in Italy we call the Popes by their family name often. Papa Roncalli (the Good Pope) instead of Giovanni XXIII.
3 people like this
@BarBaraPrz (46809)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
9 Sep
Well, sermons and confessions were not conducted in Latin...
3 people like this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
That’s true, hadn’t thought of that. (And that wasn’t now, where they have habla Español times for confession, so they wouldn’t have had a Polish-speaking priest on Friday and an Italian-speaking priest on Saturday, or vice versa.)
3 people like this
@wolfgirl569 (103884)
• Marion, Ohio
9 Sep
Sadly that is religions. Many of the worlds problems would end if religious ideas were not involved
2 people like this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
I don’t totally agree. I think the world’s problems would end if people would live their religious ideas themselves instead of worrying about if you are living their religious ideas.
2 people like this
@wolfgirl569 (103884)
• Marion, Ohio
9 Sep
@FourWalls That would help a lot too.
1 person likes this
@TheHorse (216265)
• Walnut Creek, California
9 Sep
@FourWalls Yep. And of course I've seen the "mantra" it refers to. I bet some non-English speakers here have not.
1 person likes this
@Deepizzaguy (101103)
• Lake Charles, Louisiana
9 Sep
I know what you mean about people sharing the same faith but different nations of birth.
3 people like this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
It would just seem to me that one’s faith in God would take precedence over one’s nation, but we’re having an uptick in nationalism here, so it really isn’t new.
2 people like this
@TheHorse (216265)
• Walnut Creek, California
9 Sep
@FourWalls And a downtick in adhering to religious principles.
2 people like this
@RebeccasFarm (89161)
• Arvada, Colorado
9 Sep
Haha love that bumper sticker..so true.
As far as your topic goes..I am a stickler for not being buried by anyone at all.
I had enough noise in life.
Wouldn't want to have to get up out the grave and move again.
2 people like this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
My dad’s ashes are buried on his brother’s farm in very rural Kentucky. Last time I visited I had to be driven back there on a four-wheeler. (And no, you can’t have the next tree over. )
1 person likes this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
I don’t think there were any animosities between Poland and Italy in those days.
1 person likes this
@RasmaSandra (78640)
• Daytona Beach, Florida
10 Sep
There are things that just leave you speechless and are not understandable,
1 person likes this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
11 Sep
I wonder if the people who were being so dogmatic about that thought there were Italian and Polish sections of Heaven?
1 person likes this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
I haven’t found any newspaper articles mentioning any animosity at the time. Grief is a universal language, too.
2 people like this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
9 Sep
I realize that there are/were “national” neighborhoods (Mike Krzyzewski talked about growing up in a Polish neighborhood in Chicago, for instance), but I just didn’t imagine it translating to a cemetery for the same religion.
@JESSY3236 (19774)
• United States
10 Sep
I think people thought people from other countries as less than and maybe that's why they had issues. People were racist and be religious too.
1 person likes this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
10 Sep
I can agree; however, both groups — the Polish and the Italian — were immigrants.
1 person likes this
@FourWalls (66562)
• United States
10 Sep
Just one of those things I’ll never understand.
1 person likes this