A Sincere Question For Democrats

United States
October 17, 2008 4:27pm CST
First let me say that I may not reply to each post quickly. I am not at my computer much over the weekend but I will be back on Monday. If you spend anytime at all here on myLot reading the Political posts, you will find a trend. This trend is very one sided and I would like the opinion of Democrats on this trend since it centers on your posts. PLEASE do not post anything hateful or sarcastic or in any way rude. I am asking a sincere question and I am looking for real answers. If you cannot do that, please don't post. When Republicans post about McCain, they usually say something like, "I am voting for McCain but he wasn't my first choice." or "I am voting for him but I disagree with him on this issue or that issue." Personally I disagree with him on a number of issues; immigration, border security, this bailout, buying back bad mortgages etc. I am still going to vote for him since I feel he is more honest and has more experience suited for the job. But one thing that I have not come across, are Democrats, liberals or any other Obama supporter claim that they disagree with him on anything. They are not troubled by his shallow level of experience. No one is at all concerned with his association with Ayers and Wright. No one is bothered by his lack of honesty about saying that he would meet with the President of Iran without preconditions then denying it repeatedly, most recently during the debate. No one mentions his ties to ACORN. Now again, please don't get angry because I mention those things. I am not attacking him nor do I want this post to be a debate of those issues. There are many other discussions out there where we can do that. I just don't understand how none of his supporters are even a little bit concerned about those things. Sure you can defend each one of those, just like I could defend McCain's border security policy. But if I did that I would be denying my own convictions. So here are the questions for Obama supporters: 1. Is there anything about Obama that concerns you? Anything that raises doubt in your mind about him as president? 2. If you do have concerns with him, why don't you voice them? 3. If you do have concerns, are you denying your own personal convictions by supporting him? 4. Or do you support everything he has ever done and all of his proposals? Thank you.
6 people like this
8 responses
@evanslf (484)
17 Oct 08
I will respond to your post the best way I can, though I hope not to get flamed in the process, because that certainly has happened in the past (not from you though)! The main reason why I am supporting Obama is pretty simple: he opposed the Iraq war. I have posted previously as to why I think the Iraq war was a total unnecessary disaster but I don't wish to go into the details here, I'll probably only get flamed for my pains. For me, that was the starting point, any politician who supported the Iraq war I virtually automatically rule out. Hence why I did not support Hillary. Hence why I do not support John McCain (even though I would have supported him back in 2000 had he been he Republican nominee against Al Gore, so this shows I am not a totally biased leftie as some would claim). Even more important than the past of course is the future. By Hillary's and McCain's statements, it is clear to me that they have failed to acknoledge the mistakes that led to that war and they propose the same sabre-rattling foreign policy which has been in my view disastrous for this country. Obama proposes a radical break from this, jaw-jaw and not war-war, and I believe he will restore the US reputation in the world. So for me, the Iraq war is such a big issue that this was my central reason for supporting Obama. That said, I do have some concerns. I am not fooled into believing that Obama is a messiah, indeed I am so cynical of politicians that I would not have been surprised that if Obama had been a US senator back in 2002, he might well have voted for it to help his career. His 'present' votes show a politician who is very wary of committing himself and he was fortunate that he was not a US senator back in 2002 as he would have been forced to decide, and he might well have voted for the war, like all the other aspiring Dem US senators who were keen not to be seen as 'soft' on security and therefore followed Bush into this disastrous adventure. In addition, though Obama is accused of being far too the left, I am far from convinced that that is the case. Many supporters support him because of his anti Iraq war stance, but fail to see that he has adopted some quite centrist if not right wing positions. So I also have my doubts whether he will be the 'great liberal hope' that a good number of liberals believe him to be. On other issues, such as lack of honesty, etc, my answer is simple: he is a politician! They all twist the truth and don't talk straight. McCain is just the same. And so are the others. Sorry about being cynical but that's how I view things and so I view this as par for the course and hence politicians's disonesty cancel each other out in my mind. Anyway, at least I hope I have answered your question.
• United States
18 Oct 08
Ummm, my understanding is that Obama also voted for the war in Iraq, then changed his mind when it became favorable to do so. Are you saying he never voted to go to Iraq when most of Congress did?
• United States
18 Oct 08
Thanks for commenting evanslf. But if you notice you did the same thing that almost all of the pro-Obama posts do. They do not address any of the major concerns with him. I am not criticizing but that is the trend that I am noticing. Obama supporters do not ever express any DIS-satisfaction with him. Do any of the things that I mentioned bother you about him? Are there any other stances or comments that he has made that concern you in the least?
1 person likes this
@evanslf (484)
18 Oct 08
Hello Gardian - regarding the specific points about ACORN, lack of experience, Ayers and Wright then my answer is that no, these things don't particularly concern me. Regarding his dishonesty, though I didn't answer the particular context of Amedinajad, if he is denying this then that may well be the case. As I did point out, dishonesty and politics is par for the course, it's what I have come to expect from national politicians and McCain has done the same. I did however in my previous response point out my concerns in that Obama's present votes troubled me as they show someone who is wary of committing himself so that a particular vote can't come back to haunt him: something he was doing to further his political career, no doubt. I also pointed out that I suspect he will not be the great liberal hope that so many liberals think he will be (as I said I can see Obama taking some right wing stances on some issues). And yes I pointed out that he, like all the others, twist the truth: policians do not equal honest in my view. Regarding thedogshrink's point about Obama voting for the Iraq war, no he didn't as he was not part of the US senate back in autumn of 2002 when the vote took place to give President Bush congressional authority to go to war. So Obama did oppose the war at the time. However, again my usual cynicism comes into play in that I did point out in my original post that HAD Obama been a member of the US Senate back in 2002, I suspect that he may have voted for the war as so many of the aspiring Dem US Senators did (for instance Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, all of whom had presidential aspirations, voted for the war as they did not want to be seen as 'soft' on issues of national security). I note that it was those Dem Senators who did not have such presidential aspirations who tended to vote against the Iraq war resolution of 2002 (eg Byrd for instance and other older senators who no longer aspired to be president). To clarify, about a quarter of the US Senate voted against the war I believe (roughly 25 Senators or so). So basically the Dem senators were split on the war. My thanks to you both for your polite replies. Nice to have a civilised discussion on Mylot with people whose political views are different from my own, a breath of fresh air for a change!
1 person likes this
@Bd200789 (2994)
• United States
17 Oct 08
I am voting for Obama. 1. Yes, I disagree with his position on the bailout. 2. I do voice them. I posted about the bailout, saying I was disappointed that he voted for it. 3. No, both McCain and Obama voted for it. 4. There are other things I don't agree with that he supports, but he best fits my beliefs. I honestly can't understand why you support McCain, but I respect your opinion. I'm glad you respect mine, too.
4 people like this
• United States
18 Oct 08
Thanks for commenting on my question.
2 people like this
@lillake (1630)
• United States
18 Oct 08
I don't hang out much here in the political section, so I can't speak of whether or not many people here say or do not say they agree with everything of Obama. I know that at least 85% of the political sites that I do frequent for news and ideas there is often discussion on the specifics of Obama's policies that many do disagree with. No politician is going to be 100% of what anyone needs. There are a few things that I don't agree with of Obama's. Despite the "most liberal senator" title he's often given, I find him far too centerist/moderate for many of my beliefs. I don't support FISA like he does, and I disagree that Clean Coal is a viable option. I'm more Liberal on abortion that he is, and I don't think he'll be strong enough on protecting Roe v. Wade from being chipped away even more. But, I don't like any of the 3rd party candidates and McCain is a complete polar opposite on all of my beliefs. So I'm an Obama supporter, and proud of it.
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Oct 08
Thanks for the post lillake. It appears you are the exception. I appreciate that you know your issues and know where the candidates stand on them.
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
17 Oct 08
I am independent, but I'll answer the questions anyway, since I think you should have addressed them to Obama supporters instead of just "Democrats". Especially in this election, the percentage of supporters the Democratic candidate has who aren't Democrats is probably the highest it's been in quite a while. "1. Is there anything about Obama that concerns you? Anything that raises doubt in your mind about him as president?" I don't agree with him on everything, but I have no doubt he'd be a fine President. When it comes to the major issues and things that matter the most to me, he makes a lot of sense. Plus, he's not really a hawkish guy, which I think is extremely important in our next leader, after having spent so much time with our troops in Iraq for no good reason. "2. If you do have concerns with him, why don't you voice them?" Because there are bigger fish to fry. To be honest, the moment I learned of the speech he made the day the Iraq War Resolution was passed, he was my pick. Considering what a huge money hole that is, and how in the hole (to use a similar analogy) we are in general these days, I think that in terms of national security AND economy, being someone who had the right judgment about Iraq from day one is a HUGE plus. I could disagree with Obama on everything else, and still support him just because of this. "3. If you do have concerns, are you denying your own personal convictions by supporting him?" Not really. I realize that I'm never going to find a candidate who's 100% in agreement with me, so I don't feel like I'm 'betraying myself' in voting for someone if they disagree with me on this or that. Some things are just more important, and my 'personal convictions' may not be someone else's. I'm not a one or two-issue voter--I consider the package. Question 4 is redundant, so I'm not going to bother with it.
3 people like this
• United States
18 Oct 08
Do you have a link to that speech? I'd like to read it if it's online.
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Oct 08
Absolutely. The entire speech is on Obama's website, and it's also transcribed in its entirety on Wikisource. You can tell he really 'got it', even back then, before any invasion had occurred. It's kind of chilling to reread it (or read it for the first time, as you are about to do) even today. Here are the links: http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Oct 08
Thanks for the comments ClarusVisum. I guess I did not phrase my questions properly because your post again falls into the trend that I have noticed. Obama supporters do not express any concerns about Senator Obama. I still can't figure out why. Does your "bigger fish to fry" comment mean that you are primarily a one issue voter? So all the other issues become secondary and not worth trifling over? That is not a criticism, just a question seeking understanding. I can tell you why I usually express my concerns with McCain's positions that I disagree with. It is my hope that somehow he will respond to my concerns. He seems to have moved a bit on the border security issue. I hope that is because he has heard from enough of us on that issue. So why do you think that Obama supporters don't vocalize/write about the stances and policies that they DISagree with him on? (Oh and I directed it to Democrats simply to generate interest and to keep it short.)
@redchase (347)
18 Oct 08
ok im still green to all this political stuff and this is the first election that i can actually vote in so bare with me. i honestly dont think that everyone agrees 100% on everything with any politician, theres always something that we think needs to be enforced more or needs to be more lax. anyway on the main things that matter to me, he's good. as for experience, its not all they want to make it out to be. yeah i mean it helps to know what you're doing and the guy has a general idea of whats going on but i think whats leading me towards him is that he has a different view than the people who've been leading the country for the past few years. experience doesnt mean much look at lincoln, fdr, and clinton, good presidents little experience. ok and being guilty by association isnt something to great to be judged on. ok your friend could become a serial killer but that doesnt mean you're like him. plus ayers has been fine for years since then so who cares? and as for acorn, according to my research, john mccain was also involved with them. as for the iranian president thing, the guy is human so he's bound to lie, you also have to remember he's a politician. im sure john mccain isnt a saint either. to sum it up, i just like him more than mccain and i think that sometimes you just have to admit when things are going wrong and you have to take a new approach to things and learn from them, no?
• United States
18 Oct 08
Thanks for the comment redchase and welcome to the world of politics. You did it too. You told me the reasons that you are supporting Obama, but you did not share any of the things that bother you about him. Are there any? (I promised that I would not argue points on this post, but let me encourage you to check your facts about the experience of Lincoln, FDR and Clinton vs Obama. Also the ACORN connections.)
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Oct 08
i will no doubt vote for obama not because i am particularly trusting in everything he says no politician should be trusted that much but my vote is actualy a vote against the republicans more than a vote for Obama!I have often spoken of my concerns The fact is there is not much choice for us this election and i truly feel im voting for the lesser of two evils!God help us this country could not survive 8 more years of bush isms which we will have if the republicans retain power!
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Oct 08
Thanks for posting and welcome to myLot.
1 person likes this
• United States
20 Oct 08
Then "welcome BACK!"
1 person likes this
• United States
19 Oct 08
ive been with my lot for many years as rev dauphinee till i was hacked last week and all my passwords and names screwed up but thanks for the welcome anyway
1 person likes this
@Hatley (163781)
• Garden Grove, California
22 Oct 08
hi guardian at least you arenot saying all democrats are evil and puppets of satan, as some seem to suggest. I have some 'doubts of both candidates,but I do like most of obama's stand on most of the issues and after weighing how much I dislike allof McCain's stands, I voted for whom I thought would be the better choice. I have a few concerns on both candidates but much fewer on Obama. McCain is too old, and looks to me to be a good candidate for a heart attack,andtoo wealthy to have any sympathy for us working class and middleclass people.my onlyconcern with obama is his inexperience but that can be mastered in time. I hesitate to voice anything here as there are people on mylot who become almost insane when you dont agree with them.
• United States
28 Oct 08
Thanks for posting Hatley, you evil puppet of satan! Lol! Just kidding.
@Sheepie (3112)
• United States
18 Oct 08
He doesn't support gay marriage, and I'm totally not into that, but McCain doesn't support it either, as I remember he appeared on Ellen, who recently married her girlfriend in California, which made that show kind of interesting. I'm not really paying all of my attention to the election at this point in time, but that sticks out the most for me. Oh, and yes I am an Obama supporter. Which reminds me, I highly appreciate that you called us Democrats, and Obama SUPPORTERS, not Obama FANS, which is just so condescending really. Thank you so much for that.
• United States
18 Oct 08
Thanks for the comments Sheepie. I appreciate you sharing your insight. Are you primarily a one issue voter? It's funny, someone else commented that I should have addressed "Obama supporters" rather than Democrats since he viewed himself as an independent. Oh well, can't please everyone.